About the Hero system...(Hmm..)

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Unread postby Keeper of Gil's Vault » December 15th, 2008, 1:36 am

Gilgamesh was a hero, he bound the Bull of Heaven and built the great walls of Uruk. Hassan was an anti-hero. It literally said on the status screen "anti-hero". Yes, all heroes have some flaws, but their main deeds/achievements were positive. Anti-heroes are defined by their negative/evil deeds.
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Unread postby Rikh » December 15th, 2008, 2:51 am

Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:Gilgamesh was a hero, he bound the Bull of Heaven and built the great walls of Uruk. Hassan was an anti-hero. It literally said on the status screen "anti-hero". Yes, all heroes have some flaws, but their main deeds/achievements were positive. Anti-heroes are defined by their negative/evil deeds.

you missed my point..... -_-

Gilgamesh was an example... All he wanted in the Fate/UBW/HF routes was to basically cleanse the world of useless people. In the end it leads to greater good from one point of view, which could make him an anti-hero from some perspectives... I'm not saying he is an anti-hero, but you can look at it differently

Angra mainyu for example... He is considered a hero because he saved his town.
How did he do this?
Well you can look at it from 2 perspectives
Hero = He took all the sins from all the people onto himself, creating a hole where everybody else could be openly happy, his sacrifice was how he died and purified/saved his town
Anti-Hero = He was an evil person, whom if you killed could grant the town peace

honestly it depends on the majorities perspective on someone for their hero/anti-hero status
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Unread postby Raitei » December 15th, 2008, 1:13 pm

Rikh wrote:
Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:Gilgamesh was a hero, he bound the Bull of Heaven and built the great walls of Uruk. Hassan was an anti-hero. It literally said on the status screen "anti-hero". Yes, all heroes have some flaws, but their main deeds/achievements were positive. Anti-heroes are defined by their negative/evil deeds.

you missed my point..... -_-

Gilgamesh was an example... All he wanted in the Fate/UBW/HF routes was to basically cleanse the world of useless people. In the end it leads to greater good from one point of view, which could make him an anti-hero from some perspectives... I'm not saying he is an anti-hero, but you can look at it differently

Angra mainyu for example... He is considered a hero because he saved his town.
How did he do this?
Well you can look at it from 2 perspectives
Hero = He took all the sins from all the people onto himself, creating a hole where everybody else could be openly happy, his sacrifice was how he died and purified/saved his town
Anti-Hero = He was an evil person, whom if you killed could grant the town peace

honestly it depends on the majorities perspective on someone for their hero/anti-hero status
that's right. that's why legends also play a determinant role in defining a hero's concept; evil aligned "heroic spirits" are not heroic spirits... at least, that is what humans in general believe. that's why prior to the 3rd heaven's feel, no evil aligned eirei could be summoned.

(behold, the power of faith / belief?)
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
Fate/world providence
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Unread postby Keeper of Gil's Vault » December 15th, 2008, 10:06 pm

Evil-aligned spirits can be heroic spirits, that is the whole point of the anti-hero concept. The Hassans are lawfully evil, but they are still true heroic spirits. They were there since the class system was set up, before the grail was polluted (at the VERY LEAST since Heaven's Feel 2). Also, Gilgamesh's wish to purge the current humanity was developed after he was summoned, because he realized modern humans are rather useless. During his time, he was mostly a good king, with the aid of Enkidu, hence he is still "good".

Of course personal perspectives are important, I will not argue with that, but the alignment of each hero is in the status screen, and that is how the grail/World define them.
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