Most Powerful Servant [Spoilers]

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Who is the most powerful servant overall?

Poll ended at December 1st, 2008, 2:31 am

Saber
7
10%
Lancer
4
6%
Berserker
3
4%
Archer
21
29%
Caster
1
1%
Assassin (Sasaki)
1
1%
Rider
4
6%
Dark Saber
5
7%
Gilgamesh
25
35%
Hassan
1
1%
 
Total votes: 72

Catastrophe
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Unread post by Catastrophe » January 17th, 2009, 10:32 pm

Rikh wrote: Archer beat Lancer in a fair fight, although exhausted, within about 2 minutes he went inside, fought off saber, and executed Unlimited Blade Works.
...................huh???

perhaps you meant:

"Archer was almost destroyed by Gae Bolg, but Lancer didnt finish him because Rin asked him not to kill archer, although exhausted, within about 2 minutes he went inside, killed Caster with a backstab, fended off a mana-depleted Saber, and couldnt kill Shirou even executing UBW"

:?
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Rikh
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Unread post by Rikh » January 17th, 2009, 11:41 pm

Catastrophe wrote:
Rikh wrote: Archer beat Lancer in a fair fight, although exhausted, within about 2 minutes he went inside, fought off saber, and executed Unlimited Blade Works.
...................huh???

perhaps you meant:

"Archer was almost destroyed by Gae Bolg, but Lancer didnt finish him because Rin asked him not to kill archer, although exhausted, within about 2 minutes he went inside, killed Caster with a backstab, fended off a mana-depleted Saber, and couldnt kill Shirou even executing UBW"

:?
umm you probably meant

Archer totally prevented an reality altering attack, stopping lancers greatest ability. Not only that, but it was lancers most powerful form of Gae Bolg withdrawing more mana than the normal amount for the stab. Archer could have continued on rather easily if he performed that well two minutes later, the fact of the matter is, lancer as also more exhausted than he threw himself out to be ;) anywho i think archer could have beaten lancer in that fight

he then went back inside, killed his master who supplied him with mana, fought saber...whom was instant mana recharged with tohsaka (she was more powerful than any other form of saber), he then casted UBW in which he was capable of tracing Excalibur and blowing them all away (or having saber do the same for a big nuke...)

All of this running on low prana, injuries, and no connection to a master O_O
archer is stronger than he is thrown out to be ;)

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Unread post by Kid-Wolf » January 18th, 2009, 12:03 am

Well even if Archer could trace Excalibur there is no way he could deal around the same dammage that Saber could with either Shirou or Rin as her Master. In any case they enver really had him try and do such a thing to begin with since prossible contradictions, or a massive plot hole would ensue.

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Unread post by nobaka » January 18th, 2009, 12:58 am

I forgot. Shirou+Garm traced Excalibur and used its wave-motion powers to destroy the Greater Grail, didn't he.

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Unread post by Rikh » January 18th, 2009, 1:16 am

Kid-Wolf wrote:Well even if Archer could trace Excalibur there is no way he could deal around the same dammage that Saber could with either Shirou or Rin as her Master. In any case they enver really had him try and do such a thing to begin with since prossible contradictions, or a massive plot hole would ensue.
the point was that archer could trace excalibur and use it during that situation. It wont beat Sabers Excaliblast since, well hers is the original, and it has a global rank up compared to Archers. Archer is also a owner but not a wielder, so even if they had the same rank, he would not be able to fight on as strong terms as saber. (he also only threatened the attack due to the fact that when both excaliburs would be used, it would wipe out everybody besides saber mainly)
i was just pointing out that Archer did this like 2 minutes after the fight with Lancer... which should seem utterly impossible, which implies out that Archers strengths are not as fully limited as the lancer fight portrayed

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Unread post by Shourai » January 18th, 2009, 1:38 am

Rikh wrote:umm you probably meant

Archer totally prevented an reality altering attack, stopping lancers greatest ability. Not only that, but it was lancers most powerful form of Gae Bolg withdrawing more mana than the normal amount for the stab. Archer could have continued on rather easily if he performed that well two minutes later, the fact of the matter is, lancer as also more exhausted than he threw himself out to be ;) anywho i think archer could have beaten lancer in that fight

he then went back inside, killed his master who supplied him with mana, fought saber...whom was instant mana recharged with tohsaka (she was more powerful than any other form of saber), he then casted UBW in which he was capable of tracing Excalibur and blowing them all away (or having saber do the same for a big nuke...)

All of this running on low prana, injuries, and no connection to a master O_O
archer is stronger than he is thrown out to be ;)
Probably this is due to the fact that Avalon was never removed from his body. Archer doesn't have Prana Burst like Saber, so speeding up healing is impossible without external factor. Also, you're totally overestimating Archer. His arm was blown off; his whole body was screwed and he was in the verge of death when he stopped Gae Bolg. With Lancer's speed and strength, he could have easily owned Archer if he wanted to. Hell, Lancer isn't even panting after he threw his lance.

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Unread post by Rikh » January 18th, 2009, 2:33 am

Shourai wrote:
Rikh wrote:umm you probably meant

Archer totally prevented an reality altering attack, stopping lancers greatest ability. Not only that, but it was lancers most powerful form of Gae Bolg withdrawing more mana than the normal amount for the stab. Archer could have continued on rather easily if he performed that well two minutes later, the fact of the matter is, lancer as also more exhausted than he threw himself out to be ;) anywho i think archer could have beaten lancer in that fight

he then went back inside, killed his master who supplied him with mana, fought saber...whom was instant mana recharged with tohsaka (she was more powerful than any other form of saber), he then casted UBW in which he was capable of tracing Excalibur and blowing them all away (or having saber do the same for a big nuke...)

All of this running on low prana, injuries, and no connection to a master O_O
archer is stronger than he is thrown out to be ;)
Probably this is due to the fact that Avalon was never removed from his body. Archer doesn't have Prana Burst like Saber, so speeding up healing is impossible without external factor. Also, you're totally overestimating Archer. His arm was blown off; his whole body was screwed and he was in the verge of death when he stopped Gae Bolg. With Lancer's speed and strength, he could have easily owned Archer if he wanted to. Hell, Lancer isn't even panting after he threw his lance.
well its only really implied avalon is in his body, and im just stating that Archer is stronger than people might think. After all, he was fully ready to fight against Saber and use UBW within like 2 minutes after his fight with Lancer, which was an impressive feat.
also your implying Archer is able to still use Avalon to heal his wounds. If thats true, then Archer could have just traced it during the fight, seeing as he would be able to use avalon without a connection to saber

Also Lancers attack is probably the hardest attack to 'block' in the game, as any normal defense would never work against Gae Bolg

Im not overestimating him, im just stating that if Archer pulled out his trump cards at once, Lancer can be beaten by him. Archer had a large amount of BP left to use, and enough strength to activate UBW. While lancer exhausted his NP's ability and was only left with regular attacks in the end. Under normal circumstances, Archer>Lancer. If its a range fight however, its lancers victory due to Lancers almost impenetrable immunity to ranged attacks.

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Unread post by Xamdou » January 18th, 2009, 2:57 am

Instead of having an absolute defence to block Gae Bolg , high instinct and luck helps alot too though the chance are like 50-50
Saber having Rin as master will just do the trick :wink:
Edit: Both Shirou just lack of luck everytime :(
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In my service to you , I shall never know rest.
To prove my devotion , I have stolen this ostentatious offering.
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Shourai
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Unread post by Shourai » January 18th, 2009, 3:33 am

Rikh wrote:well its only really implied avalon is in his body, and im just stating that Archer is stronger than people might think. After all, he was fully ready to fight against Saber and use UBW within like 2 minutes after his fight with Lancer, which was an impressive feat.
also your implying Archer is able to still use Avalon to heal his wounds. If thats true, then Archer could have just traced it during the fight, seeing as he would be able to use avalon without a connection to saber
First, it is clear that Archer does not know about the details of Avalon. If not, like said many times before, he could just tell Shirou to trace it and/or give it back to Saber instead of talking shit like "Emiya Shirou is the natural enemy of King of Heroes; only you can defeat him, etc, etc..". He has infinite experiences of battles anyway, which would mean he knew it's the best way of kicking Gil's arse instead of risking a fight like the UBW Final.
Im not overestimating him, im just stating that if Archer pulled out his trump cards at once, Lancer can be beaten by him. Archer had a large amount of BP left to use, and enough strength to activate UBW. While lancer exhausted his NP's ability and was only left with regular attacks in the end. Under normal circumstances, Archer>Lancer. If its a range fight however, its lancers victory due to Lancers almost impenetrable immunity to ranged attacks.
Lancer's the best dasher in the game; Archer would not have the time to aim the Broken Phantasm at him and would be screwed the moment he decided to do so. The best he can hope is holding him off in a melee combat, while waiting for his opponent to make mistakes and seize his openings. Or maybe he can trace Caladbolg (the original) and make Lancer kneel before it. Oh, and since Broken Phantasms explode, Protection against Projectiles is pretty much useless. But Lancer can still dodge it by dashing or jumping.

Oh, and don't you seem to reverse the position of Archer vs Lancer? If it's under normal circumstances, Lancer would win. But if it's ranged fight, Archer would win. He's Archer anyways. Lancer's one of the best Servants in the game you know. Some nameless, average Hero like Archer is no fair comparison for him to begin with under "normal circumstances".

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Unread post by BlackTornado » January 18th, 2009, 3:43 am

About gae bolg. The Spear of Death Flight is not the same as Impaling barbed death. The former is a cannon, while the latter is a sniper. The causality reversal is more pronounced in the latter. The throwing spear probably does not miss, but it does not have the implication the the enemy is hit no matter what. Plus, Rho Aius is designed to stop thrown spears, so against Death Flight its at its strongest.

The first time archer met lancer, had shirou not interrupted, i am convinced that archer would have died. Nothing he has can counter Impaling barbed death, and his luck is bad. Even if he can survive the first, lancer has enough mana to cast it 6 more times... So there, Archer may be resourceful and has many tricks up his sleeve, he does not have a really good move to ko the enemy. He must try very hard, and exploit every single opportunity presented to him (or create the openings himself) in order to have any chance of winning against most servants.

about avalon, he probably does not know its inside him. He may know of avalon, but would not know what it does.
*Edit ^ what he said :) and no, Caladbolg geas only hold true if the wielder is another Irishman.
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Unread post by shirou12 » January 18th, 2009, 4:21 am

well archer still has good luck because of shirou's appearance during his first fight with lancer.

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Unread post by BlackTornado » January 18th, 2009, 4:47 am

haha... Well, if you put it that way....

but seriously, if he get Gae Bolged he would die. Fullstop.
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Unread post by shirou12 » January 18th, 2009, 4:58 am

I think he has a trick on his sleeve to counter that, after all he is not an idiot to stand there watching himself die while his master on his back.

Catastrophe
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Unread post by Catastrophe » January 18th, 2009, 4:58 am

Rikh wrote: umm you probably meant

Archer totally prevented an reality altering attack, stopping lancers greatest ability. Not only that, but it was lancers most powerful form of Gae Bolg withdrawing more mana than the normal amount for the stab. Archer could have continued on rather easily if he performed that well two minutes later, the fact of the matter is, lancer as also more exhausted than he threw himself out to be ;) anywho i think archer could have beaten lancer in that fight
no.......and Aius was destroyed
► Show Spoiler
if it werent because of Rin's request, Archer was dead the next second, period.


and like i said, how dificult can it be to kill by a backstab (or several of them :roll: ) the less melee-combat-experienced servant out there?
Rikh wrote:Im not overestimating him, im just stating that if Archer pulled out his trump cards at once, Lancer can be beaten by him. Archer had a large amount of BP left to use, and enough strength to activate UBW. While lancer exhausted his NP's ability and was only left with regular attacks in the end. Under normal circumstances, Archer>Lancer. If its a range fight however, its lancers victory due to Lancers almost impenetrable immunity to ranged attacks.
that was not made clear....it just seemed that lancer glared at archer (in obvious amazement)and, let the hook off him, but never said anything of him not being able to pull another shot (even if he could not perform "thrusting lance" he could have used "piercing lance" mode)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
shirou12 wrote:well archer still has good luck because of shirou's appearance during his first fight with lancer.
that only shows that "Emiya" has the worst luck out there :P (zomg, paradox)
Last edited by Catastrophe on January 18th, 2009, 5:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Unread post by Xanathos » January 18th, 2009, 5:10 am

Catastrophe wrote:
Rikh wrote: umm you probably meant

Archer totally prevented an reality altering attack, stopping lancers greatest ability. Not only that, but it was lancers most powerful form of Gae Bolg withdrawing more mana than the normal amount for the stab. Archer could have continued on rather easily if he performed that well two minutes later, the fact of the matter is, lancer as also more exhausted than he threw himself out to be ;) anywho i think archer could have beaten lancer in that fight
no.......and Aius was destroyed
► Show Spoiler
if it werent because of Rin's request, Archer was death the next second, period.


and like i said, how dificult can it be to kill by a backstab (or several of them :roll: ) the less melee-combat-experienced servant out there?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
shirou12 wrote:well archer still has good luck because of shirou's appearance during his first fight with lancer.
that only shows that "Emiya" has the worst luck out there :P (zomg, paradox)
What's with that gui? (off topic I know)

Catastrophe
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Unread post by Catastrophe » January 18th, 2009, 5:16 am

Xanathos wrote: What's with that gui? (off topic I know)
Ubuntu 8.10 Intrepid Ibex (best O.S. known to humanity)

second best......it seems 8.04 is better :roll:
"We want a game that's going to chop us the second we screw around, or just flatten us at its whim... until we finally beat it. They demand more of us, and we rise to the occasion because we're that good. And that feels good. And that's why we game."
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Unread post by Qaynan » January 18th, 2009, 6:40 am

Although I agree that most people tend to over estimate Archer's power because of his GARness. I think you guys here are suffering from the opposite condition for some reason.
I mean seriously... in UBW:
► Show Spoiler
P.S.
Yeah Ubuntu 8.04 is an awesome distro. But you're running FSN on wine?

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Unread post by Xamdou » January 18th, 2009, 6:51 am

Also think about his age , forcing an old man to fight too much might break his back :wink:
Edit: being the bone of his sword doesn't mean his bone won't hurt because of old age
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Unread post by Vhailor » January 18th, 2009, 11:11 am

Protection from arrows only works at close range. In the status, it says :
"However it cannot be used against a direct attack from a distance, and it also cannot be used against a wide range attack that hits many."

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Unread post by Sepheriel » January 18th, 2009, 11:46 am

Archer has terrible stats. It is amazing he lasted so long against Lancer at all. Lancer has high agility and Archer does not, nor does Archer have any good luck or strength. His ONLY strong points are UBW and his tracing. If it was a serious fight between him and Lancer, Saber, Berserker, or Assassin for that matter, where the next attack had to kill the other, Archer would die every time to each of them. It is because his stats pale compared to the others. Yes, if he was given the time to chant UBW then he would fight rather well, but if I was a master of either of the previously mentioned servants, I would have them kill him as fast as possible. Hell, Saber after being grazed by Gae Bolg WTFpwns Archer when they fight the first time. The only thing that saves him is Rin having him disappear. I think it is a little odd that it takes Archer a long time to recover from Saber's wound at the very beginning yet recovers really fast from his fight with Lancer (one with Rho Aius) and his fight with Gil. Sort of inconsistent in his healing powers. All in all, based on stats alone Archer is just bad. Hell, Rider has better stats than he does, in all routes. I think Archer is overestimated. I have a little better respect for Gilgamesh but I don't think he is as good as everyone thinks he is. If we were going by the previous Holy Grail War's stats for Saber and Gil then they would undoubtedly be the best; obviously because they were the last two remaining in the end.
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