Shirou v. Shirou [SPOILERS]

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nobaka
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Shirou v. Shirou [SPOILERS]

Unread post by nobaka » November 5th, 2008, 8:58 pm

The general consensus seems to be that HF Shirou is endlessly stronger than UBW Shirou. I don't get it. HF Shirou is completely powerless on his own. Even after receiving the GARm, he can only use it a few times before his brain explodes. While I agree that UBW Shirou would have NO FUCKING CHANCE against Black Berserker, I don't really consider that a basis for overall growth since he would have been unable to do it sans GARm.

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Unread post by that one guy » November 5th, 2008, 9:17 pm

HF Shirou would win, every time. Even after he loses the arm, HF Shirou has the battle experience necessary to beat UBW Shirou. And, even if UBW Shirou could get off UBW, he still wouldn't be good enough to beat HF Shirou. I mean, this is the same guy who beat Black Saber on his own, and nearly killed her. That's damned impressive.

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Unread post by Kcuf » November 5th, 2008, 9:20 pm

HF Shirou got more variety of skills he can use, here are the examples: "Nine lives Blade Works", "4-layer Rho Aius", "Caladbolg II", and "Kansho/Bakuya 3-pair combo", plus all the weapons UBW Shirou can use. Also he got a reinforced body and almost a servants speed. I would say that HF Shirou wins, heck, he got access to UBW after 2 years.

Excuse my English...

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Unread post by Rikh » November 5th, 2008, 9:28 pm

yah but the point is
► Show Spoiler
Thats why i believe UBW shiro is more capable than HF shiro. UBW shiro can reach higher levels over time, as HF shiro is unable to

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Unread post by negum » November 5th, 2008, 9:36 pm

I think what nobaka is trying to say is that HF Shirou's abilities come all from archer's arm.
So his growth is in fact not as big as UBW Shirou's.

Yeah, HF Shirou beats Saber. But his using Archer's experience, fightingstyle and has an reiforced body.
UBW Shirou, on the other hand, is fighting on a par with Gil without this stuff.

I'm not saying that UBW Shirou can beat HF Shirou in a fight. And I'm not saying that HF Shirou will win either. =P

Edit: Seems it took me too long to type. -_-;

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Unread post by nobaka » November 5th, 2008, 10:58 pm

Kcuf wrote:HF Shirou got more variety of skills he can use, here are the examples: "Nine lives Blade Works", "4-layer Rho Aius", "Caladbolg II", and "Kansho/Bakuya 3-pair combo", plus all the weapons UBW Shirou can use. Also he got a reinforced body and almost a servants speed. I would say that HF Shirou wins, heck, he got access to UBW after 2 years.

Excuse my English...
The only thing that he made on his own is Nine Lives Blade Works. His body didn't get reinforced at all. It was just as weak as it had been (with regular physical training). Speed, battle experience, and all other weapons/techniques come from GARm.

Edit: Negum: Yes. UBW Shirou BEATS Gilgamesh.

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Unread post by Rikh » November 6th, 2008, 3:13 am

nobaka wrote:
Kcuf wrote:HF Shirou got more variety of skills he can use, here are the examples: "Nine lives Blade Works", "4-layer Rho Aius", "Caladbolg II", and "Kansho/Bakuya 3-pair combo", plus all the weapons UBW Shirou can use. Also he got a reinforced body and almost a servants speed. I would say that HF Shirou wins, heck, he got access to UBW after 2 years.

Excuse my English...
The only thing that he made on his own is Nine Lives Blade Works. His body didn't get reinforced at all. It was just as weak as it had been (with regular physical training). Speed, battle experience, and all other weapons/techniques come from GARm.

Edit: Negum: Yes. UBW Shirou BEATS Gilgamesh.
eh he didnt do that on his own
HF shiro doesn't even know he is capable of tracing swords on his own until very late in the game, and then he only does so after inheriting knowledge from archer

And for nine lives, that was pretty much all his arms work. He had boosted stamina, and servant like speed by that point (example: him and kotomine running at like 50mph from berserker.... Also jumping from an equivalent nine story building and surviving...)

He did manage to copy berserkers sword once, but it was instantly shattered. for the second round, he used archers arm. Unable to use Unlimited Blade Works, he created Nine Live Blade Works based off of the NP of Hercules's sword
At least that's what i interpreted

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Unread post by Raitei » November 6th, 2008, 3:16 am

nobaka wrote:
Kcuf wrote:HF Shirou got more variety of skills he can use, here are the examples: "Nine lives Blade Works", "4-layer Rho Aius", "Caladbolg II", and "Kansho/Bakuya 3-pair combo", plus all the weapons UBW Shirou can use. Also he got a reinforced body and almost a servants speed. I would say that HF Shirou wins, heck, he got access to UBW after 2 years.

Excuse my English...
The only thing that he made on his own is Nine Lives Blade Works. His body didn't get reinforced at all. It was just as weak as it had been (with regular physical training). Speed, battle experience, and all other weapons/techniques come from GARm.

Edit: Negum: Yes. UBW Shirou BEATS Gilgamesh.
sun tzu once said that retreat != defeat. :)
oh, and as a sidenote, magic circuit activation = slight boost in speed, strength, and stamina. so additional circuits = additional boost.
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Unread post by nobaka » November 6th, 2008, 4:08 am

Raitei wrote:
nobaka wrote:
Kcuf wrote:HF Shirou got more variety of skills he can use, here are the examples: "Nine lives Blade Works", "4-layer Rho Aius", "Caladbolg II", and "Kansho/Bakuya 3-pair combo", plus all the weapons UBW Shirou can use. Also he got a reinforced body and almost a servants speed. I would say that HF Shirou wins, heck, he got access to UBW after 2 years.

Excuse my English...
The only thing that he made on his own is Nine Lives Blade Works. His body didn't get reinforced at all. It was just as weak as it had been (with regular physical training). Speed, battle experience, and all other weapons/techniques come from GARm.

Edit: Negum: Yes. UBW Shirou BEATS Gilgamesh.
sun tzu once said that retreat != defeat. :)
oh, and as a sidenote, magic circuit activation = slight boost in speed, strength, and stamina. so additional circuits = additional boost.
Sun Tzu is also dead. :P (lulz)

In that fight, Shirou removes the shroud and then his mind goes through a quick list of what's been gained from Archer.
► Show Spoiler
Also:

"Emiya Shirou cannot handle this giant sword./
But---my left arm will definitely reproduce the strength of my enemy."

Edit: Wow. Doesn't FEEL like I've posted here 200 times.

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Unread post by Kid-Wolf » November 6th, 2008, 4:34 am

I thought of it this way for Shirou:
► Show Spoiler
So with that in mind I can understnad no one cares about Shirou form the Fate side, but the UBW vs the HF version is kind of a toss-up since they have different strengths and weeknesses in each storyline though.

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Unread post by Raitei » November 6th, 2008, 4:36 am

Sun Tzu is also dead. :P (lulz)
yeah, but that doesn't deny the fact that retreat != defeat in every term, lol.
Kid-Wolf wrote:I thought of it this way for Shirou:
► Show Spoiler
So with that in mind I can understnad no one cares about Shirou form the Fate side, but the UBW vs the HF version is kind of a toss-up since they have different strengths and weeknesses in each storyline though.
strength and ability-wise, yes. but in maturity as a character, ubw shirou sux n00b ass. :P
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
Fate/world providence

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Unread post by Kid-Wolf » November 6th, 2008, 4:42 am

Raitei wrote:
Kid-Wolf wrote:I thought of it this way for Shirou:
► Show Spoiler
So with that in mind I can understnad no one cares about Shirou form the Fate side, but the UBW vs the HF version is kind of a toss-up since they have different strengths and weeknesses in each storyline though.
strength and ability-wise, yes. but in maturity as a character, ubw shirou sux n00b ass. :P
Hence the reason for him being called a total idiot. I mean he might be worse personality wise then he was in Fate. Although if we're going by personality traits I think it's like this:
► Show Spoiler
Well that's my take though.

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Unread post by gexer64 » November 6th, 2008, 5:16 am

► Show Spoiler
NLBW sucks cuz' it doesn't have a kick ass CG. :D
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Unread post by fakeremiya » November 6th, 2008, 5:57 am

gexer64 wrote:
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NLBW sucks cuz' it doesn't have a kick ass CG. :D
NLBW does have CG but its in the Realta Nua ver. :D
► Show Spoiler
► Show Spoiler

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Unread post by Kid-Wolf » November 6th, 2008, 6:12 am

fakeremiya wrote:
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Oh yeah, since you mentioned that
► Show Spoiler

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Unread post by nanaya_shinya » November 6th, 2008, 6:37 am

HF Shirou, insta-GAR but die quicker.

or

UBW Shirou, slow but sure path to GAR...

Hmmm, which to choose?
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Unread post by Nerroth » November 6th, 2008, 6:46 am

Slow but sure.

Besides, if you were given a choice between living an UBW or HF route, it would be about more than what happens to you.

It would (in theory, at least) also be about the impact the War would thus have on the city at large.

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Unread post by Raitei » November 6th, 2008, 7:01 am

Kid-Wolf wrote:
fakeremiya wrote:
► Show Spoiler
Oh yeah, since you mentioned that
► Show Spoiler
► Show Spoiler
Nerroth wrote:
► Show Spoiler
► Show Spoiler
Last edited by Raitei on November 6th, 2008, 7:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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I'm an agent of chaos."
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Unread post by Kid-Wolf » November 6th, 2008, 7:07 am

Raitei wrote:
Nerroth wrote:
► Show Spoiler
► Show Spoiler
Well not only that,
► Show Spoiler

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Unread post by Tsubasa » November 6th, 2008, 3:35 pm

Here's my break down.
Both HF and UBW Shiro learn from Archer.
However while UBW Shiro learns to use the reality marble sooner than HF Shiro he lacks the experience to effectively use it.
Not to mention while UBW shiro has access to it, you're fighting against someone that has the experience of the original user and creator of said technique. In other words, it's totally pointless.
Tack on the fact that the experience UBW Shiro gains fighting through the Holy Grail war is minor compared to gaining battle experience from a literally endless time span...
Pretty sure HF Shiro takes the cake.

And none of this "Oh but he'll die using the GARm" stuff too, because in a VS match you're main objective is to kill/defeat/horriblyrape/disable your opponent, dying comes after the match. :P

*Edit*
Oh and by the way, HF Shiro says he could locate the incantation for Unlimited Blade Works, but says he can't use it if I'm not mistaken because his words aren't the same.
OR at least thats what I think I read a couple hours ago when my brain was functioning.
Interpret it how you will, I think HF Unlimited blade works incantation is different because of his change in ideals.
Last edited by Tsubasa on November 6th, 2008, 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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