Some inconsistencies in heavens feel (spoiler)

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Unread postby Raitei » January 2nd, 2009, 1:22 am

samasamon wrote:She say who is that hero in fate when fight between zerker and archer end. She should already know because archer already disappear.

That's strange.
and where would disappeared servants go to? the grail, course. and since ilya became the vessel of the grail, just like in hf, there are some thinking that ilya should know who archer is. but since ilya only became the vessel of the lesser grail in fate, she might not gain as much information as she did in hf.
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Unread postby chrono1991 » January 12th, 2009, 2:31 am

Kenzu wrote:
negum wrote:Zouken would interfere BECAUSE Saber was that strong. He knew from the start that the Shadow had the ability to steal Servants.
Caster was absorbed by the Shadow, before she disappeared after being defeated by Saber. The Shadow took out Assassin and as a Holy Grail morphed him into a different Eirei. At least I see the summoning that way. But Zouken had to be around to make a contract, that's a fact. The Makiri made the Command Spell system, so perhaps he found a loophole in the rules.

[/spoil]


if you says that shadow had the ability to steal servants,why don't shirou just use rule breaker on dark saber instead of killing her?
the part i don't understand about the shadow is:
1)did the shadow just engulf and steal saber and berserker without killing them?
2)if statement is true,why don't the shadow just engulf evry servants at the begining instead of keeping the death souls...
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Unread postby that one guy » January 12th, 2009, 3:25 am

I'm kind of confused by your statement, but I'll try to explain as best I can. Berserker and Saber couldn't be saved for two reasons: First, Berserker was still mad and would have killed Shirou, not to mention he would need to die at some point*Or Saber/Rider would* Second: Saber couldn't be saved because she, too, became insane after being absorbed by the shadow. Not to mention all it would take to get her to stop moving long enough to use Rule Breaker. You have to remember Sakura willingly received Rule Breaker because she thought Shirou was going to kill her, something she REALLY wanted to happen at that point. Saber, being mad, would not do anything of that sort.
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Unread postby Keeper of Gil's Vault » January 12th, 2009, 5:37 am

Naw, Sabre was never insane. The curse just corrupted her and changed her alignment to evil. If you read through the Crane Wing Triple Strike dead end, you can see she was perfectly sane and logical. She commented on Shirou's strength of character, and even felt remorse for his sacrifice. However, I do agree trying to fight Sabre with Rule Breaker and not giving it all would result in swift death.
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Unread postby Kid-Wolf » January 12th, 2009, 5:47 am

Actually not giving it your all against Saber would result in a swift death if you ask me. In any case if Shirou used Rule Breaker on Saber while she was in her Dark mode, she would of porobablly survived, but Shirou would of wasted a projection he needs against Dark Sakura. So in that case even if he kept Rule Breaker out it might not do him any good at all.
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Unread postby that one guy » January 12th, 2009, 7:02 am

Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:Naw, Sabre was never insane.


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Unread postby AlinSabel » January 12th, 2009, 12:08 pm

That's not insanity! D:

...insanity would be Taka saying he's giving up imouto!
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Unread postby Shourai » January 12th, 2009, 2:01 pm

AlinSabel wrote:That's not insanity! D:

...insanity would be Taka saying he's giving up imouto!
More likely,
she's restraining herself from giving in to insanity.
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Unread postby Xanathos » January 12th, 2009, 2:12 pm

Raitei wrote:
samasamon wrote:She say who is that hero in fate when fight between zerker and archer end. She should already know because archer already disappear.

That's strange.
and where would disappeared servants go to? the grail, course. and since ilya became the vessel of the grail, just like in hf, there are some thinking that ilya should know who archer is. but since ilya only became the vessel of the lesser grail in fate, she might not gain as much information as she did in hf.


Wouldn't the difference only matter when she actually became the grail? At those two respective points when she absorbed archer there really wasn't too much of a difference.
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Unread postby Rikh » January 12th, 2009, 10:02 pm

Xanathos wrote:
Raitei wrote:
samasamon wrote:She say who is that hero in fate when fight between zerker and archer end. She should already know because archer already disappear.

That's strange.
and where would disappeared servants go to? the grail, course. and since ilya became the vessel of the grail, just like in hf, there are some thinking that ilya should know who archer is. but since ilya only became the vessel of the lesser grail in fate, she might not gain as much information as she did in hf.


Wouldn't the difference only matter when she actually became the grail? At those two respective points when she absorbed archer there really wasn't too much of a difference.


well you can speculate a lot of things

in UBW she never had a chance to say much...
but in fate...

She could have seen that the Emiya Shiro who protected her was not the one to become Archer...
She could have dubbed the information useless, as shiro gained the respective abilities in tracing already
She had no reason for disturbing Shiro's ideal in Fate, because she likes him that way?
She knew it would ruin his chances in fate from some horrible event unfolding once the truth was said...
In HF... shiro abandoned his dreams and his life, and had a 'certain persons' body part grafted onto him... so the information then might have been necessary
She could have told shiro after the events of Fate route anyways, it was un-needed in the route at all, since nothing Shiro did had a relation to archer


honestly, there is a lot of speculation, but you can imply she knows who Archer is... it's also a reason why illya might have been so apt to being even more attached to shiro after berserker died (As opposed to her just being
his fake/pwnsauceloli sister?
)

Anywho, leave it to your speculations ;)
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Unread postby Inverted » January 13th, 2009, 6:39 am

When servants get absorbed by the lesser grail they become just power don't they ? I don't think she found out Archer's identity from absorbing him.

In HF she was present during the grafting Archer's arm to Shirou .So either she found out from Archer himself ( indirect words) ,or, more likely,Archer was still alive ,memories and all, so during grafting while interacting with his spiritual body she was able to find out.
Anyway this is my speculation.
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Unread postby Teddeh » February 6th, 2009, 1:22 pm

I thought she knew who archer was because he shouted "Ilya" when she was in danger in the forest. And a servant who didn't know her wouldn't call her with the nickname shiro made for her.
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Unread postby Ryougi07 » February 6th, 2009, 5:18 pm

Inverted wrote:
When servants get absorbed by the lesser grail they become just power don't they ? I don't think she found out Archer's identity from absorbing him.

In HF she was present during the grafting Archer's arm to Shirou .So either she found out from Archer himself ( indirect words) ,or, more likely,Archer was still alive ,memories and all, so during grafting while interacting with his spiritual body she was able to find out.
Anyway this is my speculation.


seconded, I think she found out because of the implications of archer's words.
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Unread postby Echoman » February 10th, 2009, 3:58 am

Rikh wrote:
Xanathos wrote:here's an inconsistency.

In Heaven's Feel Illya states that due to her absorbing archer, she knows his identity.

However, why is it that in the fate route she couldn't?


well she probably did know
it just only had significance in Heavens Feel because it was Archers arm on Shiro's body

Also its big spoilers to the UBW route if mentioned in Fate. Illya probably found no reason to depress or scare shiro about it during fate, as it wasn't necessary


Also, when Shirou asks her about being the Grail, she tells him "That's one of two things I never wanted you to find out." or something like that. (What was the other, anyway? That Kiritsugu was her father/sperm donor/whatev?) SO she would not want to say something that would reveal that to him needlessly.

Teddeh wrote:
I thought she knew who archer was because he shouted "Ilya" when she was in danger in the forest. And a servant who didn't know her wouldn't call her with the nickname shiro made for her.


She was the one that told him to call her that. Doesn't mean she didn't recognize it for the same reason, just he didn't make it up.

Ryougi07 wrote:
Inverted wrote:
When servants get absorbed by the lesser grail they become just power don't they ? I don't think she found out Archer's identity from absorbing him.

In HF she was present during the grafting Archer's arm to Shirou .So either she found out from Archer himself ( indirect words) ,or, more likely,Archer was still alive ,memories and all, so during grafting while interacting with his spiritual body she was able to find out.
Anyway this is my speculation.


seconded, I think she found out because of the implications of archer's words.


Yar, I guess that could be true.
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