True power of Archer (spoilers)

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Wiiown
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Unread post by Wiiown » November 26th, 2008, 8:40 am

I won't get into all this technical arguments because I don't have enough knowledge of it. However I believe when (did archer say it himself?) it said Archer was the most powerful or whatever it was talking about the concept of his ability. Even Rin mentions that Archer's special faker ability was almost a sorcery didn't she? Technically that means that he had an infinite potential (although not really used because of plot in the routes) for power. I don't think it has anything to do with any specific NP or stats Archer had in the routes. I could be wrong though.

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Unread post by BlackTornado » November 26th, 2008, 9:33 am

Yeah, archer did say it.

While being extremely versatile does allow archer to exploit the weaknesses of his opponents, the potential alone is does not justify his claim. It can just increase his chances of winning, but he still can't do no shit against excaliblast, gae bolg impaling barbed death, or ea, or bellorophon, etc

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Unread post by Geburah san » November 27th, 2008, 5:16 pm

AlinSabel wrote: Ah, I see what you mean now. And BP are used as offensive things... it's not a "power boost", it's "an offensive power boost". <_<
If remember well making a broken phantasm, means overloading it with prana beyond its natural output thus making it stronger but in exchange it limites its uses to 1 before it breaks due to energy overload. Nothing is stated about not being able to use defensive items as broken phantasm

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Unread post by Rikh » November 27th, 2008, 5:52 pm

Geburah san wrote:
AlinSabel wrote: Ah, I see what you mean now. And BP are used as offensive things... it's not a "power boost", it's "an offensive power boost". <_<
If remember well making a broken phantasm, means overloading it with prana beyond its natural output thus making it stronger but in exchange it limites its uses to 1 before it breaks due to energy overload. Nothing is stated about not being able to use defensive items as broken phantasm
I am sure his Rho Aias is a form of his BP...
if you could call it an object??

Where did archer gain all these swords/special items...
Who on earth was he fighting his whole life...


EDIT
I wanna see a new game starring ARCHER!!!!!!!!!!
Have a game based off Archer growing up, or one of his epic adventures!

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Unread post by Keeper of Gil's Vault » November 27th, 2008, 6:52 pm

Geburah san wrote:
AlinSabel wrote: Ah, I see what you mean now. And BP are used as offensive things... it's not a "power boost", it's "an offensive power boost". <_<
If remember well making a broken phantasm, means overloading it with prana beyond its natural output thus making it stronger but in exchange it limites its uses to 1 before it breaks due to energy overload. Nothing is stated about not being able to use defensive items as broken phantasm
Hahahaha, come on, hypothesize with caution. Tell me, how do you Broken Phantasm Berserker's God Hand? The sources I've read defines Broken Phantasm as an overloaded Noble Phantasm. With Archer's ability, he might try reinforce Rho Aias.

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Unread post by BlackTornado » November 28th, 2008, 12:35 am

Rikh wrote:
Where did archer gain all these swords/special items...
Who on earth was he fighting his whole life...
He was a counter (?) guardian. Means that he was summoned by the world in different eras to protect humanity. Could have seen them then...
Rikh wrote: EDIT
I wanna see a new game starring ARCHER!!!!!!!!!!
Have a game based off Archer growing up, or one of his epic adventures!
That would be very nice :D

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Unread post by Rikh » November 28th, 2008, 12:46 am

Well since....ugh... i dont even know if this even needs a spoiler on this forum.... well ill do it anyways


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Unread post by Kcuf » November 28th, 2008, 6:35 am

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Unread post by BlackTornado » November 28th, 2008, 8:38 am

Rikh wrote:

Rider will have enough prana to kill a small planet...
huh... why? I thought that though Sakura has a lot of mana, only a limited amount could flow out at one time. Its like she has an ocean of prana, but only a small tap to draw on it...

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Unread post by Rikh » November 28th, 2008, 5:36 pm

BlackTornado wrote:
Rikh wrote:

Rider will have enough prana to kill a small planet...
huh... why? I thought that though Sakura has a lot of mana, only a limited amount could flow out at one time. Its like she has an ocean of prana, but only a small tap to draw on it...
I was referring to what if Sakura learned to use Zelretch
She could draw monstrous amounts from that alone

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Unread post by Wiiown » November 28th, 2008, 8:12 pm

BlackTornado wrote:Yeah, archer did say it.

While being extremely versatile does allow archer to exploit the weaknesses of his opponents, the potential alone is does not justify his claim. It can just increase his chances of winning, but he still can't do no shit against excaliblast, gae bolg impaling barbed death, or ea, or bellorophon, etc
I am of a different opinion myself. I believe he was talking about his potential and not actual strength. His potential is the greatest of all the servants that were summoned. They had a set ceiling of power (not taking masters into account right now) while Archer really didn't.

I still believe his claim was correct, just not in the way you might think. A servant who has access to all of the tools he can re-create (which is every weapon he has seen) has the ability to find and exploit weaknesses of any servant he meets, and he isn't exactly a slouch with melee or archery for using those weapons. Archer is like the batman of the nasuverse.

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Unread post by Rikh » November 28th, 2008, 11:01 pm

Wiiown wrote:
BlackTornado wrote:Yeah, archer did say it.

While being extremely versatile does allow archer to exploit the weaknesses of his opponents, the potential alone is does not justify his claim. It can just increase his chances of winning, but he still can't do no shit against excaliblast, gae bolg impaling barbed death, or ea, or bellorophon, etc
I am of a different opinion myself. I believe he was talking about his potential and not actual strength. His potential is the greatest of all the servants that were summoned. They had a set ceiling of power (not taking masters into account right now) while Archer really didn't.

I still believe his claim was correct, just not in the way you might think. A servant who has access to all of the tools he can re-create (which is every weapon he has seen) has the ability to find and exploit weaknesses of any servant he meets, and he isn't exactly a slouch with melee or archery for using those weapons. Archer is like the batman of the nasuverse.
well anyways, Archer has definitely got a huge upper hand on the war...

After all, he took part in it. So he should have a home playing field advantage on the other servants with weaknesses
(still he should have just struck all their weaknesses.... i am sure he could have found out with a little history study...)

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Unread post by BlackTornado » November 30th, 2008, 11:23 am

wait... so he knew that gil was in this war as well?
fourFyFSIX

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Unread post by rastilin » November 30th, 2008, 12:23 pm

He would, if he's from something resembling Fate or UBW, he'd have seen gil before. Since he and Tohsaka saw Gil talking to Sakura during the prologue, he'd definitely recognize him.

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Unread post by Rikh » November 30th, 2008, 4:18 pm

I'm pretty sure that's why he knew of Gil in UBW when he called him out inside the castle attic
in Fate and HF he pretty much died before the timing that he knew Gil would come in

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Unread post by Keeper of Gil's Vault » November 30th, 2008, 4:46 pm

The swords in UBW are copies of those in the GoB. If Archer has never seen Gil, then UBW would be empty when he was summoned. He for sure would know who Gil is and have seen Gil fight.

It is sad that Archer's goal is not to win the grail, otherwise he would have taken advantage of his knowledge and eliminate some servants.

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Unread post by Rikh » November 30th, 2008, 4:52 pm

Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:The swords in UBW are copies of those in the GoB. If Archer has never seen Gil, then UBW would be empty when he was summoned. He for sure would know who Gil is and have seen Gil fight.

It is sad that Archer's goal is not to win the grail, otherwise he would have taken advantage of his knowledge and eliminate some servants.
like going up to saiba on day one to tell her to excaliblast the church?

or saying he will take care of caster, while tohsaka and shiro take care of kuzuki
then returning to battle two, where...

They will wait to gank rider on the day she pwns the school

have archer trace a caliburn and let staber stab GARzerker... if that doesnt work, have shiro or archer do it again


Feed lancer some dog meat from Tohsakas hands...

and allow shiro and archer to have a battle over GARness... the winner can take thy grail.
or they can share it... since gil alone would make the servant requirement less...

SO saiba and archerz can haz its

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Unread post by BlackTornado » December 1st, 2008, 2:22 pm

Rikh wrote:
Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:The swords in UBW are copies of those in the GoB. If Archer has never seen Gil, then UBW would be empty when he was summoned. He for sure would know who Gil is and have seen Gil fight.

It is sad that Archer's goal is not to win the grail, otherwise he would have taken advantage of his knowledge and eliminate some servants.
like going up to saiba on day one to tell her to excaliblast the church?

or saying he will take care of caster, while tohsaka and shiro take care of kuzuki
then returning to battle two, where...

They will wait to gank rider on the day she pwns the school

have archer trace a caliburn and let staber stab GARzerker... if that doesnt work, have shiro or archer do it again


Feed lancer some dog meat from Tohsakas hands...

and allow shiro and archer to have a battle over GARness... the winner can take thy grail.
or they can share it... since gil alone would make the servant requirement less...

SO saiba and archerz can haz its
SLAP... sounds like a plan...
fourFyFSIX

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Unread post by Keeper of Gil's Vault » December 2nd, 2008, 1:24 am

Rikh wrote:
Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:The swords in UBW are copies of those in the GoB. If Archer has never seen Gil, then UBW would be empty when he was summoned. He for sure would know who Gil is and have seen Gil fight.

It is sad that Archer's goal is not to win the grail, otherwise he would have taken advantage of his knowledge and eliminate some servants.
like going up to saiba on day one to tell her to excaliblast the church?

or saying he will take care of caster, while tohsaka and shiro take care of kuzuki
then returning to battle two, where...

They will wait to gank rider on the day she pwns the school

have archer trace a caliburn and let staber stab GARzerker... if that doesnt work, have shiro or archer do it again


Feed lancer some dog meat from Tohsakas hands...

and allow shiro and archer to have a battle over GARness... the winner can take thy grail.
or they can share it... since gil alone would make the servant requirement less...

SO saiba and archerz can haz its
d00d you got it all figured out, now make a wish.

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Unread post by Benawi » December 2nd, 2008, 3:27 pm

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