Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

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allanh
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Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread post by allanh » February 1st, 2009, 10:59 pm

I have just completed the game, FSN including all the Tiger dojo scenes. I watched anime prior (that's how I got hooked in the first place).
I just have some random thoughts the endings of each scenario (routes) and characters of heroines.

► Show Spoiler
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Anyway, thanks for reading through my ramblings. Just a way to express my appreciation of this great Visual Novel.
Last edited by allanh on February 1st, 2009, 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread post by Mkilbride » February 1st, 2009, 11:05 pm

You don't understand Visual Novels at all if you believe your third request.

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Unread post by allanh » February 1st, 2009, 11:08 pm

Mkilbride wrote:You don't understand Visual Novels at all if you believe your third request.
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I don't think Visual Novels are incompatible with some amount of animation.

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Unread post by Kid-Wolf » February 1st, 2009, 11:09 pm

Well to respond to this it would probably be best to wait for Fate/Hollow Ataraxia to be translated before saying this should be redone.
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Oh yeah if you want try and play Relta Nua (the PS2 version) if you want the animations of certain parts.
- Finding my way through this garden is rather unbearable, but if it is to keep the one I adore company I will endure it for her sake, and her sake alone.

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Unread post by Gunbladeuser » February 1st, 2009, 11:34 pm

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Unread post by Shourai » February 2nd, 2009, 1:30 am

Well, as far as I'm concerned, I'm just going to respond to the points 1 to 6:
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Unread post by Keeper of Gil's Vault » February 2nd, 2009, 2:30 am

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Unread post by Shourai » February 2nd, 2009, 2:45 am

@Keeper of Gil's Vault: There's nothing wrong with what you said, yes, but you must understand that "yandere" heroines like Sakura isn't the type to gain universal affection. I even think that TYPE MOON itself seemed to anticipate this fact. That's why she got lotsa of "moe moe" in F/ha, to compensate with what happened in HF.

It's good that Sakura has her own supporter; you don't have to understand each and every person's opinion on why they hate Sakura now, do you? :wink:

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Unread post by Kid-Wolf » February 2nd, 2009, 2:49 am

Shourai wrote:@Keeper of Gil's Vault: There's nothing wrong with what you said, yes, but you must understand that "yandere" heroines like Sakura isn't the type to gain universal affection. I even think that TYPE MOON itself seemed to anticipate this fact. That's why she got lotsa of "moe moe" in F/ha, to compensate with what happened in HF.

It's good that Sakura has her own supporter; you don't have to understand each and every person's opinion on why they hate Sakura now, do you? :wink:
Yeah but for some reason they kind of overcompensated for the yanderie side of things by making her too moe moe. Although you're right F/HA did make her into a better character from what I could tell so far. Although I may argue otherwise once it is translated of course.
- Finding my way through this garden is rather unbearable, but if it is to keep the one I adore company I will endure it for her sake, and her sake alone.

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Unread post by allanh » February 2nd, 2009, 3:09 am

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Unread post by Kid-Wolf » February 2nd, 2009, 3:19 am

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- Finding my way through this garden is rather unbearable, but if it is to keep the one I adore company I will endure it for her sake, and her sake alone.

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Unread post by Mkilbride » February 2nd, 2009, 3:31 am

Kid-Wolf wrote:
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She's called a Emo Stalker.

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Unread post by Kikuchi » February 2nd, 2009, 3:45 am

Mkilbride wrote:
Kid-Wolf wrote:
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She's called a Emo Stalker.
She reminds me of Sacchin, if you ask me. :P

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Unread post by Unkind » February 2nd, 2009, 3:58 am

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Unread post by that one guy » February 2nd, 2009, 3:59 am

Unkind wrote:
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This. I can't understand why you people don't like her. It is beyond me.

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Unread post by Kid-Wolf » February 2nd, 2009, 6:31 am

Kikuchi wrote:
Mkilbride wrote:
Kid-Wolf wrote:
► Show Spoiler

She's called a Emo Stalker.
She reminds me of Sacchin, if you ask me. :P
Wait how did Sacchin get into the Fate game storylines now?

Isn't it sad Sacchin, no one wants you to have a route even in the Fate Visual Novel.

As for disliking Sakura, it is probably because they heavily overplayed the moe factor card for most of her storyline.
- Finding my way through this garden is rather unbearable, but if it is to keep the one I adore company I will endure it for her sake, and her sake alone.

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Unread post by allanh » February 2nd, 2009, 6:59 am

excuse my ignorance, but what does "moe" mean?

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Unread post by Atriel » February 2nd, 2009, 7:10 am

You can take it as a synonym of cute.
If you disagree, you are wrong.

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Unread post by Kikuchi » February 2nd, 2009, 7:10 am

allanh wrote:excuse my ignorance, but what does "moe" mean?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moe_(slang)

Atriel : cute is part of moe, but moe isn't always cute, if you get what I mean. 8)
Kid-Wolf wrote:Wait how did Sacchin get into the Fate game storylines now?

Isn't it sad Sacchin, no one wants you to have a route even in the Fate Visual Novel.
Well, from what I can figure, the way they stalk and drool over the main guy is the same. 8)
As for disliking Sakura, it is probably because they heavily overplayed the moe factor card for most of her storyline.
Ok, a bullseye right there. 8)

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Unread post by HeartCard » February 2nd, 2009, 5:11 pm

I got two FUCK YOUS for everyone:
► Show Spoiler
► Show Spoiler
Allanh:
FATE Ending:
I highly recommend you read Realta Nua for that "Better Ending" you seem to be longing for.
Realta nua's Fate route has a "Good" end which tacts on after the regular ending if your Saber score is high enough.
In that Saber and Shirou meet up in Avalon after Shirou dies.

UBW Good Ending:
I'm going to assume you skipped over the scenes.
Go back and re-read the last scenes after saber uses Scaliburger on the grail.
If you were going to get the GOOD ending, there will be a scene that was not there before.
You might have just considered Auto-Skip not to be working properly, or that you accidentally clicked "No" to the skip,
and CTRL'd through it.

The scene explains Saber has reason to exist in this world. She might have saved a TINY bit of mana because of that,
instead of just using it all in scaliburger.

By the way, unfortunately there was no way Saber could be the heroine in this route. Or it would have canceled out the point.
In this route, shirou must use his own strength and face his own strength.
If saber was the main heroine, he would not have lost her generally and so his growth could not happen in this route.
It's like the Crane Wing Scene in Heaven's Feel. As much as you want Shirou to be THAT awesome, it is not what can be
allowed as the result. Because if Crane Wing is used, Shirou dies and all is for nothing. Same if Saber is with shirou, he cannot grow enough.

Personally I think a better heroine for the UBW route would have been Illya. But those are personal thoughts...

Heaven's Feel:
*Shrug* This has always been my personal favourite.
I'm pretty sure your view on Sakura is about as clear and accurate as my "Hate Rin('s fanboys)" topic.
I'll do this in pointers:
1. Sakura was chosen for this route because she had the most involvement with it. The heroines remaining were Sakura, Rider, and Illya.
While anyone would have gladly had an Illya Route, Sakura would have made for a more dramatic route generally.
Rider had too little involvement with the "Deep" side of Fate, so it left it to Sakura and Illya.
I do not recall why Sakura was chosen over Illya, but I imagine it was due to character.
Illya recieved fair enough depth just by being a side-character. Sakura on the other hand received...no reveal on herself really.
2. Sakura's route is supposed to be the largest "Change". It is the "Adult" route. Fate:Child. UBW:Teenager. HF:Adult.
It is supposed to be the most dramatic, dark, and to show the largest change in the character as he reachs the maximum of his growth.
Obviously a True "Tsundere"(Going by the ORIGINAL term definition) character was perhaps the best choice.
3. As for her traits:
Jeolousy - Saber is a Knight and a "Noble" Figure, one who also previously dismantled her emotions from herself. Jeolous would not have
befitted such a character well I think. Rin does not show jeolous either. But that's because of who Rin is. She doesn't show her feelings much
and gets anything she wants if she can. If she can't, she'll give up on it. More importantly, Sakura is the only heroine with a Rival.
Saber didn't have one. Rin didn't have one. Sakura has Rin for sure. Saber is understood as a servant before a rival. But.
Rin is a clear and concrete rival to Sakura in her mind, no in reality as well.
I bring up a scene from Heaven's Feel where Rin reveals seeing Shirou for the first time, in the same place and same way Sakura first saw him.
Jeolous, yes, but not without reason. She says it in her VS Rin fights(both times):
Everything comes easy to Rin, but Sakura has to work hard. So Hard.
2. Which brings up my next point. I'd like to point out that Sakura is the only heroine who actually GAINS Shirou's love.
Seriously, think about it.
Shirou liked Rin before the storyline. And no matter what route you are in, Shirou always holds Rin in high regard.
Saber just POOF appears and Shirou almost INSTANTLY falls in love with her.
Sakura grows around and because of him. He notices her body, that's it. She has to earn his love throughout the story.
Even then that love isn't very concrete until the rain scene.
3. "Low sense of Morality" - Excuse me, what? Are you calling her a whore? Are you stupid or something?Let's see, either:
A. You're saying that enjoying sex proves you have low morality. In which case you just need to be *Censored for the inner child* and then dragged out into the field and *Moar censorship*, and then picked up and *Censorship III: In 3D!!* until you're so *Censorship 4: This time its personal* you can't ever *use a censor tag* again.
B. You're calling her a whore from the start. Which clearly proves you were not reading very well. Sakura feels ashamed and loathes herself prior to each sex scene before Shirou coerces her that it's fine because he wants her.
C. You're refering to Moral like a Commander. Into:Pride. In which case, the hell did you expect from a character who was *insert rape+torture speech that has been said 3 times this time, and will probably be used another 5 before the topic is locked*.

4. "Weak" - I find it funny that you call her that. In terms of Magic, I believe it came up that "Rin would win if we Fought, but my magic is stronger." in-game.
Unless you're refering to willpower. In which case, the girl was raped and tortured physically, mentally, and emotionally for most of her life. Discarded by her parents(From her perspective I imagine). All that, and then she still maintains herself for days upon days while the grail iz Charging itz Lazer. There are some who would consider her willpower far beyond impressive.
Certainly FAR beyond Saber's willpower to live. Not that Saber really has one...

5. "Selfish" - I actually laughed when I read this.
Saber : Ah the glorified Knight in Shining Hair. But even Saber is Selfish in many extents. She often rejects Shirou's ideas from the start, demanding her own plans over them, well...Saber's examples of "Selfishness" are low, but there are still minor traces of it and such.
Rin : I'm laughing as I write this. You called Sakura Selfish. Did you ever even THINK about Rin in comparison? If you had, you wouldn't have stated Sakura's selfishness as a fault. Rin's Selfishness makes it so no one would laugh if they saw an official picture of her stealing Saber's Throne for herself. It would fit too well to laugh.
Rin is a very selfish, very demanding, and so on. She's not that self-centered, but she is very selfish. It must and will be her way. She wants something, she takes it.
Another quality Rin shows more than Sakura is her Demented side. Rin taughts, teases, and mentally tortures most characters at her on common whim.
Sakura is a girl who lost her family and had everything else conceivable taken from her. Her right as a maiden, her body as a human, so much. Selfish?
Sakura is perhaps only slightly more selfish than Saber. The only thing she wants is Shirou. The only thing she hopes for and asks for is shirou. That's it.
She's not a "All or Nothing" person, she's a "Just This". Infact, you could compare her desire for shirou to Saber's for "The Holy Grail".


Honestly though, Sakura was my favourite Heroine. I was denied Illya, but Sakura does suffice.
I would say if there is a wonderous feature, it is the fact that she is perhaps the most honest of the heroines.
She also creates the most beefed up version of Shirou.

Though, perhaps I am biased.
I might enjoy Heaven's Feel more than the other routes because it is the true end of Fate/Stay Night.
It is what the sequel Fate/Hollow Ataraxia takes after.
And it is a route that does NOT create a fail Shirou(Fate) or Emo Shirou(UBW...Seriously. He{either shirou} cut himself{either shirou}. And wanted to kill himself{Archer}. Emo!!! We love you garcher, but you're a sexy emo servant).

In truth, I find the fact that the "Deep" side of Fate/Stay Night was combined into a single Route as very nice. Also nice is that it brings a concrete ending to the story "THIS is what happened." as opposed to something like Tsukihime which has too many very different endings to choose only one as the concrete ending.


Ah, I've typed too much. Oh well.


Two last minor things:

The whole "Dating" sim thing...Yeah no.
There have been two "Dates" in the Fate/Stay Night, one in Fate and one in UBW.
They're just too out of place.
And it's too cliche fail hentai-game style.
"The worlds ending! To save it you must seduce THIS chick so much the world magically lets you win!" *Facepalm*
I swear to god, if fate turns into every other crackjob hentai novel...I'll learn how to *Faceheel*.


About Animation:
Actually there's quite a bit of animation in Heaven's Feel that isn't in other routes.
I think the scene I noticed this most was when Dark Sakura FIRST appears(including her hyper awesome outfit and hair).
From then on I notice it in smaller but still present detail.

There's FAR more animation than nessessary in Fate/Stay Night. I need to remind you, this is a
Visual Novel.
You're still reading. And you're still supposed to be using your imagination.


P.S. : I'm hoping for the best in your favour.
This forum helped me learn I did not hate Rin. I loathed her fanboys, but not her.
I still dislike Rin, but I don't hate her. Unless a fanboy goes off on a OMGSOMOE rant, I'm generally fine with Rin.
Besides, in such cases these days they're in a position I can kick them out of the channel/game etc.
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