Most Powerful Servant [Spoilers]

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Who is the most powerful servant overall?

Poll ended at December 1st, 2008, 2:31 am

Saber
7
10%
Lancer
4
6%
Berserker
3
4%
Archer
21
29%
Caster
1
1%
Assassin (Sasaki)
1
1%
Rider
4
6%
Dark Saber
5
7%
Gilgamesh
25
35%
Hassan
1
1%
 
Total votes: 72

Watashimo
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Unread post by Watashimo » December 6th, 2008, 4:26 pm

Which is why I was disappointed when Lancer didn't use Gae Bolg the instant he started fighting Gilgamesh in the Fate route. He could have won! Though, I don't think he expected to be chained by HAX and then stabbity in the heart all within a matter of like 30 seconds.
"Hah, I see, I see! Yeah, thats so much more important than who my master is! You're right, kid!" - Lancer
"Therefore, give me tea." - Okazaki Tomoya.

Keeper of Gil's Vault
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Unread post by Keeper of Gil's Vault » December 7th, 2008, 1:47 am

Don't forget, although Gae Bolg grants a heart-piercing hit when invoked, it is still subject to the "hierarchy of mystery" rule. A more ancient or powerful mystery can still nullify Gae Bolg. Gilgamesh probably has some stuff besides Erikidu that can counter it.

Rikh
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Unread post by Rikh » December 7th, 2008, 5:38 am

Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:Don't forget, although Gae Bolg grants a heart-piercing hit when invoked, it is still subject to the "hierarchy of mystery" rule. A more ancient or powerful mystery can still nullify Gae Bolg. Gilgamesh probably has some stuff besides Erikidu that can counter it.
yah... but nullifying gae bolg is incredibly hard

Even if gilgamesh pull out 5 Ea's and used them at once, Gae Bolg would still kill Gilgamesh
Gilgamesh needs an item like Rho Aias that has the ability to protect the owner, or avoid an alternation of process and effect, plus it has to be a higher rank
Almost any sword with abilities gil would have, i would doubt have a good chance of intervening with Gae Bolgs effect

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Unread post by BlackTornado » December 7th, 2008, 6:32 am

Mkilbride wrote:Yeah, they say it's a reversal of fortune attack, it doesn't have to pierce his armor or anything, all he has to do is SAY it and then bam, it'll be in his heart. Somehow, Archer managed to do something impossible. It's not like you can BLOCK a attack that just APPEARS inside your chest. It's not super fast or anything, it will actually, all of a sudden, be in your heart.
actually the one archer blocked is throwing spear of death flight, which emphasizes power over accuracy. So, its ability is not to hit your heart, but blow your entire body away. that can be blocked by rho aias. Impaling spear cannot be blocked by rho aias on the other hand.
fourFyFSIX

Watashimo
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Unread post by Watashimo » December 7th, 2008, 6:35 am

BlackTornado wrote:
Mkilbride wrote:Yeah, they say it's a reversal of fortune attack, it doesn't have to pierce his armor or anything, all he has to do is SAY it and then bam, it'll be in his heart. Somehow, Archer managed to do something impossible. It's not like you can BLOCK a attack that just APPEARS inside your chest. It's not super fast or anything, it will actually, all of a sudden, be in your heart.
actually the one archer blocked is throwing spear of death flight, which emphasizes power over accuracy. So, its ability is not to hit your heart, but blow your entire body away. that can be blocked by rho aias. Impaling spear cannot be blocked by rho aias on the other hand.
Hmm, didn't it say enough magical energy or luck could change the course of the spear? I think Rho Aius is packed with quite a bit of magic energy. It may be able to change the course of the spear away from the heart, but even so, it would still impale.
"Hah, I see, I see! Yeah, thats so much more important than who my master is! You're right, kid!" - Lancer
"Therefore, give me tea." - Okazaki Tomoya.

Raitei
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Unread post by Raitei » December 7th, 2008, 6:51 am

remember that it must be thrusted in order to activate its effect. that's why I said it's melee range, and with the good ol' enkidu, lancer's as good as helpless.
► Show Spoiler
edit : oh, and I forget to mention that it strikes the moment it's thrust, regardless the path it must take. meaning? you can't thrust it from afar and hope it'll struck by extending itself like dhalsim's limb.
Last edited by Raitei on December 7th, 2008, 6:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mkilbride
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Unread post by Mkilbride » December 7th, 2008, 6:52 am

That's right, he chucked it at him. What a fool, if he had been seriousness. Epic wins.

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Unread post by Inverted » December 7th, 2008, 12:06 pm

Mkilbride wrote:That's right, he chucked it at him. What a fool, if he had been seriousness. Epic wins.
Nah I think he used Death Flight because he was serious. He didn't know what Archer's Luck stat was and probably decided he didn't want another fiasco as happened with Saber.Not to mention Archer was tricky and meleing even when he knew Lancer's true name. So he went for sure shot kill method .Even Death Flight is sure hit method too ; only it doesn't aim for the heart.Whoever knew an Archer had Rho Aius let alone a shield.

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Unread post by Rikh » December 7th, 2008, 3:55 pm

Inverted wrote:
Mkilbride wrote:That's right, he chucked it at him. What a fool, if he had been seriousness. Epic wins.
Nah I think he used Death Flight because he was serious. He didn't know what Archer's Luck stat was and probably decided he didn't want another fiasco as happened with Saber.Not to mention Archer was tricky and meleing even when he knew Lancer's true name. So he went for sure shot kill method .Even Death Flight is sure hit method too ; only it doesn't aim for the heart.Whoever knew an Archer had Rho Aius let alone a shield.
since Rho aias blocked Death Flight, (when it WAS going to be a direct hit) That means its mana and ability were stronger than death flight

Since Rho Aias is a shield supposed to be the most protective fortress against spears... Wouldnt that mean Gae Bolg would not work???
After all, Rho Aias IS higher ranked than Gae Bolg, and it is supposed to protect the user from spears. So that would mean Gae Bolgs effect would be negated since it is a lower rank

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Unread post by Watashimo » December 7th, 2008, 11:38 pm

As a simple example, I think Gae Bolg's power is like a lazer when he uses the Impaling technique whereas its more of a bomb when he uses Death Flight. So if its more focused on connecting with the target rather than destroying the target, I think it will hit.

It may be that the spear goes completely around Rho Aius and hits Archer similar to the way it avoids Fragarach when it impales Bazette. I'm no expert on this, but this is my best guess.
"Hah, I see, I see! Yeah, thats so much more important than who my master is! You're right, kid!" - Lancer
"Therefore, give me tea." - Okazaki Tomoya.

Keeper of Gil's Vault
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Unread post by Keeper of Gil's Vault » December 7th, 2008, 11:45 pm

Rho Aias is a conceptual weapon, not the real deal (the real one is supposed to be made of ox hide). Its concept is along the line of "halt all projectiles", Gae Bolg probably can bypass that. As far as we know, Gae Bolg can literally turn 90 degrees and hit Archer in the back. Edit: what he said ^

I wonder, Sabre was able to dodge Gae Bolg due to her high intuition and luck, but clairvoyance is even superior than intuition/6th sense. A high enough rank clairvoyance will allow the user to gaze into the future. You can dodge Gae Bolg all day because it is not destiny interference.

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Unread post by Watashimo » December 7th, 2008, 11:50 pm

You can't dodge it just because you can see it. Saber avoided it out of pure luck alone, not intuition. Even if you were to dodge, the effect of "the spear piercing the heart" would still happen and the path of spear would change as much as needed to hit you. You can run, but you can't hide ^^;;;
"Hah, I see, I see! Yeah, thats so much more important than who my master is! You're right, kid!" - Lancer
"Therefore, give me tea." - Okazaki Tomoya.

Keeper of Gil's Vault
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Unread post by Keeper of Gil's Vault » December 8th, 2008, 12:03 am

I guess I should explain this better. There is a difference between "will hit" and "destined to hit". Gae Bolg has the power of "will hit", but Sabre was not struck (in the heart) because she was not destined to be hit. Gae Bolg does not have destiny interference, merely reverse causality. If Gae Bolg has destiny interference, it will keep rewind the event until it hits.Now that would be a totally br0ken weapon.

Raitei
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Unread post by Raitei » December 8th, 2008, 12:13 am

Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:I guess I should explain this better. There is a difference between "will hit" and "destined to hit". Gae Bolg has the power of "will hit", but Sabre was not struck (in the heart) because she was not destined to be hit. Gae Bolg does not have destiny interference, merely reverse causality. If Gae Bolg has destiny interference, it will keep rewind the event until it hits.Now that would be a totally br0ken weapon.
► Show Spoiler
► Show Spoiler
there is no mentioning about 6th sense or clairvoyance, mind you. you know it's coming but you can't dode it, no matter what. not unless you alter fate ahead of time by luck.
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
Fate/world providence

Watashimo
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Unread post by Watashimo » December 8th, 2008, 12:17 am

Even so, just because you have the ability to see it doesn't mean you can avoid it. Its stated that you must have high luck or enough divine protection to nullify the curse of the lance. Even if you can see it coming, it will still hit you. No matter where you move to or how you block, it will hit you.

Edit: Exactly as Raitei said it.
"Hah, I see, I see! Yeah, thats so much more important than who my master is! You're right, kid!" - Lancer
"Therefore, give me tea." - Okazaki Tomoya.

gexer64
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Unread post by gexer64 » December 8th, 2008, 12:18 am

LOL @ Sion.
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Unread post by Keeper of Gil's Vault » December 8th, 2008, 12:20 am

Ya, I guess it all come down to fate then. So basically if you are fated to "die from being struck by lightning", Lancer can Gae Bolg you all day and not kill you, ahahaha.

Edit: About the intuition thing. I remember reading Sabre sensed Gae Bolg through her intuition, but maybe it did just that, it did not help her dodge it.

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Unread post by spathi » December 8th, 2008, 8:04 am

Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:Ya, I guess it all come down to fate then. So basically if you are fated to "die from being struck by lightning", Lancer can Gae Bolg you all day and not kill you, ahahaha.

Edit: About the intuition thing. I remember reading Sabre sensed Gae Bolg through her intuition, but maybe it did just that, it did not help her dodge it.
Gae Bolg becomes lightning then XD

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Unread post by DarkEyes » December 26th, 2008, 7:30 pm

archers own the grail xD i voted rin archer cuz tracing is just godly =p

Raitei
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Unread post by Raitei » December 26th, 2008, 11:56 pm

tracing is Not godly. a serious gil would own archer easily.

also, I fail to see why some people still consider archer the strongest while canon sources point out that he's actually desperately average as a servant. :P
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
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