How did Assassin vanish/die in Fate? [ubw spoiler]

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How did Assassin vanish/die in Fate? [ubw spoiler]

Unread postby Ferozban » December 21st, 2008, 10:43 pm

In UBW it was said that assassin is bount to the mountain (so he does not disappear when caster dies) and has enough energy for 20 days.

at day 16 he was at the edge of dissapperaing, but fate ended with day 15.

so what happend to him? why did he not stop them entering the temple in the fate arc too?
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Re: How did Assassin vanish/die in Fate? [ubw spoiler]

Unread postby Raitei » December 21st, 2008, 11:35 pm

Ferozban wrote:In UBW it was said that assassin is bount to the mountain (so he does not disappear when caster dies) and has enough energy for 20 days.

at day 16 he was at the edge of dissapperaing, but fate ended with day 15.
this is merely a speculation, but fights with other servants every now and then should wear off his mana more than it should be. and in fate, caster most likely killed him for a sacrificial pig, believing she's as good as won already. (her attitude when raiding the emiya residence pretty much explains everything)

so what happend to him? why did he not stop them entering the temple in the fate arc too?
he did in day 7 or so, didn't he? before the battle with saber, caster killed him, as I already said.
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Unread postby Watashimo » December 21st, 2008, 11:45 pm

I also believe he was summoned before the start of the Grail War, like most of the Servants - Berserker, Caster, Lancer, etc.
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Unread postby Ferozban » December 22nd, 2008, 12:31 am

ye like he stated in ubw, caster gave him energy for 20 days, and at day 16 he had almost none left.

so he was summoned approx 4 days before.

thats the reason why i asked how he was killed in fate since he should have stopped them entering the tempel at day 15. but he wasnt there.

this is merely a speculation, but fights with other servants every now and then should wear off his mana more than it should be. and in fate, caster most likely killed him for a sacrificial pig, believing she's as good as won already. (her attitude when raiding the emiya residence pretty much explains everything)


yes well, so far this is the only thing i can think of, too. caster was very sure she would get saber under her control, so she might have thought that assassin is nothing but a waste anymore and killed him.

but i'm not really convinced by that. i wouldnt make any sense to kill assasin, since he was not draining energy from caster.
caster gave him a specific amount of energy and nothing more. so why would she kill him?


maybe she didnt want him fighting saber (considering saber would be controlled by caster), since it would have been a waste of energy.
or maybe she somehow took back the remaining energy from him, since she needed every drop of energy she could get to summon the grail.

but all explainaitions are not really convincing.
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Unread postby Watashimo » December 22nd, 2008, 1:36 am

Well in Fate, I'm sure Gilgamesh or Kotomine just killed him off when they took over the temple. In UBW Saber fought him while Shirou was fighting Gilgamesh. She bent his sword and then jumped through his Tsubame Gaeshi.
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Unread postby that one guy » December 22nd, 2008, 2:20 am

But then why wouldn't Gil kill him in UBW as well?
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Unread postby Shikiller » December 22nd, 2008, 2:32 am

He was killed by Gilgamesh.
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Unread postby Raitei » December 22nd, 2008, 4:00 am

Shikiller wrote:He was killed by Gilgamesh.
in fate? well, we know not who killed him; that's just another speculation.

But then why wouldn't Gil kill him in UBW as well?
did he fight against gil? gil is not included in the list of hf5 servant, you know. and gil doesn't benefit from killing him when he stepped in ryuudouji before the final battle; he can serve as a tool to delay shirou's party or whatever reason he has.

probably the scenario went like this : knowing that saber is coming, assassin, who hoped for a good match let gil inside without any qualms, and gil too, went in quietly.
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I'm an agent of chaos."
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Unread postby Watashimo » December 22nd, 2008, 5:37 am

Raitei wrote:
Shikiller wrote:He was killed by Gilgamesh.
in fate? well, we know not who killed him; that's just another speculation.

But then why wouldn't Gil kill him in UBW as well?
did he fight against gil? gil is not included in the list of hf5 servant, you know. and gil doesn't benefit from killing him when he stepped in ryuudouji before the final battle; he can serve as a tool to delay shirou's party or whatever reason he has.

probably the scenario went like this : knowing that saber is coming, assassin, who hoped for a good match let gil inside without any qualms, and gil too, went in quietly.


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Unread postby Keeper of Gil's Vault » December 22nd, 2008, 6:57 am

The front gate is not the only way to enter the temple. It is possible to enter the temple through other paths, but the barrier has a crippling effect on spiritual beings like servants. Therefore, a smart servant might as well just charge in through the gate instead of suffering the penalty inflicted by breaching the barrier. Gilgamesh actually has a true physical form rather than the mana-constructed body of other servants, so that may allow him to enter the temple with ease. The final battleground of UBW was the lake, which is pretty far behind the temple. Gilgamesh may just walk through the barrier and get there without bothering Assassin.

It is kind of unclear in Heaven's Feel as who killed Assassin. Assassin just said the attacker is someone who strikes from the shadows. Is it Sakura? Rider? Or old man Zouken himself (unlikely to be him, but since True Assassin was summoned, we know he was there)?
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Unread postby Ferozban » December 22nd, 2008, 7:26 am

Raitei wrote:probably the scenario went like this : knowing that saber is coming, assassin, who hoped for a good match let gil inside without any qualms, and gil too, went in quietly.


yes, thats what i also thought happend in ubw.
well and since he wasnt there in fate, it seems your right. for whatever reason caster must have killed him :/

anyways i just hoped to see a little more of him in fate. it kinda feels like his role in fate was totally unimportant to a point where his deathstory was just ignored by the type-moon staff at the end of fate :/ (a small intermission would have done it)
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Unread postby Raitei » December 22nd, 2008, 8:08 am

Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:The front gate is not the only way to enter the temple. It is possible to enter the temple through other paths, but the barrier has a crippling effect on spiritual beings like servants. Therefore, a smart servant might as well just charge in through the gate instead of suffering the penalty inflicted by breaching the barrier. Gilgamesh actually has a true physical form rather than the mana-constructed body of other servants, so that may allow him to enter the temple with ease. The final battleground of UBW was the lake, which is pretty far behind the temple. Gilgamesh may just walk through the barrier and get there without bothering Assassin.
I was under the impression that assassin knew of gil's presence, since he "let you both go to face him (or whoever it is). but saber must stay here to duel meh." and gil, I would assume he felt too important to take a detour from the main path. :P

It is kind of unclear in Heaven's Feel as who killed Assassin. Assassin just said the attacker is someone who strikes from the shadows. Is it Sakura? Rider? Or old man Zouken himself (unlikely to be him, but since True Assassin was summoned, we know he was there)?
most likely the zombie old man. he's still capable of conjuring magic to certain extent. sakura and rider don't seem to fit the scenario either.
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Unread postby Watashimo » December 22nd, 2008, 9:02 am

Raitei wrote:and gil, I would assume he felt too important to take a detour from the main path. :P

Lol, sounds so like Gil.

In Fate, Gil had Kotomine at his side, so it may have been Kotomine's decision to haxxor Assassin out of the route.
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Unread postby Shikiller » December 22nd, 2008, 11:45 pm

Kuzuki and Kojiro were killed by Gilgamesh at Ryuudoji , or at least that is what the characters remember in HA. Is Kuzuki still around in the Fate end? i don't quite remember.
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Unread postby inferno_flamex » December 23rd, 2008, 12:38 am

Shikiller wrote:Kuzuki and Kojiro were killed by Gilgamesh at Ryuudoji , or at least that is what the characters remember in HA. Is Kuzuki still around in the Fate end? i don't quite remember.


I speculate... a yes...
It was Caster that went to the Emiya household with her bunch of bones, and got utterly killed by Gil... I dont see how Kuzuki would do that...

And after knowing that caster died, Kuzuki could just leave the temple, live life like before.... before the final fight between Shirou/Saber VS Kotomine/Gil...

This is... from what i can remember..
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Unread postby Raitei » December 23rd, 2008, 3:14 am

Shikiller wrote:Kuzuki and Kojiro were killed by Gilgamesh at Ryuudoji , or at least that is what the characters remember in HA. Is Kuzuki still around in the Fate end? i don't quite remember.
mia. status unknown.
and caster doesn't show any hint that she ever met kuzuki in fate. and f/ha is not a continuation of one of the three routes, at least not specifically. we know not in which route (ilya route? anime route?) gil killed kuzuki and assassin in ryuudouji. (oh yes, anime route :P gil definitely killed kuzuki in anime route :P )
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Unread postby Xanathos » December 23rd, 2008, 3:29 am

Raitei wrote:probably the scenario went like this : knowing that saber is coming, assassin, who hoped for a good match let gil inside without any qualms, and gil too, went in quietly.


But Gil would also have been a good match as well. Or are you saying he wanted a contest of skill?
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Unread postby Raitei » December 23rd, 2008, 4:04 am

Xanathos wrote:
Raitei wrote:probably the scenario went like this : knowing that saber is coming, assassin, who hoped for a good match let gil inside without any qualms, and gil too, went in quietly.


But Gil would also have been a good match as well. Or are you saying he wanted a contest of skill?
yeah, contest of skill. being lacerated by thousands of swords wouldn't do assassin any good now, would it? :P
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