A question on Saber's history and character (SPOILERS!)

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A question on Saber's history and character (SPOILERS!)

Unread postby 13 Chain Blood Spider » February 1st, 2009, 8:38 pm

Ok, so I've played through the parts of the Fate route that reveal Saber's backstory, but I'm still confused: why did her knights claim that she "does not understand human emotions"? Did she alienate her people by being too perfect of a king or something?
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Unread postby Rikh » February 1st, 2009, 9:05 pm

to be a rightful king in her mind, she had to be cold and heartless to the enemy to protect the ones she cared about

at least thats what i understood from fate
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Unread postby sabata2 » February 1st, 2009, 11:10 pm

Cold, cruel, yet just.

In other words her mindset was that of the end justifies the means.

If she had to destroy one of her own towns to defeat an incoming army then she would, without a second thought.

This led the people to believe she had no emotions because she wouldn't value her own people's lives as anything more than a means to an end.


A king who doesn't care about his people's lives will keep his country alive.
A king who cares about his people's lives will almost certainly lose his country.

It's a contradiction in and of itself to be a "perfect" king.
Because regardless of how well you balance the two, you will always lose some on either side.
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Unread postby Shourai » February 2nd, 2009, 1:32 am

Let me just add a little something in this: besides being a perfect king wannabe (because she is not), Saber never loses her inner feminine / girl side.That's why she was filled with guilt and doubt, even killing her emotions when she was alive. The result? Job is not done. (destroyed by her own country, betrayed by some of her knights, etc, etc)
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Unread postby Watashimo » February 2nd, 2009, 2:03 am

Shourai wrote:Let me just add a little something in this: besides being a perfect king wannabe (because she is not), Saber never loses her inner feminine / girl side.That's why she was filled with guilt and doubt, even killing her emotions when she was alive. The result? Job is not done. (destroyed by her own country, betrayed by some of her knights, etc, etc)


But at least she didn't destroy her own country *cough* Gilgamesh *cough*
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Unread postby Rikh » February 2nd, 2009, 10:32 pm

I think the Fate Arc + UBW arc is also the Kiritsugu arc... You encounter a lot of that characters background in Saber and Archer
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Unread postby lolipedofin » February 3rd, 2009, 2:57 am

Rikh wrote:I think the Fate Arc + UBW arc is also the Kiritsugu arc... You encounter a lot of that characters background in Saber and Archer


Uhh... no thanx... You just give me a frightening imagination there... But yeah, no thanx... I passed on banging Kiritsugu...
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Unread postby Kikuchi » February 3rd, 2009, 2:58 am

lolipedofin wrote:
Rikh wrote:I think the Fate Arc + UBW arc is also the Kiritsugu arc... You encounter a lot of that characters background in Saber and Archer


Uhh... no thanx... You just give me a frightening imagination there... But yeah, no thanx... I passed on banging Kiritsugu...
Kiritsugu arc = Fate / Zero, duh. :lol:
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Re: A question on Saber's history and character (SPOILERS!)

Unread postby Levethix » February 3rd, 2009, 6:05 am

13 Chain Blood Spider wrote:Ok, so I've played through the parts of the Fate route that reveal Saber's backstory, but I'm still confused: why did her knights claim that she "does not understand human emotions"? Did she alienate her people by being too perfect of a king or something?


Just my take on it.
It was because she was willing to sacrifice people in order to save her country. Where the knights decided because they won(mainly because Saber killed off a villiage by draining it of resources) that they didn't need to sacrifice in order to win, They brought this to Saber who rejected their idea. Because of that rejection and her need to contiune to sacrifice to win they thought she did not have human emotions. Because what sort of human can kill other humans for victory?
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Unread postby madcow305 » February 24th, 2009, 7:15 pm

I find it kind of weird that Saber, who's goal for most of the game is to get the Holy Grail so she can redo the king's selection, would entrust the fate of her country to chance.

She has no idea what kind of person would be selected if she didn't pull the sword out. Yet, she's willing to risk Britain falling into the hands of an even worse king than Saber was. It doesn't make sense.
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Unread postby Kid-Wolf » February 24th, 2009, 7:22 pm

Well you have to understand that Saber orignally regretted what she did and did not do during her time as the king. She wanted to know who could run her country even better then her. Although she later finds out that sometimes it's best not to change everything from your past.

In the end of Fate she was satisfied on finding out what she did in her life wasn't a bad thing after all. Although there is the posibility of another Grail War to take place and surely enough she will return to fight in it once more.
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Re: A question on Saber's history and character (SPOILERS!)

Unread postby Soulshade » February 24th, 2009, 7:32 pm

13 Chain Blood Spider wrote:Ok, so I've played through the parts of the Fate route that reveal Saber's backstory, but I'm still confused: why did her knights claim that she "does not understand human emotions"? Did she alienate her people by being too perfect of a king or something?


what im guessing is that the knights believe the perfect king has to be cold, cruel, heartless etc to the enemy yet just wif her people. In other words sabers ppl wanted someone like kiritsugu as king
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Unread postby Keeper of Gil's Vault » February 25th, 2009, 7:22 pm

Kid-Wolf wrote:Well you have to understand that Saber orignally regretted what she did and did not do during her time as the king. She wanted to know who could run her country even better then her. Although she later finds out that sometimes it's best not to change everything from your past.

In the end of Fate she was satisfied on finding out what she did in her life wasn't a bad thing after all. Although there is the posibility of another Grail War to take place and surely enough she will return to fight in it once more.


Well, Sabre did get closure at the end of Fate and chose death rather than continuing the contract with the World. Since she no longer desired the Grail, her soul was freed from the cycle of participating in Grail Wars. Arturia is guaranteed to be placed in the Throne of Heroes, so whether or not she will be pulled from there to join other Grail Wars, we will never know.
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Unread postby Kid-Wolf » February 25th, 2009, 9:56 pm

Well she said before that if there is a chance that I can obtain the Holly Grail I will fight for it. Since the contract to the word was she is not supposed to die until she obtains the Holy Grail no matter what. At I think it was mentioned somewhere in the game since it's been a while since I've played it.
- Finding my way through this garden is rather unbearable, but if it is to keep the one I adore company I will endure it for her sake, and her sake alone.
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Unread postby Keeper of Gil's Vault » February 26th, 2009, 4:28 am

The fact that she died at the end of Fate essentially means that she had terminated the contract with the World unilaterally. Consider this, during the last Grail War, Sabre also destroyed the Grail, but she did not die and was resummoned to the 5th war. However, at the conclusion of the 5th, she died.

In Nasuverse, death means that your soul gets recycled, in Sabre's case, her soul will be the stored through one of two ways:

1)As per contract with the World, Alaya gets her soul (we know this for a fact) ---> part of counterforce?
2)If the contract is not binding, her soul gets stored by Akasha (there is a cg on this I think)

The part about her not dying until she got the Grail was before Shirou provided him with a satisfying answer and proper closure.
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Unread postby Kid-Wolf » February 26th, 2009, 5:07 am

Although these's the problem she goes back to the point of death and then will eventually be summoned to another Grail War. The cycle will keep going until she does obtain the Holy Grail, or at least a Holly Grail. The only way out of that loop is if she breaks the contract with the world in the end of it all. Also, in the end of Fate she actually completed her contract with Shirou and had nothing more to keep her with him at all. So the contract with Shirou was completed, but it didn't say anthing about te world's contract.

Although now that I think about it the contract with the world could change depnding on the situation though.
- Finding my way through this garden is rather unbearable, but if it is to keep the one I adore company I will endure it for her sake, and her sake alone.
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Unread postby Keeper of Gil's Vault » February 26th, 2009, 5:52 am

But she died, if the contract with Alaya held, she should be frozen in time and not die. It was implied that the contract is voided/complete. The uncertainty lies in whether her soul is now under the control of Alaya like Archer or simply stored in the Throne of Heroes.
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Unread postby Kid-Wolf » February 26th, 2009, 7:35 am

Wait Alaya? Why does that name sound familiar though? Does that have something to do with her being somethting around to the point of being a Guardian or Counter Guardian spirit of some sort?
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Unread postby Shourai » February 26th, 2009, 9:49 am

Kid-Wolf wrote:Wait Alaya? Why does that name sound familiar though? Does that have something to do with her being somethting around to the point of being a Guardian or Counter Guardian spirit of some sort?
Yes. Despite her being qualified for a Heroic Spirit by her own powers, the contract is absolute.
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Unread postby Keeper of Gil's Vault » February 26th, 2009, 5:29 pm

Ya, the World in Nasuverse consists of two facets, Gaia and Alaya. Gaia is the will of the planet, Alaya is the will of mankind. The counter guardians we talked so much about are under the direct command of Alaya, and you know the rest "remove humanity's threat" bit.
Counter guardians are typically not as powerful as heroic spirits, because they are mostly unknown heroes who signed the World's Pact. Sabre essentially was willing to join the legion of faceless/nameless exterminators in exchange for the miracle of participating in Grail Quests (not only wars) across time.

It became clear in Heaven's Feel that the Grail War is just a sham. Since the Throne of Heroes is connected to Akasha, summoning them out will not only provide prana, but also a direct pathway leading to Akasha. The Greater Grail just punches a hole to Akasha.
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