Best way to kill a Servant(might contain spoiler)

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Choose one?

Exorcise
0
No votes
Figth servant with servant
1
4%
write down name on Death note?lol
6
22%
contact hell girl >_>
0
No votes
nuke the whole city
2
7%
snipe the master/servant
13
48%
i don't really care , this is a stupid question
5
19%
 
Total votes : 27

Unread postby Watashimo » December 29th, 2008, 7:41 am

Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:What Raitei said. Objects of ancient origins possess powers matching that of sorcery without being "magical". Basically the accumulation of age can cause animate and inanimate objects to gain almost magical properties. Therefore, a relic such as an ancient spear may hurt a servant without being a NP. The extend of the damage, however, will depend on how potent its mystery is.

You are not entirely wrong in saying modern weapons cannot hurt servants, but also not entirely right. Kiritsugu's br0ken weapon is not quite a pistol. To be more specific, I believe it is a conceptual weapon.


I understand the part about the weapons he traces being magical themselves, but I merely meant in general that weapons Shirou makes can have more effect on a Servant than normal weapons simply because they are made of pure prana. Thats merely speculation on my part, but considering that spells have effect on Servants because they are an attack using prana rather than physical force I think my line of thinking is not far off. And yes, its true that modern weapons have no effect on Servants, but Kiritsugu is a mage and as such has the knowledge to bend this rule. So yes, I am entirely right in saying that modern weapons cannot hurt Servants. I don't think Kiritsugu's weapon falls into the same category as every other "modern weapon."
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Unread postby logos » December 29th, 2008, 9:57 am

hmm, well then i'd use a strengthened Barrett with strengthened bullets, that should solve the problem, right? :D

oh, and a fusion bomb filled with blessed hydrogen (hydrogen derived from blessed water). :twisted: :roll:
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Unread postby spathi » December 29th, 2008, 10:18 am

can we strengthen the said useless nuke?? :D
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Unread postby Xamdou » December 29th, 2008, 10:19 am

spathi wrote:can we strengthen the said useless nuke?? :D
How about magical nuke?? :D
"You sit proudly in this cave , like a Queen of Egypt.
In my service to you , I shall never know rest.
To prove my devotion , I have stolen this ostentatious offering.
But I'll show you things your dark blue eye haven't seen , smiles like a lake in the sun , blossoming like a lotus."
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Unread postby inferno_flamex » December 29th, 2008, 10:32 am

How to kill a servent..

~
Find the true identity...
Go back in time...
Locate mentioned servent...
Kill said servent while he/she is still just a newborn...


POOF!!
OMG! Time paradoxas!
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Unread postby logos » December 29th, 2008, 11:13 am

inferno_flamex wrote:How to kill a servent..

~
Find the true identity...
Go back in time...
Locate mentioned servent...
Kill said servent while he/she is still just a newborn...


POOF!!
OMG! Time paradoxas!


actually thats exactly what archer tries to do in UBW but they say it probably wont work, right?

so fail :twisted:
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Unread postby Xamdou » December 29th, 2008, 11:40 am

logos wrote:
inferno_flamex wrote:How to kill a servent..

~
Find the true identity...
Go back in time...
Locate mentioned servent...
Kill said servent while he/she is still just a newborn...


POOF!!
OMG! Time paradoxas!


actually thats exactly what archer tries to do in UBW but they say it probably wont work, right?

so fail :twisted:
It failed cause Nasu don't want it to be successful :evil:
"You sit proudly in this cave , like a Queen of Egypt.
In my service to you , I shall never know rest.
To prove my devotion , I have stolen this ostentatious offering.
But I'll show you things your dark blue eye haven't seen , smiles like a lake in the sun , blossoming like a lotus."
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Unread postby Raitei » December 29th, 2008, 11:40 am

logos wrote:actually thats exactly what archer tries to do in UBW but they say it probably wont work, right?

so fail :twisted:
actually, it might work in a millionth chance, but the possibilities might be higher when the one killing that particular person is his/her future self.

death note ftw. :twisted:
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Unread postby inferno_flamex » December 29th, 2008, 11:49 am

logos wrote:
actually thats exactly what archer tries to do in UBW but they say it probably wont work, right?

so fail :twisted:

Yes.. And No...

Yeah as in yeah.. That's pretty much the whole idea of it all..

No as in...
No.. You're not gonna kill yourself.. or in some cases your ideal...
You're gonna kill off someone else that in one point of time.. Is gonna kill YOU..

Because the question is something like this.. "Hot do you kill a god?"... Well the answer is "You Cant"... So? You have to find a way to make the god, not a god anymore... Just like the Disney Hercules... Find a way to make the servent, into NOT a servent...

Invent a time machine or something...

And you must admit.. Archer has INDEED given the GREATEST opportunity to kill Shirou off before he becomes what he is to become... But what held him off is Archer hesitated to kill by his own accord... It was, in a way, his choice NOT to kill off Shirou.. So you cannot count it as a 'fail', just because one guy HESITATED at the last moment.. Nothing was proven...

~EDIT~
Hahaha! 3rd Post!?!?! Damn im slow typer...
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Unread postby logos » December 29th, 2008, 12:30 pm

inferno_flamex wrote:

And you must admit.. Archer has INDEED given the GREATEST opportunity to kill Shirou off before he becomes what he is to become... But what held him off is Archer hesitated to kill by his own accord... It was, in a way, his choice NOT to kill off Shirou.. So you cannot count it as a 'fail', just because one guy HESITATED at the last moment.. Nothing was proven...


actually i was referring to rin's comment about heroic spirits being outside the time stream (or something like that), so archer wouldn't dissapear even if shirou died, not archers failure to kill shirou.
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Unread postby inferno_flamex » December 29th, 2008, 1:08 pm

logos wrote:actually i was referring to rin's comment about heroic spirits being outside the time stream (or something like that), so archer wouldn't dissapear even i shirou died, not archers failure to kill shirou.


Well yeah.. That Archer doesnt have an 'ongoing future' to return to in the first place so of course he's not affected in the time stream... To him everything else is already in the past. Remember? That 'book' thing in which all he does is read it.

...

So lets say you go back in time...
...
Ancient times.. To get rid of a servent named Achilles for example! WAYYY before he was born... XDD
And you bring a great big effing NUKE with ya! Hahahahhaa....
Blow up the place including that place called Troy... after making sure that you're safe.

Then attempt to return to the YEAR that you come from... Im not talking about the place/plane, but the year... Then try to see if there is any changes.
As long as you dont go back to the exact plane where you return to... Servent Achiles should never have been born in the first place...

I dont think he could be summoned as a Servent if he 'never existed' in that 'altered world'... in the first place... Right?
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"There is no greater love, between a boy and his pillow"
~:~:~
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Unread postby logos » December 29th, 2008, 1:22 pm

well your argument seems to basically build on archer trying to change the future while you are trying to change the past but that is all (as Einstein and all the other physics geeks put is) relative to the point of view of the observer. from archer pov he is changing the past and from the pov of the people of troy you are trying to change the future. and then there is the whole multi verse headache to deal with as reasonably your nuke is going to split the timeline, i don't know if servants can jump between realties... though i guess if he dossent exist in the firstplace in our timeline no one will know about him and he wont be summoned for that reason.

and btw if you jump back in time and start nuking places him living or not is rely the least issue as you are liable to mess up the timeline so much that the holy grale is liable to never get created in the first place :? :roll:
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Unread postby inferno_flamex » December 29th, 2008, 1:28 pm

logos wrote:and btw if you jump back in time and start nuking places him living or not is rely the least issue as you are liable to mess up the timeline so much that the holy grale is liable to never get created in the first place :? :roll:


Heheh.. I just brought it up for the fun of it.. But even still..

Grail or no grail... Timeline or no timeline... Problem still solved.... No more servent/s... LOL!
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Unread postby Xamdou » December 29th, 2008, 1:31 pm

how about jumping back to golden age and nuke?It will be better to erase even the msot ancient thing ever existed :D
"You sit proudly in this cave , like a Queen of Egypt.
In my service to you , I shall never know rest.
To prove my devotion , I have stolen this ostentatious offering.
But I'll show you things your dark blue eye haven't seen , smiles like a lake in the sun , blossoming like a lotus."
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Unread postby logos » December 29th, 2008, 1:36 pm

oh, and one thing i forgot to mention...

all this is liable to bring the grandfather paradox into effect since this will almost certainly stop you all from ever being born :D
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Unread postby abscess » December 30th, 2008, 1:26 am

....
There's something I don't get.... Isn't the hero's souls taken away from the time-line and get thrown into the throne of heroes? With that, it doesn't matter if you blow up the whole world during it's birth or you somehow undo the Big-Bang before it ever happened (well.. maybe not that much), inside the throne of heroes there already is a hero named Emiya, Achiless, Theseus, maybe even Pedro Ramirez Alcazar or something like that for all we know! The point is, the hero's soul is already in there, so, are you really able to affect the past in order to affect something outside of the time constrains?, I somehow doubt it. Does it rape physics to have something outside of time? I think it does, but there is nothing we can do in the Nasuverse :/
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Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.
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Unread postby Keeper of Gil's Vault » December 30th, 2008, 2:02 am

The Throne of Heroes is governed by the World. Therefore, abscess, I wouldn't go as far as saying the heroic spirit won't die even if you blow up the world. Archer mentioned there is a slim chance the paradox can erase a heroic spirit from existence, I hazard a guess that you have to kill the exact version of the hero that had achieved the worthy deed or made the contract with the world.
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Unread postby abscess » December 30th, 2008, 5:21 am

Alright then, blowing up the world (or the universe for that matter) is an effective method of getting rid of all the heroes. But I still think that what Archer was trying to do was useless. I don't say that what you said about killing the exact version that went there is completely impossible, sounds plausible, but I'd say that it's highly unlikely. At any rate, it depends on "what Nasu says".
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.
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Unread postby Watashimo » December 30th, 2008, 5:42 am

Once an individual is recognized as a Heroic Spirit, his soul will be removed from the cycle of transmigration and is stored in the Throne of Heroes, a spiritual location that is part of Akasha. He is left isolated there so to guarantee that no alteration that might compromise what is now considered a complete and perfect existence occurs. This is important since if a contradiction or existential paradox involving the hero is detected, the records of his existence might have to be erased so to preserve the stability of the world, though depending of the level of the distortion there might not be a need for such drastic measure. The Throne itself, just like Akasha, is a place that is outside any parallel world or timeframe, which is also a factor that makes possible for them to be summoned into any age.

So see? They are place in the Throne of Heroes so that they CAN'T be erased by any paradox or contradiction in the world.

What I never understood about time paradoxes though is that if you can travel into the future or the past, then that means that the entirety of time is already written down and set in stone. If this is true, then any paradoxes that can or will happen is already accounted for and from the standpoint of someone outside of time, all of time has happened at the exact same instant. So anything that ever has or ever will happen has already happened, at least thats how it looks to someone outside time. So if Akasha is a place outside of time, then it can never be destroyed because its basically at the end of time as it is.
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Unread postby abscess » December 30th, 2008, 6:30 am

@Wata
Hmm... yeh, sounds plaussible. I only thought that, somehow, time repeats itself (?) and some stuff happens again and again and others not. So I suppose that Archer was the Shirou from another loop while this Shirou dones't necessarily have to do the same stuff. Of course, I don't have any basis for this theory, just some ideas.

This same paradox is used in various other series, Terminator and Ever17 are prime examples.
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.
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