Quick question re Servants

It's alright, we feel your pain. Noone wants to admit being gar for Berserker.

Moderator: Staffers

Quick question re Servants

Unread postby Uthred » December 14th, 2008, 1:58 pm

Just to verify, Servants are entirely immune to damage that isnt a) magical, b) from a conceptual weapon, c) from other spirits/servants ? Do dead apostles etc. count as spirits?
User avatar
Uthred
Posting more than n00bs
 
Posts: 20
Joined: October 8th, 2008, 2:15 am
Location: Ireland

Unread postby Keeper of Gil's Vault » December 14th, 2008, 8:33 pm

What you said is true. They are also vulnerable to artifacts and phantasmal beasts, as they develop extraordinary abilities with the accumulation of age. Their abilities may seem magical, but they are independent of the system of magic employed by magi. Anything below the true ancestors are not spirits. Spirits are an extension of the World. The Dead Apostle Ancestors and Dead Apostles are..."derivatives". However, as we know, some of the Dead Apostle Ancestors do possess some abilities that match those of spirits, e.g. reality marbles. As a result, I will hazard a guess that they will dent a servant in combat. Don't over-estimate servants, they are just powerful familiars, modified versions of the true heroic spirits. Copies are not as good as the real deal. If the World decides to summon her own versions of the heroic spirits, then everyone should be afraid.
User avatar
Keeper of Gil's Vault
DESU DESU!
 
Posts: 501
Joined: July 15th, 2007, 2:49 pm

Unread postby Raitei » December 15th, 2008, 1:41 am

not to mention those embodiments of third magic are limited by prana... the more prana they get, the more abilities from their previous life can be performed, or vice versa.

and since they are made of prana, physical attacks from daa will not work. the one that counts is true ancestor. since they're considered faeries, their normal attacks might work against servants.
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
Fate/world providence
User avatar
Raitei
OMG! WTF WHO SET THIS TITLE! LULZ
 
Posts: 2277
Joined: August 7th, 2007, 12:26 pm
Location: Distant wilderness

Unread postby Prince6233 » December 16th, 2008, 3:43 pm

Raitei wrote:
not to mention those embodiments of third magic are limited by prana... the more prana they get, the more abilities from their previous life can be performed, or vice versa.

and since they are made of prana, physical attacks from daa will not work. the one that counts is true ancestor. since they're considered faeries, their normal attacks might work against servants.


Couldnt you simplify your words a bit more for the newcomers :wink:
Ban mido kicked the lightning emperors @$$
User avatar
Prince6233
Posting more than n00bs
 
Posts: 24
Joined: November 30th, 2008, 9:28 am
Location: Monkeystaan

Unread postby Raitei » December 16th, 2008, 3:45 pm

Prince6233 wrote:
Raitei wrote:
not to mention those embodiments of third magic are limited by prana... the more prana they get, the more abilities from their previous life can be performed, or vice versa.

and since they are made of prana, physical attacks from daa will not work. the one that counts is true ancestor. since they're considered faeries, their normal attacks might work against servants.


Couldnt you simplify your words a bit more for the newcomers :wink:
couldn't the newcomer in question buff up his knowledge 1st before joining in the discussion?

note : this is not a flamebait. this is a serious statement.
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
Fate/world providence
User avatar
Raitei
OMG! WTF WHO SET THIS TITLE! LULZ
 
Posts: 2277
Joined: August 7th, 2007, 12:26 pm
Location: Distant wilderness

Unread postby Prince6233 » December 16th, 2008, 3:48 pm

Raitei wrote:
Prince6233 wrote:
Raitei wrote:
not to mention those embodiments of third magic are limited by prana... the more prana they get, the more abilities from their previous life can be performed, or vice versa.

and since they are made of prana, physical attacks from daa will not work. the one that counts is true ancestor. since they're considered faeries, their normal attacks might work against servants.


Couldnt you simplify your words a bit more for the newcomers :wink:
couldn't the newcomer in question buff up his knowledge 1st before joining in the discussion?

note : this is not a flamebait. this is a serious statement.


Is that knowledge gonna give you higher marks in S.A.T :lol: in that case ok the newcomer wil be studying hard :lol:
Ban mido kicked the lightning emperors @$$
User avatar
Prince6233
Posting more than n00bs
 
Posts: 24
Joined: November 30th, 2008, 9:28 am
Location: Monkeystaan

Unread postby Raitei » December 16th, 2008, 3:52 pm

Prince6233 wrote:Is that knowledge gonna give you higher marks in S.A.T :lol: in that case ok the newcomer wil be studying hard :lol:
oh yes. I reached 2040 in sat partly thanks to reading f/sn and joining in mm forums.

and (even though it's partly of my own mistake) stop derailing off topic please. I would have twice the post count I have now if I were to explain each and every information to newcomers. (yeah, I'm exaggerating about the count part, but still)
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
Fate/world providence
User avatar
Raitei
OMG! WTF WHO SET THIS TITLE! LULZ
 
Posts: 2277
Joined: August 7th, 2007, 12:26 pm
Location: Distant wilderness

Unread postby Keeper of Gil's Vault » December 16th, 2008, 4:31 pm

The third magic he is referring to is the "materialization of the souls" of the von Einzberns. Said souls may include those of the past legendary heroes. However, the third true magic has been lost for over a millennium, and the whole grail war is a facade used by the von Einzberns to recover their lost magic. The servants are a flawed manifestation of the third magic, as they are weakened copies of the original that must be sustained by an incomprehensible amount of mana (supplied by the grail, Justica von Einzbern, and the upkeep is done by the masters). The reason the war is every 60 years is due the fact that it takes the grail this long to accumulate the mana required. The 6th grail war only had a 10-year delay because the last grail was destroyed before the accumulated mana was used.

Although materialization of the servant takes mana, but the servant themselves are a even greater source of mana. The immense amount of mana of the defeated servants is actually what powers the wish fulfillment characteristic of the grail. So the grail uses a relative small amount of mana (still a lot), to bait out an even larger amount of mana. An analogy will be hauling a load of coal to a location to be burned. Hauling the coal takes a large amount of energy, this is analogous to the job of the grail. Burning the coal releases many, many times the amount of energy spent hauling the coal (consuming the defeated servants for use by the grail). As you can see, servants must all be defeated in order to collect their mana, that is why the grail war is a death match.

So, for a summoned servant, everything takes mana, since they are essentially moving blobs of mana. The more mana they have, the more they can employ the skills they utilized when they were alive. An analogy will be a water gun. The more water you can pour in, the more powerful the blast that will come out. Since they are spiritual beings made of mana, physical attacks or any attacks that do not employ/interact with mana will have no effect. However, objects or beings that have accumulated age and mysteries have effects analogous to magic, thus will be able to harm spiritual beings.

True ancestors are REAL spirits, extensions of the World, so they will be able to harm servants, who are also spirits.

Dead Apostle Ancestors are essentially past minions/familiars of the True Ancestors that have become free. They gained their power from the True Ancestors (there are unorthodox ones like Nero, but let's not get into that). As a result, they are not true spirits. However, these individuals are usually very talented and driven by their strong desires. The immortality granted them time to develop abilities that match of those of demon and spirits. Reality marble is an ability that is innate to spirits of the World, as they are extensions of the world, they are free to rewrite its reality. However, such an ability is rare in any other beings. All the DAA's known have reality marbles, and some of them can even summon their own personal demons. Therefore, it is not hard to conclude that they will be able to battle the servants despite the fact that vampires are not really spirits.

Hope this helps. If things are still unclear, try browsing the Beast's Lair forum, it is much more in depth, folks like Arair and Le Baiken are a lot more knowledgeable than any of us.
User avatar
Keeper of Gil's Vault
DESU DESU!
 
Posts: 501
Joined: July 15th, 2007, 2:49 pm

Unread postby Uthred » December 17th, 2008, 2:53 am

Thanks for the responses. To be honest Keeper's original response confirmed the information I was interested in, though his expansion on it further down was certainly welcome. The other responses were of course welcome and somewhat informative. However if people feel its a chore to illuminate the "uneducated" I would prefer they didnt. And tragically Im both the wrong age and in the wrong country to have F/SN knowledge help with my SATS ;)
User avatar
Uthred
Posting more than n00bs
 
Posts: 20
Joined: October 8th, 2008, 2:15 am
Location: Ireland


Return to Fate/stay night Chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest

cron