What you didn't like about the series [Spoilers!]

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What you didn't like about the series [Spoilers!]

Unread postby matthewfarenheit » November 20th, 2008, 3:50 am

First of all, I liked Fate. It's the second VN I ever played (the first being a PS game called "Double Cast") and it rocked. I liked and was moved by every one of the routes. I managed to identify myself with the main character, emphatize, understand the pain he's been and going through, and admire him for this. At different points in the game I desired for almost every Servant to survive, because they're cool and they have their own character development, so deep that makes them deserving of their own arcs, if not whole books and games. Every character on the series had their own moments, and I liked that as well.

Now... To begin with what I didn't like... I'll just make a last warning: SPOILERS!!

The arc/route system

It has it's pro's and con's. For the whole Fate route you just scroll through text and learn a lot of things, most parts of the history fit together except some that you figure out on latter arcs. But this is the problem: the latter arcs take as granted that the reader already knows what the previous arcs revealed, that certain technicals things just don't need to be spelled out, and that's cool. But when it comes to "oh, we don't need to reveal Saber's identity anymore" or "we don't need to say that Shirou has Avalon inside his body" things start to get just weird.

Obvious question that any normal person would ask at certain points are not asked, and at some point you find asking yourself "are they just idiots?". The same is with the transition from UBW to HF: Who was Archer? it seems that everyone already knows, yet they never spell it out and you can't possibly be sure of those things. Hey, Kotomine just said "my servants are out", did you notice that he said that in plural, Shirou? Yes? No? They never answer this! And we read around 24 hours worth of text, obvious things like that seem deliberately left alone as to confuse the reader, and it's not like the VN really benefits from such a thing... Why?

And then, we have the nice addition of backtracking: you didn't know why Rider's nail stopped at Shirou's shoulder? Just check HF and then revive the old emotions! Don't know why Sakura acts ankward when Rin's present? do the same! So, in order to know what is the true ending in Fate, I have to play through Fate, UBW and finally HF: do not ask for a save or something because you're gonna be confused as hell. Then you'll discover things that apply to the rpevious routes, so if you want to see how they articulate, replay the previous routes! And if all this forwarding and backtracking starts confusing you, then you may be able to grasp why they are SO CRYPTIC!

This complaint leads to the next one:

Reduced screen time for past arcs characters/battles

I really don't have any way to explain this. They may have been running out of space in the DVD. Maybe a 4 CDs game instead of 3 CDs one was too much (I don't really know how many CDs is the CD version). It still doesn't make sense, but...

Example: Soichirou. In fate, he's barely on the screen, so it's ok. In UBW, revelation! he's Caster Master! He has a lot of character development, people loves him or hates him. Then in HF, he's dead. They don't even show him. Shirou's just looks at him with... spite? HE DOESN'T EVEN MENTIONS HIS NAME, neither does he show that much surprise about his teacher being a Master. Why? You just remembered he was your enemy? Did Shirou secretly wished for his history teacher's DEATH? WHAT HAPPENED?

Example 2: Saber. Yeah, Saber, the main heroine from Fate, gets an almost indifferent treatment in UBW and by HF they KILL HER by the 9th night. I won't explain myself much because she does get some cookies, but she's basically reduced to a backstage moe eating introspective person that doesn't deserve much screen time. Things that puzzled Shirou from the start on the previous arcs aren't even an issue now, even tough it's THE READERS that know them, not Shirou... whatever...

Anyways, this reflects in some battles as well: I remember reading the first nights of HF with Saber with awe:
Go out, kill Caster, back, check.
Go out, kill Rider, back, check.

I was like "WHAT IS HAPPENING? DID BATTLES JUST BECOME OUTSTANDINGLY BORING TO SEE THAT EVERYTHING HAPPENS SO FAST?". I was starting to think that everything was just going to end in 3 night's time! OMG thanks True assassin and the creepy thing on the floor that we get to know was Sakura for stopping this massacre, as the next night Saber was gonna kill THE WHOLE GAME.

Also, the short battles applies as well to a certain great but maybe extremely condensed battle: Shirou vs Dark Berserker. I know the whole thing just happens in 3 seconds, I know it well, but I ADMIRE the persons that figured out where did he get the technique from (downloaded it from the blade). It never mentions it. There are whole 2 hours long conversations that you can easily scrap, but GOD FORGIVE YOU IF YOU MISS THESE 5 MINUTES WORTH OF TEXT BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO REGRET IT! And if you don't savor every word you're going down: the game just loves to repeat you things obvious things like "You shouldn't use the arm" or "You should go see Illya" but by no means should you EVER know that it's swords that are going to reinforce your broken parts: something that even the main character knows must be hidden from the reader...

Character differences between routes

This is less of a complaint that a statement of fact. If we are forced to play previous routes, and familiarize ourselves with the characters, why they suddenly change personalities on each of the arcs? The most notorious example is Illya on HF: WTF? I mean it: WTF??? She's the most adult-like person on the series in that arc, and in all the other routes she acted like a totally childish character (Fate) or about the same with an autistic sadomasochist touch to it (UBW). What happened? Did something HEAVY hit her head on the other routes? I know how it goes: she couldn't be developed enough on the other routes so they went all out on HF: Is that enough pretext? From a childish loli character to the most grown person in the series: character development for yah!

Sex scenes

I won't emphatize on this. I had to add it as it was the obvious inclusion, that's it. You know they're weird, I know they're weird, that's about all there's to it. 5 ml of semen (assuming Shirou is a very productive person) are worth about 2-3 blasts with the more powerful weapon created by the World: yeah, sure. I'm really starting to ask myself why don't they have guys fapping at missile silos... Grotesque meat for the masses! I just tend to ignore the ero-scenes, concluding that they weren't added by the author but by a whole team of perverts that needed Fate to be classified as an Ero-game. I know it isn't true, but whatever: it still explains the massive ankwardness they give you better than most other arguments I can think of.

Some other things

*HF true ending being the "true ending for Fate/Stay Night": IT SUCKS! The first heroine we made a bond with, Saber, is dead and still in limbo looking for the grail. The main character is on a remote-control body that doesn't fit him too well while being stored on a loli body himself (yeah, Shirou is now a loli, ha!). A lot of people died, and the person that benefited from it the most is running amok. People that deserved a chance, like Soichirou, Caster, Lancer, Assassin, died a meaningless death. Well developed, likable characters Illya and Kirei: DEAD. Am I supposed to be happy because Sakura and his puppet-boyfriend-I-cannot-recognize-as-Shirou are looking at the cherry blossoms with happy music? GO HELL.
*Shirous new ideal on HF, shirou's old ideal in the rest of the routes: it's the same! What changes: being a superhero vs being the hero of the person you love? these are all coverups! What he really wants is no one to suffer, no one to die. He never embraced the "Kill one to save a lot" ideal from Kiritsugu, not even on the other routes, neither he considered other ppl disposable in order to keep the ppl he values: he just actively seeks a solution were everyone can survive, in all the routes. It just happens that in HF people died in the meantime, people he still wanted to spare. HE-NEVER-CHANGED-HIS-IDEAL.
*I readed on some thread that Shinji was going to be a lil' bit redeemed on HF when a badder person showed up: Zoken. Guess what? He didn't. Zoken was the bad guy that got the stardom, he got a nice brief scene of redemption with Illya, and that's it: Shinji just proved himself as the bastard idiot rapist he is and DESERVED a more painful death: the one he got was too painless for my tastes.


---------------------------------

There's a lot of things to add, but then, I have been nitpicking enough. I like the series, and all the pros far outweight the cons, but I guessed I just had to say it and see if I'm the only crazy guy that noted many of those things or it's a general thing. This whole text is not mean to be deep or foolproof, just to express what I thought was negative on what I consider a masterpiece, and as a whole can be summarized as a "nitpicking rant". What do you think?
Last edited by matthewfarenheit on November 20th, 2008, 4:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby AlinSabel » November 20th, 2008, 3:57 am

Uh... you can't progress to HF without finishing UBW, which cannot be begun without finishing Fate. D:
Getting a save game is under the assumption that you've completed the previous scenes... :<
Realistically, yes... in-game, they should be asking more questions. But it's a toss-up between explaining things again, or just skimming over something.
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Re: What I didn't like about the series [Spoilers!]

Unread postby BloodRivers » November 20th, 2008, 4:04 am

matthewfarenheit wrote:Sex scenes

I won't emphatize on this. I had to add it as it was the obvious inclusion, that's it. You know they're weird, I know they're weird, that's about all there's to it. 5 ml of semen (assuming Shirou is a very productive person) are worth about 2-3 blasts with the more powerful weapon created by the World: yeah, sure. I'm really starting to ask myself why don't they have guys fapping at missile silos... Grotesque meat for the masses! I just tend to ignore the ero-scenes, concluding that they weren't added by the author but by a whole team of perverts that needed Fate to be classified as an Ero-game. I know it isn't true, but whatever: it still explains the massive ankwardness they give you better than most other arguments I can think of.


I actually found Rin's ero-scene to be rather realistic. (as well as having a point to the overall story)

matthewfarenheit wrote:
Some other things

*I readed on some thread that Shinji was going to be a lil' bit redeemed on HF when a badder person showed up: Zoken. Guess what? He didn't. Zoken was the bad guy that got the stardom, he got a nice brief scene of redemption with Illya, and that's it: Shinji just proved himself as the bastard idiot rapist he is and DESERVED a more painful death: the one he got was too painless for my tastes.


Shinji deserved FAR, FAR worse indeed. My hatred for his pathetic character dates back to the first scene he entered in during the Fate scenario and reached it's highest point during Heaven's Feel. Shinji and Zoken's combined actions taken against Sakura disgusted me - AND THAT'S NOT EASY TO DO MIND YOU.

Else, as a whole I loved the hell out of Fate Stay Night. It's a shame the PC game only had 3 Routes :lol:
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Unread postby AlinSabel » November 20th, 2008, 4:24 am

Well... Shirou sort of says it when he's ranting in the playground while Kotomine's doing the surgery on Sakura.

If Zoken hadn't been doing what he was doing, the Matou line might have been able to just fade out of being mages. Shinji the shithead was created because of Zoken's doings, and he wouldn't have been all 'I'm the child of a special family, I have an inferiority complex'. At least, he'd have one less reason. Sakura wouldn't have been adopted either, and he wouldn't have felt like he had to make everyone inferior to him when they're superior (something mentioned by Rin).

It's unacceptable how he turned out, but it's not like it's all his fault. :roll:

The way he is in F/SN - that is, Zoken exists with his long-twisted wish, Sakura "usurped" his place, and his only friend is a dude who's just a bit thick in the head... yeah, what he does is unforgivable.
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Unread postby Mkilbride » November 20th, 2008, 4:46 am

Actually, it is all Shinji's fault.

It's part of his personality, and therefore, his fault.

Shinji in all routes, deserved to die.(Him acting nicer to her in the end of UBW is just LOL YEAH RIGHT, he's raped her, beat her, ect)



I agree with the others. HF is under the assumption you've played the previous routes, the only way you can bypass this is to play someone elses save or so.(Or play on someones computer who has beat it)


Was it annoying some characters seemed "Meh?" Yes.


UBW is still the best.
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Unread postby nanaya_shinya » November 20th, 2008, 6:36 am

What I didn't like about the series?


Simple... the mere existence of Matou Shinji.
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Re: What you didn't like about the series [Spoilers!]

Unread postby NonExistence » November 20th, 2008, 6:41 am

matthewfarenheit wrote:It has it's pro's and con's. For the whole Fate route you just scroll through text and learn a lot of things, most parts of the history fit together except some that you figure out on latter arcs. But this is the problem: the latter arcs take as granted that the reader already knows what the previous arcs revealed, that certain technicals things just don't need to be spelled out, and that's cool. But when it comes to "oh, we don't need to reveal Saber's identity anymore" or "we don't need to say that Shirou has Avalon inside his body" things start to get just weird.

Obvious question that any normal person would ask at certain points are not asked, and at some point you find asking yourself "are they just idiots?". The same is with the transition from UBW to HF: Who was Archer? it seems that everyone already knows, yet they never spell it out and you can't possibly be sure of those things. Hey, Kotomine just said "my servants are out", did you notice that he said that in plural, Shirou? Yes? No? They never answer this! And we read around 24 hours worth of text, obvious things like that seem deliberately left alone as to confuse the reader, and it's not like the VN really benefits from such a thing... Why?

And then, we have the nice addition of backtracking: you didn't know why Rider's nail stopped at Shirou's shoulder? Just check HF and then revive the old emotions! Don't know why Sakura acts ankward when Rin's present? do the same! So, in order to know what is the true ending in Fate, I have to play through Fate, UBW and finally HF: do not ask for a save or something because you're gonna be confused as hell. Then you'll discover things that apply to the rpevious routes, so if you want to see how they articulate, replay the previous routes! And if all this forwarding and backtracking starts confusing you, then you may be able to grasp why they are SO CRYPTIC!


... would you rather have them retell you everything... three times? i think having the status and weapon screens was enough. also, the backtracking thing wasn't intended to be annoying: the author assumes that you have a brain capable of making connections between what you're reading and what you've read! (i know, it's shocking, isn't it?) it's called evaluation, and it's a part of higher-level thinking.

I really don't have any way to explain this. They may have been running out of space in the DVD. Maybe a 4 CDs game instead of 3 CDs one was too much (I don't really know how many CDs is the CD version). It still doesn't make sense, but...

Example: Soichirou. In fate, he's barely on the screen, so it's ok. In UBW, revelation! he's Caster Master! He has a lot of character development, people loves him or hates him. Then in HF, he's dead. They don't even show him. Shirou's just looks at him with... spite? HE DOESN'T EVEN MENTIONS HIS NAME, neither does he show that much surprise about his teacher being a Master. Why? You just remembered he was your enemy? Did Shirou secretly wished for his history teacher's DEATH? WHAT HAPPENED?

Example 2: Saber. Yeah, Saber, the main heroine from Fate, gets an almost indifferent treatment in UBW and by HF they KILL HER by the 9th night. I won't explain myself much because she does get some cookies, but she's basically reduced to a backstage moe eating introspective person that doesn't deserve much screen time. Things that puzzled Shirou from the start on the previous arcs aren't even an issue now, even tough it's THE READERS that know them, not Shirou... whatever...


that's because they're on different routes. they are only useful as the plot devices that they are, even if they are main characters. therefore, if the plotline changes (which is what a route is), the importance of that person also changes. it's natural for that to happen in branching vn's. if all the routes had saber being the main focus, well... where's the fun in that?

This whole text is not mean to be deep or foolproof, just to express what I thought was negative on what I consider a masterpiece, and as a whole can be summarized as a "nitpicking rant". What do you think?

you got that right. i personally think that a lot of the things you mentioned were justified and not negatives at all.
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Unread postby rastilin » November 20th, 2008, 7:36 am

I had pretty much the same irritations as the parent poster but mostly it was two things...

Character differences between routes

This is less of a complaint that a statement of fact. If we are forced to play previous routes, and familiarize ourselves with the characters, why they suddenly change personalities on each of the arcs? The most notorious example is Illya on HF: WTF? I mean it: WTF??? She's the most adult-like person on the series in that arc, and in all the other routes she acted like a totally childish character (Fate) or about the same with an autistic sadomasochist touch to it (UBW). What happened? Did something HEAVY hit her head on the other routes? I know how it goes: she couldn't be developed enough on the other routes so they went all out on HF: Is that enough pretext? From a childish loli character to the most grown person in the series: character development for yah!


QFT. There's no reason for a massive personality change during the middle of the story. Mostly what gets me is Shirou in the beginning of Heaven's Feel. He doesn't want to fight Illya, so instead of getting an alliance together and trying to take down Berzerker without collateral damage, he tries to half-ass it alone and do... what? When the crazy priest starts bad-mouthing his father, he completely believes him, what's wrong with this guy. Doesn't it occur to him even once that the untrustworthy looking one might just possibly have alternate motivations or be biased.... like say because Kitsurgutu shot him in the head?

I accept that he might be off balance by the speed of this and I suppose this can excuse a lot. Still, this feeds into the next point.

*Shirous new ideal on HF, shirou's old ideal in the rest of the routes: it's the same! What changes: being a superhero vs being the hero of the person you love? these are all coverups! What he really wants is no one to suffer, no one to die. He never embraced the "Kill one to save a lot" ideal from Kiritsugu, not even on the other routes, neither he considered other ppl disposable in order to keep the ppl he values: he just actively seeks a solution were everyone can survive, in all the routes. It just happens that in HF people died in the meantime, people he still wanted to spare. HE-NEVER-CHANGED-HIS-IDEAL.


But he DID change is actions. In Fate or UBW he would have taken steps to restrain Sakura the moment he found out that she was randomly killing people, the same for Shinji. Once he had proof that either of them were a legitimate threat to others, he'd take them down. But now he offers Shinji and Sakura a way out. Now the lives of random people on the street, any one of which could have been him are totally meaningless to him. That's not being a hero of justice, anyone can fight for his personal happiness and the people he loves by sacrificing bystanders. That's not worthy of respect at all, the halls of palaces are filled with people doing this right now in the real world and no-one thinks it's heroic. Having power, and using it to make yourself happy at the expense of the lives of others isn't heroism as we would grasp it.

*HF true ending being the "true ending for Fate/Stay Night": IT SUCKS! The first heroine we made a bond with, Saber, is dead and still in limbo looking for the grail. The main character is on a remote-control body that doesn't fit him too well while being stored on a loli body himself (yeah, Shirou is now a loli, ha!). A lot of people died, and the person that benefited from it the most is running amok. People that deserved a chance, like Soichirou, Caster, Lancer, Assassin, died a meaningless death. Well developed, likable characters Illya and Kirei: DEAD. Am I supposed to be happy because Sakura and his puppet-boyfriend-I-cannot-recognize-as-Shirou are looking at the cherry blossoms with happy music? GO HELL.


Well said.
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Unread postby nanaya_shinya » November 20th, 2008, 7:49 am

It's not that bad if you see the characters as Actors in a Play that Kinoko Nasu made.

lol

I'm like Warakia TATARI (Zepia Eltnam Oberon) that way.
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Unread postby holydiver » November 20th, 2008, 9:36 am

HF's ending doesn't suck:

Fate ending sucks, really.

Shirou loves Saber.

Saber loves Shirou.

Saber DIES.

I was REALLY pissed off.
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Re: What you didn't like about the series [Spoilers!]

Unread postby matthewfarenheit » November 20th, 2008, 10:12 am

holydiver wrote:HF's ending doesn't suck:

Fate ending sucks, really.


Well, the Fate ending has it's suckiness as well, but I kinda liked it anyways. It may not have been so fulfilling, with Saber and Shirou appart, but it was extremely emotive and I liked it. I like things that move me, so Fate and UBW endings, plus the "Cherry Blossom's Dream" to a minor extent, are good for me. This is just my subjective oppinion though, so feel free to rant on the suckiness as I had :p

NonExistence wrote:
matthewfarenheit wrote:...
... would you rather have them retell you everything... three times? i think having the status and weapon screens was enough. also, the backtracking thing wasn't intended to be annoying: the author assumes that you have a brain capable of making connections between what you're reading and what you've read! (i know, it's shocking, isn't it?) it's called evaluation, and it's a part of higher-level thinking.
...
that's because they're on different routes. they are only useful as the plot devices that they are, even if they are main characters. therefore, if the plotline changes (which is what a route is), the importance of that person also changes. it's natural for that to happen in branching vn's. if all the routes had saber being the main focus, well... where's the fun in that?
...
you got that right. i personally think that a lot of the things you mentioned were justified and not negatives at all.

Now here's a guy that got me all wrong. I like and hate the route system, and this doesn't mean I would like to have them retell me everything on the three routes, but more that it'd be nice to have a single, recapitulative route that encompasses all important events on all the routes. Having routes, as I said, has its pros and cons: the "you already know so we are not telling you" BS is one of the biggest cons, but it's a price to pay to have three alternative stories to enjoy. If you mean that, I always meant the same, so I really don't know why your position is "you don't have a brain cappable of xxx". Flamebaiting? Trolling? You tell me...
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Unread postby Kansho » November 20th, 2008, 11:46 am

matthewfarenheit wrote:The arc/route system
That's how 90% of visual novels works... And in this one is even more excusable because you are pretty much forced to follow a read order. And many people thinks that Nasu is one of those who must think that we are idiots, because he explain the same things one time, and another time, and another time...

matthewfarenheit wrote:Reduced screen time for past arcs characters/battles
That's typical in visual novels too. And Saber character-wise is pretty much covered in Fate route alone, so there isn't really nothing more to talk about her... You will hate Tsukihime then, with Arcueid not appearing AT ALL during almost 70% of the game...

And about Nine Lives. Materials cover it.

matthewfarenheit wrote:Character differences between routes
I think that we got glimpses of this in Fate too, but Shirou never managed to get a real brotherly relationship with Ilya in time. Then, she tasted blood killing Shinji and...

matthewfarenheit wrote:Some other things
*I don't understand what's your point with Shirou's new body. It's exactly the same as a normal human body you know? Only that without that additional Nerves-Magic Circuits that he trained along the years. Is exactly as they say, "it's the same old Emiya Shirou as always".

Ilya and Kirei are fated to die. And all the people you mention were already developed to extent in their own route. (Well, I feel pity for Lancer tough, but he get some stuff in ataraxia)

And the thing is that in this ending, quoting the Tiger Dojo Finale "The Great Grail is destroyed, and everyone is alive except Saber and Ilya. You can't ask from more. Life is fun because you can't have it your way. It's just right when some people are missing. Shirou lost many things, but he will be accumulating more things from now on. That's why is a grand finale, everyone's going to be happy as they can get". Thinking of it, it's true, as you have 3 main characters, Shirou, Sakura and Rin with a final answer and a new life. In some way, they pulled out their masks.

*Shirou's ideal is borrowed, what he wants is to become a "Hero of Justice" like Kiritsugu, but around the game, you get to see that this goal is cursed and isn't that good as seemed at first, showing what really "means" to be a Seigi no Mikata. Even Archer ended that way, so it's not really nothing new. The thing is that Shirou wants to conveniently ignore it... but then reality slaps him in the face.
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Unread postby radical_number6 » November 20th, 2008, 5:54 pm

didnt the author say there's no canon endind to fsn, but our own interpetation? plus the tiger dojo that taiga mentioned a true ending to fsn, i thought was a joke, coz afterwards, its like illy deadpanned it its: 'true ending and good ending', so that leads me to believe that.
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Unread postby Kansho » November 20th, 2008, 6:03 pm

Ilya said True ending and Normal ending, and that's what HF have, so no, it's not supposed at all to be a joke. What they are refering is that HF True is the grand finale of the game. That didn't means that the other endings aren't canon or valid, of course they are as well.

And no, the author didn't really said nothing more than that, but we got the all the Zel stuff of the parallel worlds, so you can always said that the routes are parallel worlds and all of that.
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Unread postby matthewfarenheit » November 20th, 2008, 6:36 pm

Ok guys, enough of analizing my own words: the thread was meant for you to say what YOU didn't like about the series, not troll myself out of it because I don't have enough of the fanboyish attitude you hold as necessary for a F/SN forum :p

What didn't you like about the series? It's on the TITLE!
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Unread postby radical_number6 » November 20th, 2008, 6:42 pm

there's nothing to not like. u should make a thread on why i like fsn. this thread sucks. :evil:

lol, jk :wink:
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Unread postby abscess » November 20th, 2008, 6:50 pm

matthewfarenheit wrote:Ok guys, enough of analizing my own words: the thread was meant for you to say what YOU didn't like about the series, not troll myself out of it because I don't have enough of the fanboyish attitude you hold as necessary for a F/SN forum :p

What didn't you like about the series? It's on the TITLE!

Well... it's just that you already pointed most, if not all, of the main things I didn't like....
The rest are just details.... Like I didn't really like HF last CG with everyone standing there looking at the Sakura (the trees) or... something...
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.
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Unread postby matthewfarenheit » November 20th, 2008, 6:56 pm

abscess wrote:
matthewfarenheit wrote:Ok guys, enough of analizing my own words: the thread was meant for you to say what YOU didn't like about the series, not troll myself out of it because I don't have enough of the fanboyish attitude you hold as necessary for a F/SN forum :p

What didn't you like about the series? It's on the TITLE!

Well... it's just that you already pointed most, if not all, of the main things I didn't like....
The rest are just details.... Like I didn't really like HF last CG with everyone standing there looking at the Sakura (the trees) or... something...

Yeah... don't everyone's asses look square-shaped on that pic? LOL
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Unread postby Kansho » November 20th, 2008, 8:58 pm

matthewfarenheit wrote:Yeah... don't everyone's asses look square-shaped on that pic? LOL
Welcome to Takeuchi's style.
見せかけの自分はそっと捨ててただありのままで
misekake no jibun ha sotto sutete tada ari no mama de -
Throw away the "fake me" quietly and just be myself.
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Unread postby stryk3r » November 22nd, 2008, 10:26 pm

Shirou. To be honest I hated my own avatar in two of the three routes. His arguments with Saber, where both would correctly criticize the other for never thinking of their own interests, the way he continues ignoring the fallacy of his ideals in UBW rather than revise them, even though the ultimate incarnation of them is bitter and self loathing, the Tohsaka H scene, he just kept on getting under my skin at every turn. He did redeem himself in HF though, so maybe I'm being a bit harsh.
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