Shirou's body in Heaven's Feel [Spoilers]

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Shirou's body in Heaven's Feel [Spoilers]

Unread postby Kenzu » November 18th, 2008, 2:08 pm

It's especially visible in Realta Nua screens but near the end of the scenario Shirou's body is being torn from inside out.

Question what is this? I know it is the influence of Archer's arm, but how does it work?

Is it Reality Marble that tries to take over Shirou's body?
Or is it Avalon taking the opposite effect because of incompatibility of magic circuits?
The blades did appear only on the wounded places.
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Unread postby eharper256 » November 18th, 2008, 2:49 pm

I just figured it the projection magic gone hideously wrong. Shirou has such an affinity for swords because he literally sees himself as a sword, fighting for justice. The reality marble realises the state of the casters mind, hence, Shirou literally becomes of swords. There's also the incompatability between him and Archers arm. Normally they would be compatable, but Shirou's goals and heart in this route differ quite absurdly; due to Sakura.

Of course, thats just my view. Some Nasu expert can probably quash my theories as well.
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Unread postby Raitei » November 18th, 2008, 2:54 pm

this should explain it pretty well.
fuyuki wiki wrote:Artificial Phantasm

The practice of attaching two separate spiritual bodies is a forbidden art, not because of heresy, but because the patient always dies from shock after the surgery is completed. Resurrection/restoration of a spirit body/soul is not possible with thaumaturgy. Once the circuits in Archer's arm are activated, Shirou's body will be invaded (to be more accurate, blown apart) by it. His body will be unable to withstand the pressure of its power and will internally collapse. Using it just once is the equivalent of setting off a time bomb. Of course, even if he didn't use it, it would still eventually eat away at his body (ten years), even with Martin's burial cloth. As long as Shirou becomes a skilled enough magus though before then, he ought to be able to control it.

The actual form of this "invasion" is through swords (Archer's UBW invading Shirou's body is one way of thinking about it). Projection limit using Archer's arm is a max of 5-6 times before his body/soul will completely break down. Of course, he'll go "boom" anyway even if he doesn't use them all up. "Artificial Phantasm" could either refer to Archer's arm itself or traced Noble Phantasms.
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Unread postby Henduluin » November 18th, 2008, 3:18 pm

Can't be Archer's arm, as I definitely remember Shirou's body splatting open and revealing swords when he dies in one of the early Fate dead ends. (I believe the one where he jumps out of the window from the school when Lancer's trying to kill him.) I think it's therefor more likely to assume it's UBW that's causing this.

I just think that the strain from Archer's arm made it worse / speed up the process, but it's not the cause. IMO.
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Unread postby Raitei » November 18th, 2008, 3:43 pm

Henduluin wrote:Can't be Archer's arm, as I definitely remember Shirou's body splatting open and revealing swords when he dies in one of the early Fate dead ends. (I believe the one where he jumps out of the window from the school when Lancer's trying to kill him.) I think it's therefor more likely to assume it's UBW that's causing this.
what happened in fate is a completely different case. shirou's body, wounded and cracked, sprouted sword in desperation because he WAS A TOTAL N00B back then. and it wasn't lancer; it was rider.

in hf, he was aware of the existence of the swords and was able to control it. but archer's arm set him the bomb, as the wiki said.
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
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Unread postby Kenzu » November 18th, 2008, 4:37 pm

If I remember correctly, in that dead end Shirou's body broke open and Avalon screwed him up from the inside in the form of swords. The sword form of Shirou's regenerative abilities is due to his "Sword" element.
When Shirou was cut by Gilgamesh from shoulder down to the waist in Fate scenario he saw something like swords joining his body together.
Also during the final fight against Kotomine in Heaven's Feel, swords appeared only from the wounded parts.

So perhaps Shirou's body was being invaded by Archer's arm and Avalon fought against it? Unable to heal, it started to have the opposite effect. It could be just that, because Archer's arm almost completely consumed Shirou by that time.
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Unread postby Zensunni » November 18th, 2008, 7:28 pm

After Shirou lost Saber, I don't think Avalon had any considerable effect or regenerative power left, I think otherwise he would have been aware of its existence earlier in his life. He got into a lot of fights all the time as a kid, I think he would have noticed if he was like that chick from Heroes. No, instead Avalon's effects were limited to him never catching a cold. The time Kiritsugu saved him using Avalon was possible because Kiritsugu was a skilled magus and managed to activate Avalon using his own mana.

I think Archer's arm projected swords to keep Shirou's body together or else it would have broken down immeadiately from using the magic...or something like that.
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Unread postby Raitei » November 19th, 2008, 1:25 am

Zensunni wrote:After Shirou lost Saber, I don't think Avalon had any considerable effect or regenerative power left, I think otherwise he would have been aware of its existence earlier in his life. He got into a lot of fights all the time as a kid, I think he would have noticed if he was like that chick from Heroes. No, instead Avalon's effects were limited to him never catching a cold. The time Kiritsugu saved him using Avalon was possible because Kiritsugu was a skilled magus and managed to activate Avalon using his own mana.
hmm, I would think it's simply because of the amount of mana left in avalon healed shirou when kiritsugu implanted it inside his body instead if kiritsugu's ability...

Zensunni wrote:I think Archer's arm projected swords to keep Shirou's body together or else it would have broken down immeadiately from using the magic...or something like that.
... no. artificial phantasm (the chapter) clearly says that archer's arm is a curse, a time bomb that will eventually destroy him, not otherwise.
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
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Unread postby Rikh » November 19th, 2008, 2:31 am

Raitei wrote:
Zensunni wrote:After Shirou lost Saber, I don't think Avalon had any considerable effect or regenerative power left, I think otherwise he would have been aware of its existence earlier in his life. He got into a lot of fights all the time as a kid, I think he would have noticed if he was like that chick from Heroes. No, instead Avalon's effects were limited to him never catching a cold. The time Kiritsugu saved him using Avalon was possible because Kiritsugu was a skilled magus and managed to activate Avalon using his own mana.
hmm, I would think it's simply because of the amount of mana left in avalon healed shirou when kiritsugu implanted it inside his body instead if kiritsugu's ability...

Zensunni wrote:I think Archer's arm projected swords to keep Shirou's body together or else it would have broken down immeadiately from using the magic...or something like that.
... no. artificial phantasm (the chapter) clearly says that archer's arm is a curse, a time bomb that will eventually destroy him, not otherwise.


welp
Without the curse of archers arm shiro would have died from...
Berserker
Saber
Sakura's attacks
and kotomine

His swords pretty much did protect him, although causing him intolerable pain and restrictions, kept his vital organs inside one place at least :)


During UBW it was stated somewhere that if done wrong, shiro could project swords into his own body. However he stated clearly in UBW that swords would never harm him.
Maybe straying from his ideal gave an ironic twist of fate....
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Unread postby Raitei » November 19th, 2008, 2:49 am

Rikh wrote:Maybe straying from his ideal gave an ironic twist of fate....
...since when falling over a 4 story building makes you stray from your ideal? :?
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
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Unread postby Serpentarius » November 19th, 2008, 2:59 am

Maybe he accidentally borrowed another of Kiritsugu's ideals. "When I was a child, I wanted to be a superhero... also, to never fall from the fourth story of a building. That would totally suck."
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Unread postby gexer64 » November 19th, 2008, 3:10 am

"Just because your a superhero, doesn't mean you can fly shirou. "
Words that Kiritsugu forgot to tell shirou...
In a single answer lies a thousand questions.
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Unread postby BlackTornado » November 19th, 2008, 4:28 am

gexer64 wrote:"Just because your a superhero, doesn't mean you can fly shirou. "
Words that Kiritsugu forgot to tell shirou...


rofl well said
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Unread postby matthewfarenheit » November 19th, 2008, 4:32 am

Maybe, and I'm saying just MAYBE... when Shirou practiced in the shed making a Magic Circuit, in fact he was implanting himself a sword on his body? It's just that the "hot iron rod" comparation he makes reminds me of that A LOT. What do you think?
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Unread postby Tsubasa » November 19th, 2008, 7:15 am

Nope the feeling was described as putting a hot iron rod in your spine, it's like piercings you're sticking something in your body that originally shouldn't belong in it. So obviously it's going to hurt if it's more than just skin deep. That and I think placing a sword in your spine would hurt a lot more than just a hot iron rod.
It seems as though only those that contradict existence are allowed to call themselves heroes.
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Unread postby Xamdou » November 19th, 2008, 12:54 pm

Maybe Shirou is transforming into Ironman :shock:
"You sit proudly in this cave , like a Queen of Egypt.
In my service to you , I shall never know rest.
To prove my devotion , I have stolen this ostentatious offering.
But I'll show you things your dark blue eye haven't seen , smiles like a lake in the sun , blossoming like a lotus."
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Unread postby Raitei » November 19th, 2008, 1:25 pm

Xamdou wrote:Maybe Shirou is transforming into Ironman :shock:
iron man doesn't have steel inside his body... >_>
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
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Unread postby AlextheLazy » November 19th, 2008, 4:07 pm

Raitei wrote:
Xamdou wrote:Maybe Shirou is transforming into Ironman :shock:
iron man doesn't have steel inside his body... >_>


iirc some shrapnel in his chest is made of steel :P
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Unread postby Rikh » November 19th, 2008, 8:52 pm

Raitei wrote:
Rikh wrote:Maybe straying from his ideal gave an ironic twist of fate....
...since when falling over a 4 story building makes you stray from your ideal? :?


dunno, but in fate he nearly died
and in HF from the same height gave him a headache...

Straying from ideals evidently can provide some nice balances...
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Unread postby twilightNoir » November 20th, 2008, 4:20 am

what if he just fell on a gate with spikes?
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