True power of Archer (spoilers)

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Shiirn
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Unread post by Shiirn » November 21st, 2008, 2:00 am

Shikiller wrote:In a straight-out melee fight (With kansho/bakuya only), Archer will lose to every. single. servant.

Archer's arm shirou says hi.
Tsubame Gaeshi / superior melee skill says hi. Apparently you ignored the "With kansho/bakuya only", or took it to mean "Nine Lives Blade Works included", or thought that every servant would fall for the move Dark Saber did.
(She's the slowest servant in the game, ffs. D rank agility? Rider should have been able to take her out easily)

Archer doesn't know NLBW. He wouldn't know until after he fought BerserGAR. If he survives said fight. For all we know, in the fate route, he did the exact same thing GARm Shirou did; NLBW. Certainly a possibility.

The only way Archer would know NLBW is if he came from the HF route, and apparently he didn't. (Shirou would be unable to reproduce NLBW without the GARm, because it's a technique, not a weapon.)

Shirou shouldn't have been able to download Nine Lives from Berserker's weapon: Berserker never used NL with it! And also never used said slab of rock in his regular life.

It's just a scene that shows Shirou's determination; plot holes abound in those 10 minutes.

Raitei
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Unread post by Raitei » November 21st, 2008, 2:02 am

Shikiller wrote:In a straight-out melee fight (With kansho/bakuya only), Archer will lose to every. single. servant.

Archer's arm shirou says hi to saber
and thus this is called "hasty generalization". "because archer arm shirou can own (black) saber in a melee combat, archer should be able to kick every single servant ass in a melee combat". lol. just lol.
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I'm an agent of chaos."
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Shikiller
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Unread post by Shikiller » November 21st, 2008, 2:03 am

Raitei wrote:
Shikiller wrote:In a straight-out melee fight (With kansho/bakuya only), Archer will lose to every. single. servant.

Archer's arm shirou says hi to saber
and thus this is called "hasty generalization". "because archer arm shirou can own (black) saber in a melee combat, archer should be able to kick every single servant ass in a melee combat". lol. just lol.
no, just to Saber.
Last edited by Shikiller on November 21st, 2008, 2:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

Shikiller
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Unread post by Shikiller » November 21st, 2008, 2:04 am

Raitei wrote:
Shikiller wrote:In a straight-out melee fight (With kansho/bakuya only), Archer will lose to every. single. servant.

Archer's arm shirou says hi to saber
and thus this is called "hasty generalization". "because archer arm shirou can own (black) saber in a melee combat, archer should be able to kick every single servant ass in a melee combat". lol. just lol.
no, just to Saber.

Shiirn
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Unread post by Shiirn » November 21st, 2008, 2:04 am

Dark Saber is actually one of the weaker melee servants.

She has D rank agility, making her the slowest servant in the game.

The only thing she has running for her is Darkcalibur spam, and she didn't use that vs GARm Shirou. Saying it's the cave is stupid; She Darkcaliblasts Rider with no hesitation at the exact same spot.

EDIT: Let me go back and change my sentence to "Every servant EXCEPT a Saber that only appears in a route where GARcher never gets the chance to fight her alone" the Shadow and Hassan are always there; to fight DS is to fight them all.
Last edited by Shiirn on November 21st, 2008, 2:24 am, edited 3 times in total.

Shikiller
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Unread post by Shikiller » November 21st, 2008, 2:05 am

Yes, but it proves that " would lose to every servant in meele" is wrong. And Archer actually beats Caster.
Tell Berserker that "dark saber is one of the weakest servants" lol

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Unread post by Raitei » November 21st, 2008, 2:12 am

Shikiller wrote:Yes, but it proves that " would lose to every servant in meele" is wrong.
so you point out an exception, then. but this exception is also exception. why? because melee servants who are ripped off of their agility are pretty much good-for-nothing.
And Archer actually beats Caster.
who said he didn't?
Tell Berserker that "dark saber has become one of the weakest servants in melee" lol
fixed. that's just about right.
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
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Unread post by Kansho » November 21st, 2008, 2:20 am

Shiirn wrote:Dark Saber is actually one of the weaker servants.
It's said in the game that Saber Alter is the STRONGEST encarnation of Saber, as she is even strongest that at her peak. So no, that's totally false, Saber Alter is one of the strongest Servants.
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Unread post by Shiirn » November 21st, 2008, 2:23 am

"Strongest" literally means "Strongest".

It's said more then once that her attack power is the highest of any servant, indeed, even a serious Gilgamesh may have a hard time defending against an all-out Dark Saber. Why?

Darkcallispam!
^--awesome new word.


I'll go edit my post to say "Melee Servant".

EDIT: I wonder if Dark Sakura's influence would empower Excalibur? Having more mana would let her draw more mana, but the game still leaves the attack strength at A++. Go figure.

Shikiller
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Unread post by Shikiller » November 21st, 2008, 2:36 am

Shiirn wrote:"Strongest" literally means "Strongest".

It's said more then once that her attack power is the highest of any servant, indeed, even a serious Gilgamesh may have a hard time defending against an all-out Dark Saber. Why?

Darkcallispam!
^--awesome new word.


I'll go edit my post to say "Melee Servant".

EDIT: I wonder if Dark Sakura's influence would empower Excalibur? Having more mana would let her draw more mana, but the game still leaves the attack strength at A++. Go figure.

Eh? Ea >>> Darkcaliblast.

Raitei wrote:
Shikiller wrote:Yes, but it proves that " would lose to every servant in meele" is wrong.
so you point out an exception, then. but this exception is also exception. why? because melee servants who are ripped off of their agility are pretty much good-for-nothing.
And Archer actually beats Caster.
who said he didn't?
Tell Berserker that "dark saber has become one of the weakest servants in melee" lol
fixed. that's just about right.
Dark Saber = Strongest Saber ever. Not an exception blah blah, and she is still a servant. She got beaten at meele by a zombie-like Shirou. By logic Archer has a very good chance to beat Saber or Dark Saber at meele.
Last edited by Shikiller on November 21st, 2008, 2:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

Shiirn
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Unread post by Shiirn » November 21st, 2008, 2:40 am

► Show Spoiler
I didn't say it, the game did. That'd include Ea too, if 'strongest' means 'stronger then everything'.

Shikiller
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Unread post by Shikiller » November 21st, 2008, 2:45 am

mmmm, it must mean STR, as her NP is not as strong as EA, which is EX. her NP is A++ right? or maybe it's talking about the Servants alive at that point in the story.

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Unread post by Raitei » November 21st, 2008, 3:09 am

Shiirn wrote:
► Show Spoiler
I didn't say it, the game did. That'd include Ea too, if 'strongest' means 'stronger then everything'.
that pretty much says everything. "stronger not at swordmanship, but raw attack power".

oh, and also, one point to ridicule everything about shirou beating black saber : plot hole. nuff said. just like how shirou beat archer and gil.
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
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Shiirn
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Unread post by Shiirn » November 21st, 2008, 3:13 am

Raitei wrote:
Shiirn wrote:
► Show Spoiler
I didn't say it, the game did. That'd include Ea too, if 'strongest' means 'stronger then everything'.
that pretty much says everything. "stronger not at swordmanship, but raw attack power".

oh, and also, one point to ridicule everything about shirou beating black saber : plot hole. nuff said. just like how shirou beat archer and gil.
Don't forget NLBW. That wasn't just one plot hole, it was nine consecutive plot holes at once.

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Unread post by Shikiller » November 21st, 2008, 3:24 am

eight at once, actually. the last one came later.

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Unread post by matthewfarenheit » November 21st, 2008, 4:01 am

Shikiller wrote:eight at once, actually. the last one came later.
But it had twice the power as a plothole, because a blind Berserker saw Illya.

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Unread post by NonExistence » November 21st, 2008, 5:38 am

not to be a total analytical ass, but did he actually see or "see" Ilya? hoho

but purely because of that, it only has 1.5 times the power of a normal plothole instead of twice, because Berserker most likely only "saw" Ilya instead of actually seeing Ilya.
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Unread post by gexer64 » November 21st, 2008, 5:41 am

Why is UBW able to be A++ if weapons are degraded a rank?
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Unread post by NonExistence » November 21st, 2008, 5:51 am

isn't it because those were originally EX level weapons?
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Unread post by Raitei » November 21st, 2008, 6:08 am

oh yeah? then why is gob also ranked e-a++ even though there's (at least) 1 ex in it?
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
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