I reject Fate (SPOILAHZ)

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I reject Fate (SPOILAHZ)

Unread postby sabata2 » January 30th, 2009, 6:31 pm

Seriously... I just can not like the Fate route.

For a Choose Your Own Adventure type story, KNOWING that at the end of your first play through, there is and can ONLY be one ending is bull.

What's worse, is I came into F/SN after watching the Anime.

I look at the game and go
"Oh awesome maybe this way I can have a happy ending with Saber!"
Only to be shot in the face with a resounding "NO!!"


I don't mean to say X is better than Y, but even Tsukihime had three possibilities for endings on the first run through, and a fourth if you were really desperate.

I'm GREATLY looking forward to UBW and HF of the game, but I don't think I'm ever going to play Fate again.
It has good moments, and a rather good second H scene, but regardless of what choices I make, I cannot change the outcome of the story.
Fate really is like Fate. Try as you might to change it, the result will always be the same.
I absolutely hate that. If you're going to give me "control" over a story, it shouldn't be only a mock control.
"Yeah, there's multiple ways you can die, but sorry dude, you can only live this way! >8D"

Did anyone else feel the same way, or enter in the same conditions?
Last edited by sabata2 on January 31st, 2009, 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby solopy567 » January 30th, 2009, 6:40 pm

Yes, Fate route was great but the ending is annoying. That's why the concept of multiple endings was invented, to give you more control of the story.
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Unread postby Message » January 30th, 2009, 6:55 pm

sabata2, by posting unmasked spoilers about the Fate ending you are in breach of rule number 5. Please consider this your first and only warning.
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Unread postby JLA » January 30th, 2009, 7:36 pm

You can be like me and start the UBW route tomorrow to match up with the actual days they are supposed to take place :D
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Unread postby sabata2 » January 30th, 2009, 7:57 pm

JLA wrote:You can be like me and start the UBW route tomorrow to match up with the actual days they are supposed to take place :D
-J


Sounds like a plan...

Actually that sounds really good. I'll just have to force myself to stick to one "Day" a day.


@Message
Sorry about that, Having been at other Major gaming forums for so long, where you can't add Spoiler tags, has kinda ruined my boundary line for what is and isn't spoiler.
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Unread postby nobaka » January 30th, 2009, 11:44 pm

I feel your pain. D:

The only reason I still have save files in the Fate route is for Saber development. But yeah. Raeg @ ending.
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Unread postby HeartCard » January 30th, 2009, 11:52 pm

Protip, Sabata2, just do what I do for spoilers.
Add the (Spoiler) tag to any topic you make.
That way you're auto-exempt from getting in trouble for accidental spoilers. :P

P.S. :
If it's any consultation, know that Shirou and Saber do meet up in Avalon in the "Good"(as it gets atleast) ending of Fate.
Unfortunately, that ending is only in Realta Nua.
Basically: Saber waits just outside avalon for shirou to show up. Shirou dies finally, meets saber.
"Welcome Home, Shirou."
"Yeah. I'm Home."


That day-by-day plan is something I think alot of us have done. Cept you'll quickly find yourself abandoning it half-way through once the pace picks up.
Plus...HF True Ending.
You'll have to wait a year from the day you beat it to play it. :3



Plus, there's that certain surprise after you get all 40 tiger stamps.
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Fate/Twisted Night:
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Unread postby inferno_flamex » January 31st, 2009, 2:40 am

Sigh..

I began playing FSN under your EXACT assumption, even before Fate route was translated.

So you could imagine me going through the game without an ounce of understanding for the Japanese written language... PURELY advancing the game by saving at every choice, and attempting Trial and Error... Only to find out what you found out about the route thing...


yes... Welcome to the club...
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Unread postby Shourai » January 31st, 2009, 4:09 am

Your opinion is properly justified, but I cannot agree with the reason why you "dismiss" Fate route. It is to be noted that the storyline itself is beautiful, just like the other routes. The problem is, as you stated, the ending. Let me ask you this : what do you think will happen if somehow it turned like UBW Good Ending? Or like Arcueid Good Ending?

No, it will horribly ruin the tone of the story. I like Fate as it is now, and providing a Good Ending just like
Arcueid Good Ending
will ridicule all I have read. If you want a Good Ending,
a rather biased Good Ending like Last Episode is better than a "true" Good Ending like Tsukihime and UBW Good Endings.
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Unread postby sabata2 » January 31st, 2009, 6:10 am

I'm just gonna friggin play it safe...

I liked the Arc Good ending.

Arc was who I ended up with playing as myself, so I got attached, and got rather depressed at the True one.

And it's not that I want some tacked on "good" ending. It's that I can't get anything BUT the depressing ending.
If the "new" ending I want was simply a "normal" ending, I'd be fine. I just wanted something other than what I knew.

Something to make me go "I wonder what I'll get if I always choose the Bottom choice and make it to the end!"
Something to screw around with the game mechanics.

With Fate, either you like the story and keep replaying it, or you don't and it will never really be played again.
I know the only reason I'll ever play it again is to get the Taiga stamps.

I mean I've heard how people dislike the HF endings, but unless they are absolutely HORRID, I'll likely like them better than the entire Fate Route itself.


Also I've looked up "The Last Episode" but all I ever found was a summarization, and I'd atleast like to read along with the voices.
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Unread postby Shourai » January 31st, 2009, 6:24 am

sabata2 wrote:I'm just gonna friggin play it safe...

I liked the Arc Good ending.

Arc was who I ended up with playing as myself, so I got attached, and got rather depressed at the True one.

And it's not that I want some tacked on "good" ending. It's that I can't get anything BUT the depressing ending.
If the "new" ending I want was simply a "normal" ending, I'd be fine. I just wanted something other than what I knew.

Something to make me go "I wonder what I'll get if I always choose the Bottom choice and make it to the end!"
Something to screw around with the game mechanics.

With Fate, either you like the story and keep replaying it, or you don't and it will never really be played again.
I know the only reason I'll ever play it again is to get the Taiga stamps.

I mean I've heard how people dislike the HF endings, but unless they are absolutely HORRID, I'll likely like them better than the entire Fate Route itself.


Also I've looked up "The Last Episode" but all I ever found was a summarization, and I'd atleast like to read along with the voices.
Ah, you know what? You're hooked to the anime. You play the game just to see if there's an alternate ending and ended up hating it because there's not. The VN fail to meet your expectations, so you hate Fate route. That's utterly biased opinion, knowing that
only Fate has one ending throughout all TYPE-MOON Visual Novels.


You will hate Arcueid Route if there's no Good Ending, and you'll hate HF Normal Ending. Hell, even though Saber was not my main, I enjoyed Fate route and liked its ending; Good Ending like Arcueid one would just horribly ridicule each and every plot point Nasu had ever written for that particular route. I'm not being an ass here, but you cannot ask for alternate Fate endings.

One of the reason (I think) is that King Arthur died in the original Arthurian legend. Nasu is trying to put up with the story, so there goes Fate True Ending. Don't discuss; I couldn't care less why Nasu didn't write it while he could have. I merely stated that "forced" Good Endings like Arcueid one just will not do.

If you're looking for "not forced" Good Endings, fanfics are always there for you to read. There are loads of high quality fics about Fate "Good Endings"; maybe they can satisfy your thirst for mollification? :)
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Unread postby sabata2 » January 31st, 2009, 6:43 am

No no no no, you misunderstand

I'm not saying I want "not forced" good endings.
I'm saying I want more than one ending per route.
For all I care it could have been:
True Ending (one there is)
Horrible Ending

Atleast that way, I could have played the game as myself and been satisfied with the result I got.
Instead of played the game as Shirou is "supposed to be" while gaining very little involvement in it myself

Thinking about that I may dislike Kohaku's route. But that is for when I get there.

It's not so much that I hate the ending and therefore I hate the route. It's that I hate how the route only has ONE ending. The fact that I dislike the ending only compounds the hate to a level of "I'm not gonna play it again."
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Unread postby Shourai » January 31st, 2009, 6:49 am

sabata2 wrote:No no no no, you misunderstand

I'm not saying I want "not forced" good endings.
I'm saying I want more than one ending per route.
For all I care it could have been:
True Ending (one there is)
Horrible Ending

Atleast that way, I could have played the game as myself and been satisfied with the result I got.
Instead of played the game as Shirou is "supposed to be" while gaining very little involvement in it myself

Thinking about that I may dislike Kohaku's route. But that is for when I get there.

It's not so much that I hate the ending and therefore I hate the route. It's that I hate how the route only has ONE ending. The fact that I dislike the ending only compounds the hate to a level of "I'm not gonna play it again."
I know perfectly well what you want. I said you'll hate Arcueid Route if there's only True Ending, you'll hate HF Normal Ending (if there's no True Ending), you'll hate Akiha Normal Ending. I was talking about myself when I said "forced" Good Endings. I loathe that kind of Ending. Seriously. Better go off with just 1 ending than with additional endings that ruin the whole storyline like that.

No offense here, but that's typical behaviour of someone who's hooked to anime version of a VN.
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Unread postby Kid-Wolf » January 31st, 2009, 7:16 am

Shourai wrote:
sabata2 wrote:No no no no, you misunderstand

I'm not saying I want "not forced" good endings.
I'm saying I want more than one ending per route.
For all I care it could have been:
True Ending (one there is)
Horrible Ending

Atleast that way, I could have played the game as myself and been satisfied with the result I got.
Instead of played the game as Shirou is "supposed to be" while gaining very little involvement in it myself

Thinking about that I may dislike Kohaku's route. But that is for when I get there.

It's not so much that I hate the ending and therefore I hate the route. It's that I hate how the route only has ONE ending. The fact that I dislike the ending only compounds the hate to a level of "I'm not gonna play it again."
I know perfectly well what you want. I said you'll hate Arcueid Route if there's only True Ending, you'll hate HF Normal Ending (if there's no True Ending), you'll hate Akiha Normal Ending. I was talking about myself when I said "forced" Good Endings. I loathe that kind of Ending. Seriously. Better go off with just 1 ending than with additional endings that ruin the whole storyline like that.

No offense here, but that's typical behaviour of someone who's hooked to anime version of a VN.

Actually I like to challenge the good ending for Akiha there since it was really sad if you will.
In any case it is more like when there is another ending for said character it's like well this could of happened if things played out a bit differently. For example would be like Ciel's good Ending where Shiki manages to have both Arc and Curry all to himself. It's almost like UBW Good End as well. Sometimes it more along th eline of how things played out tat make a story worth while in the end.
- Finding my way through this garden is rather unbearable, but if it is to keep the one I adore company I will endure it for her sake, and her sake alone.
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Unread postby Message » January 31st, 2009, 8:00 am

I don't really agree with sabata2's issue. You cannot say that Fate has only one ending, because Fate IS an ending. Fate/stay night is the game, and it has five endings. The fact that the whole story leading up to some of those endings differs entirely from the others is only extra win. On the other hand, what you could complain about is TYPE-MOON asking you to play some of the five endings in a very specific order.


Shourai wrote:I know perfectly well what you want.

For the record: this is flamebaiting, Shourai. Either stop it or stop posting, thank you.
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Unread postby sabata2 » January 31st, 2009, 9:11 am

Message wrote:On the other hand, what you could complain about is TYPE-MOON asking you to play some of the five endings in a very specific order.


Okay... yeah I guess that if that weren't the case... Oh, I dunno, say
they allowed access to both UBW and Fate on first playthrough.
Then, yeah likely I wouldn't have much of a problem with it.
And who knows, maybe I'd have enjoyed Fate more had that been the case.
Seeing as instead of being forced into getting to know Saber, I could have become attached to Rin, or even both characters. Leading to an actual WANT to review Saber's story.
After all, it HAS been around 2 years since I've seen the anime.
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Unread postby Shourai » January 31st, 2009, 9:18 am

sabata2 wrote:
Okay... yeah I guess that if that weren't the case... Oh, I dunno, say
they allowed access to both UBW and Fate on first playthrough.
Then, yeah likely I wouldn't have much of a problem with it.
To clear up misunderstandings,
no, you cannot access UBW before you finished Fate. It will only lead to an UBW Bad End, not the actual endings.


And Message, Fate is a route (Saber's route), not an ending. :P
Ending is "Continuation of the Dream". Or "Brilliant Years", etc, etc...
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Unread postby lolipedofin » January 31st, 2009, 10:08 am

Hmm... I completely agree with sabata2 there if you want to view F/SN completely as a game... it does kinda un-satisfying

You can hardly control the games except for few choices here and there, where wrong choices means instant K.O... or different selection means different moe treatment...

But in all honesty, i prefer the game as it is... well, with the exception of if only Realta Nua can be incorporated to the PC version. Lots of choices, or the more interactive a VN is, more of often than not, means less engaging story... So yeah, I like F/SN as it is. Since i played it not for the gameplay, but 100% for the story it offers...


As for those who hate the ending of FATE, well, i actually love the ending... more than the additional ending at Realta Nua. As most people know, I'm not a huge fan of Saber, not that i hate her, i just don't care about her... but the Fate ending enabled me sympathize with Saber and I atually found myself liking her, though still second to Rin (and lately, Rider). Had her ending been similar to that of Arc Good ending, i think i would have gone WTF over saber...

Her ending is good as it is... It was a really beautifully drawn scene, on all aspect.. music, graphics and narration, It's a really soothing yet dramatic, but most definitely a very dreamy scene... too turn it into a forced good ending would be too dreamy, too cruel... might as well have Shirou come on a white horse and give a wake up kiss to Saber, ending it with "Happily Ever After" caption...


PS: This thread is centered on discussing ending, meaning spoilers are guaranteed to be abound... might as well masked the thread "spoiler"
Uchi kaeru....
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Unread postby abscess » January 31st, 2009, 10:10 am

Message wrote:I don't really agree with sabata2's issue. You cannot say that Fate has only one ending, because Fate IS an ending. Fate/stay night is the game, and it has five endings. The fact that the whole story leading up to some of those endings differs entirely from the others is only extra win. On the other hand, what you could complain about is TYPE-MOON asking you to play some of the five endings in a very specific order.

Shourai wrote:And Message, Fate is a route (Saber's route), not an ending.

Okay.... I dunno, but isn't this starting to look a bit like an argument of semantics or something the like? However you wanna put it, Fate being an ending or a route (I myself consider it a route with CotD being the ending of said route, but anyways...) the conclusive fact is still the same,
Saber gets only one conclusion to her side of the story, she dies
I certainly would have preffered to have open access to all the routes from the very beginning, but with the way the game was done, some stuff is explained/developed in Fate, skipped in UBW and the same happens in HF (not counting the parts that got chopped in translation). If open access from the very start was available, we could probably get a strange experience were we ask ourselves whatever happend or what was the reason behind some event that was explained in previous routes and could have ended up not liking the game that much, or perhaps even disliking it *coughPostmortemcough*

Frankly, even though I already knew Fate's ending, I preffer to have a single ending than a crappy good/bad/horrible ending. So, I'm satisfied.
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.
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Unread postby Shourai » January 31st, 2009, 10:42 am

abscess wrote:Frankly, even though I already knew Fate's ending, I preffer to have a single ending than a crappy good/bad/horrible ending. So, I'm satisfied.
You, sir, just won an internet. :lol:
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