Page 16 of 17

Unread postPosted: January 25th, 2009, 7:15 pm
by Rikh
Mazyrian wrote:
Rikh wrote:I mean if Gil went full force on shooting shiro with swords, then that means Shiro is equal to gilgamesh on sword production (for a short period of time), so it could be very possible for Archer to beat Berserker. All he has to do is stay at a safe range, and continuously rain swords down on Berserker, although it would cost him a lot, he could definitely do it, as shiro was able to do the same with less than half the strength and mana of Archer

Anyways, i think its very possible for Archer to beat Berserker if he really needed to, if he fights the same way Gil does, and is fine with using a lot of mana, he could possibly kill berserker in the same fashion.


It wouldn't be that easy to stay at safe range; Berserker is one of the fastest Servants. And one hit from him is game over for Archer


Good point... i guess to prevent a charge from Garzerker.... Archer could spawn Rho Aius during a charge to make him bump into it for a sec...

anyways, can you trace weapons inside of objects? i remember shiro taking careful consideration during early fate/ubw to not trace kansho and byakua into his hands during his fight with kuzuki. Although he can fuze weapons to his body parts, which has been proven during ubw a few times...

Anyways, could Archer spawn a broken Phantasm inside of Berserker if in close enough contact?

Unread postPosted: January 25th, 2009, 7:22 pm
by Vhailor
He can't spam Rho Aius, it cost is high :( . Three times higher.
And i don't think Archer can spam something. He hasn't enough prana for it i guess.

Unread postPosted: January 26th, 2009, 12:57 am
by Shourai
Vhailor wrote:He can't spam Rho Aius, it cost is high :( . Three times higher.
And i don't think Archer can spam something. He hasn't enough prana for it i guess.
He can spam rain of sword and Broken Phantasms. Rain of swords costs no more when he entered UBW the Reality Marble. Broken Phantasm costs far lower than the actual activation of the Noble Phantasm.

@Qaynan : sure, he can predict and make the situation that the bullet was never shot. But that is considering the situation fits for him. Let me say this once more: just because there is 1% that can be exploited doesn't mean that 1% becomes 100%. In case there's plot armor that's convenient for him, like in UBW, fine, he can do it. But when the situation just doesn't kick in, like in Fate and HF, he's screwed. Simple and clean.

Also, I would like to emphasize once again that Saber Class is considered the strongest. Canon source stated that, so if you want to argue, you don't argue with me; you argue with Nasu. Just because there's Gil in Archer class doesn't make it the strongest class ever. That's called "hasty generalization".

Unread postPosted: January 26th, 2009, 4:26 am
by Qaynan
Shourai wrote:
Vhailor wrote:He can't spam Rho Aius, it cost is high :( . Three times higher.
And i don't think Archer can spam something. He hasn't enough prana for it i guess.
He can spam rain of sword and Broken Phantasms. Rain of swords costs no more when he entered UBW the Reality Marble. Broken Phantasm costs far lower than the actual activation of the Noble Phantasm.

@Qaynan : sure, he can predict and make the situation that the bullet was never shot. But that is considering the situation fits for him. Let me say this once more: just because there is 1% that can be exploited doesn't mean that 1% becomes 100%. In case there's plot armor that's convenient for him, like in UBW, fine, he can do it. But when the situation just doesn't kick in, like in Fate and HF, he's screwed. Simple and clean.

Also, I would like to emphasize once again that Saber Class is considered the strongest. Canon source stated that, so if you want to argue, you don't argue with me; you argue with Nasu. Just because there's Gil in Archer class doesn't make it the strongest class ever. That's called "hasty generalization".

I never said eye of the mind is that hax. It's a good ability that can give him an edge in a lot of situations though. I mean even Shirou managed to best Saber at swordsmanship using Archers experience in one of the dead ends. (sure she was going easy on him by not using an excaliblast... but neither did he use any hax NP. so it was a pretty fair sword fight where saber should have had the edge). Of course, sometimes it's not enough... But it still is a good ability to have.

And I wasn't arguing with anyone about the saber class being the strongest or not. I'm just stating my personal preference. I honestly like the Archer class much more. It's much more versatile, and corresponds to my way of thinking. And in a way, the Archer class is probably the natural enemy of the Saber one. I like to think of the classes in a more rock/paper/scissors way that in absolute strongest.

Unread postPosted: January 26th, 2009, 5:31 am
by Xanathos
Shourai wrote:
Also, I would like to emphasize once again that Saber Class is considered the strongest. Canon source stated that, so if you want to argue, you don't argue with me; you argue with Nasu. Just because there's Gil in Archer class doesn't make it the strongest class ever. That's called "hasty generalization".




The funny thing is there is only one saber. The reason being Arthuria's contract with the world. If there is a opportunity to obtain the holy grail, she will be summoned. Therefore, she has been summoned during each of the grail wars (assuming there isn't any oddities such as with assassin.

Unread postPosted: January 26th, 2009, 5:43 am
by Kid-Wolf
Well that may be true,
but they did say that there was I think in the 3rd HF war that a Saber class was summoned twice use to the fact it had something to do with the sisters involved in the war, and not only that but it could explain Dark Saber in a way as well. In any case it could be the posibiltiy that a catalyst wasn't found until the 4th HF war.

Unread postPosted: January 26th, 2009, 6:23 am
by that one guy
I'm pretty sure Saber has only been in 2 Heavens Feels. The 4th and the 5th. The reason being that a catalyst to summon her hadn't been found until the Einzberns got it.

Unread postPosted: January 26th, 2009, 9:39 am
by Shourai
Xanathos wrote:The funny thing is there is only one saber. The reason being Arthuria's contract with the world. If there is a opportunity to obtain the holy grail, she will be summoned. Therefore, she has been summoned during each of the grail wars (assuming there isn't any oddities such as with assassin.
Lolwut? Arturia was summoned twice (twice, and not more. she said that herself) because the two summoners in question use the same catalyst. HF3 Saber wasn't Arturia mind you.

that one guy's got it right.

Unread postPosted: January 26th, 2009, 1:56 pm
by Kid-Wolf
Shourai wrote:
Xanathos wrote:The funny thing is there is only one saber. The reason being Arthuria's contract with the world. If there is a opportunity to obtain the holy grail, she will be summoned. Therefore, she has been summoned during each of the grail wars (assuming there isn't any oddities such as with assassin.
Lolwut? Arturia was summoned twice (twice, and not more. she said that herself) because the two summoners in question use the same catalyst. HF3 Saber wasn't Arturia mind you.

that one guy's got it right.


Yeah I kind of thought that.
Besides it is hard to belive that Saber was the same Saber in every Grail War. Although she probablly didn't know about the war over the Grail until she was Summoned in the 4th War. After that she might be the only Saber to be summoned in any Grail War from now on since her pact with the world and all.

Unread postPosted: January 26th, 2009, 2:53 pm
by Xamdou
If she had her obtain the holy grail and redo the selection of king , won't she disappear forever from the Holy Grail War? It will then affect the outcome of 4th and 5th heaven's feel right?

Unread postPosted: January 26th, 2009, 3:12 pm
by spathi
thought about that too

though if she is placed at the throne of heroes does that mean there would be 2 King Arthurs? :shock:

Unread postPosted: January 26th, 2009, 3:14 pm
by Kikuchi
Xamdou wrote:
If she had her obtain the holy grail and redo the selection of king , won't she disappear forever from the Holy Grail War? It will then affect the outcome of 4th and 5th heaven's feel right?
Yeah, but she didn't obtain the Grail in 4th War. She had only been liberated in the end of Fate route, so by time-wise, that would not affect any Grail Wars from the 1st to the 5th. (actually, 1 to 3 don't really count since she wasn't there)

Unread postPosted: January 26th, 2009, 3:14 pm
by Xamdou
spathi wrote:
thought about that too

though if she is placed at the throne of heroes does that mean there would be 2 King Arthurs? :shock:
If Shirou gets a male Saber and he ran out of mana and the only way to refill the mana won't be to have sex ....... ah , don't even think about it , its so disgusting :x

Unread postPosted: January 26th, 2009, 3:20 pm
by Kikuchi
Xamdou wrote:
spathi wrote:
thought about that too

though if she is placed at the throne of heroes does that mean there would be 2 King Arthurs? :shock:
If Shirou gets a male Saber and he ran out of mana and the only way to refill the mana won't be to have sex ....... ah , don't even think about it , its so disgusting :x
That way, the one who would summon King Arthur would not be Shirou but Ayaka Sajyou. Also, back to topic guys. :wink:

Unread postPosted: January 26th, 2009, 3:23 pm
by Xamdou
The Saber could be the all mighty Abe Takakazu :wink: He might be the strongest of the Saber class servant

Unread postPosted: January 27th, 2009, 4:52 am
by Rikh
Xamdou wrote:The Saber could be the all mighty Abe Takakazu :wink: He might be the strongest of the Saber class servant


off topic: Xamdou... im reading the same manga in your avatar, lol. Nice ;)

Back on Topic: Wont all servants just be killed/saved due to plot restrictions? honestly, if there were more routes in the game, the remaining servants would seem much stronger than originally. I have to say, any servant can beat another servant if the plot wills them to... the fights in the game are side-elements to the essential storyline of the game

Unread postPosted: January 27th, 2009, 4:54 am
by Xamdou
Rikh wrote:
Xamdou wrote:The Saber could be the all mighty Abe Takakazu :wink: He might be the strongest of the Saber class servant


off topic: Xamdou... im reading the same manga in your avatar, lol. Nice ;)

Back on Topic: Wont all servants just be killed/saved due to plot restrictions? honestly, if there were more routes in the game, the remaining servants would seem much stronger than originally. I have to say, any servant can beat another servant if the plot wills them to... the fights in the game are side-elements to the essential storyline of the game

off-topic: That manga is kinda cute and confusing but i haven't read all the chapter yet :(
on-topic: there is just too many possible routes due to the limitless parallel world , if only there could be Unlimited Route Work.....

Unread postPosted: January 27th, 2009, 6:21 am
by Keeper of Gil's Vault
Old Man Zel had Unlimited Route Works down when he was at his prime, but we are kind of lacking in info as to what he can and cannot do with his true magic. For example, how his magic interferes with the other versions of Zel's in the parallel universes. Who knows, since he mastered the magic, there may even be just ONE Zel amongst all parallel universes.

Unread postPosted: February 8th, 2009, 2:01 pm
by -Shiki-
Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:Old Man Zel had Unlimited Route Works down when he was at his prime, but we are kind of lacking in info as to what he can and cannot do with his true magic. For example, how his magic interferes with the other versions of Zel's in the parallel universes. Who knows, since he mastered the magic, there may even be just ONE Zel amongst all parallel universes.

there cant be 1 Zel..physically and logically impossible..even if he can perform true magic, the fact that only 1 of him exist is prety much....unacceptable..(juz seems so to me so ignore me if you dont care)
besides, different outcome happens in alternate universe..who knows, Zel might be dead in an alternate universe, nerd in another or even not born..(another random stuff..i'm too bored now)

anddddd...why is gil ranked the strongest????!! his GARness does not even reach the knee of archer :roll:

Unread postPosted: February 8th, 2009, 2:12 pm
by allanh
-Shiki- wrote:
Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:anddddd...why is gil ranked the strongest????!! his GARness does not even reach the knee of archer :roll:


because his Ea just pawns everything except for Saber's Avalon and Ea seems to be much lower mana-intensive than Avalon (Gilga used it multiple times in 1 fight with ease).