Heaven's Feel Discussion [Spoilers!]

It's alright, we feel your pain. Noone wants to admit being gar for Berserker.

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rastilin
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Unread post by rastilin » November 23rd, 2008, 2:28 am

I agree with Rufus completely at this point on basically all his points, but I want to give a real life example...

The Unabomber, Mr Theodore Kaczynski, he'd still be with us if his brother hadn't turned him in.
Rufus, you're pretty much thinking like a robot or a computer. Reality don't work that way.

Kill a loved one with your own hands will never be the solution to nothing. That kind of radical point of view is totally wrong from the start.

I pity you, really. I want to quit of this.
I pity you too. Partly because you're just not getting it, despite our repeated attempts to hammer the point into you.

Loved One != Serial Killer

It's something that would never happen, the terms are mutually exclusive. I, and Rufus too I suspect, cannot love a serial killer, or a mass rapist, etc.

Rufus
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Unread post by Rufus » November 23rd, 2008, 3:02 am

Kansho wrote:Rufus, you're pretty much thinking like a robot or a computer. Reality don't work that way.

Kill a loved one with your own hands will never be the solution to nothing. That kind of radical point of view is totally wrong from the start.

I pity you, really. I want to quit of this.
Letting other people die for your loved ones is not the solution either. Ideally, you can save them both, but Reality does not work that way. Fortunately for many of us, we will never have to make a decision like this, but Shirou did and it is my firm belief that he made the wrong choice.

Go ahead and quit if you don't have anything of real value to say and I don't need your pity.

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Unread post by Watashimo » November 23rd, 2008, 3:22 am

Wow, quite an argument you guys had. Image Well my opinion is exactly opposite of Rufus in that loved ones have more value than strangers. I think that goes for most anyone on the planet. But at the same time I understand your point as well. There can be no winner in this argument because its a battle of beliefs not facts.

abscess
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Unread post by abscess » November 23rd, 2008, 6:07 am

Shikiller wrote:i wrote that right after abcess question, and when i hit reply, there were 2 replies already.
And Arcueid is like a fairy, so nature spirit is right. but yes Natur geist sounds cooler
Yeah. Wasn't it said in Tsukihime that she is some sort of a spirit of the world or... something....naturey...? Anyway. I'd go fot nature spirit, since I can understand it. Natur geist is like "what the fuck is that? a fart?" so.... :roll:
Watashimo wrote:Wow, quite an argument you guys had. Well my opinion is exactly opposite of Rufus in that loved ones have more value than strangers. I think that goes for most anyone on the planet. But at the same time I understand your point as well. There can be no winner in this argument because its a battle of beliefs not facts.
Wow.... after a coupe of pages of argument went on with, quite frankly, nothing of much interest going on, finally some logic is shown. I'm not even gonna comment on this matter anymore.
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.

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Unread post by Atriel » November 23rd, 2008, 6:08 am

Hey guys, i just finished Heaven's Feel =D

Both True and Normal Ending, i have yet to get all the tiger stamps. (Have been studying... fucking shit.)

I can say that overall i liked it, even if Sakura is a bit boring for me. When Shirou gets Archer's arm (as everyone said) this became Epic. Not just because of the arm, but everything started flowing smoothly together with that fact and epicness arrived.

The True ending was pretty good, and i even thought for a second that this route was pretty much TEH Fate/Stay Night route, as it covered the reasons for the war and what not. Pretty good overall, though i was expecting some awesomeness from Lancer. Best part? Gilgamesh and Shinji died. Hahaha, those assholes deserved it <_< Too bad they didn't suffer too much.

Now then, the Normal ending... i think it was named normal because... it sucked balls. Not much to add, it left me with a "._." face.

So, Fate/Stay Night is overall awesome, taking a mythical theme mixed with a bit of philosophy, some gore here and there and more things that i'm too lazy to write. I still prefer Tsukihime though :P Too bad Arcueid's awesomeness wasn't exploited in the Far Side of the Moon... and this is offtopic.

Can't wait to get all the stamps left (Like 10).

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Unread post by Kid-Wolf » November 23rd, 2008, 6:18 am

I think with that illustration there it means in olny one of those muliple worlds only one was desgenated as the one where Shirou becomes an hero. There needs to be only one wolrd where that can happen. Although the stuff he does during the 5th Grail War alone makes him a prime canidate to becaome Archer no matter what route he takes though.

In any case it sounds rather believable if you ask me since the Nasuverse is a multiuniversal world to begin with so this is all possible to happen now.

*edit*

And by being gone this long I'm way behind what you guys are talking about now.

stryk3r
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Unread post by stryk3r » November 23rd, 2008, 9:13 am

Well according to UBW Shirou makes a pact with the universe near the end of his life to become a heroic spirit and avert some disaster, so it could happen with any of them really (Except HF normal end). If we're talking which Shirou is most likely to make that pact then become the bitter, nihilistic Archer who tries to retro actively kill himself, the Fate and UBW Shirous would each be close to 100% chances were they to make the pact (UBW slightly less since Tohsaka promised not to let him live like that). The HF Shirou throws away the ideals that turn him bitter in the afterlife though, so if he makes the pact I think we see a completely different Archer once all the time paradoxes finish unraveling.

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Unread post by Kansho » November 23rd, 2008, 11:01 am

Rufus wrote:Letting other people die for your loved ones is not the solution either. Ideally, you can save them both, but Reality does not work that way. Fortunately for many of us, we will never have to make a decision like this, but Shirou did and it is my firm belief that he made the wrong choice.

Go ahead and quit if you don't have anything of real value to say and I don't need your pity.
Yeah, but at least you're pretty much being faithful to yourself, or at least that goes for most of the people on this planet, and more in a abnormal case like that. If for you that didn't apply, ok then. It's your opinion. Your point against my point. Not better nor worse.

I can argue this forever, but it's like Watashimo said, this is a battle of beliefs/opinions not facts. So I got tired.
stryk3r wrote:Well according to UBW Shirou makes a pact with the universe near the end of his life to become a heroic spirit and avert some disaster, so it could happen with any of them really (Except HF normal end). If we're talking which Shirou is most likely to make that pact then become the bitter, nihilistic Archer who tries to retro actively kill himself, the Fate and UBW Shirous would each be close to 100% chances were they to make the pact (UBW slightly less since Tohsaka promised not to let him live like that). The HF Shirou throws away the ideals that turn him bitter in the afterlife though, so if he makes the pact I think we see a completely different Archer once all the time paradoxes finish unraveling.
According to the final dojo, seems that Fate Shirou is the one with the higher chances. UBW one seems that depends on Rin role in his life.
見せかけの自分はそっと捨ててただありのままで
misekake no jibun ha sotto sutete tada ari no mama de -
Throw away the "fake me" quietly and just be myself.

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Unread post by Ryougi07 » November 23rd, 2008, 11:35 am

So does that mean HF Shirou is going to get completely different future from UBW and Fate? BTW, regarding HF Shirou being able to use the UBW, how can he use it if the words of UBW are no longer his? Or can he make up for it using the exp and knowledge through archer's arm?

This is an off topic question:
► Show Spoiler
"You're better off without the scent of blood, I might just suddenly cut you up."

Kcuf
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Unread post by Kcuf » November 23rd, 2008, 11:45 am

I guess how the game is explained, if you have the power to use a Reality Marble, then it will change according to your personality. Someone has already suggested that HF Shirou's Reality Marble, is "Unlimited Imouto Works". :lol:

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Unread post by Atriel » November 23rd, 2008, 6:57 pm

Ryougi07 wrote:This is an off topic question:
► Show Spoiler
► Show Spoiler

NonExistence
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Unread post by NonExistence » November 23rd, 2008, 7:02 pm

Atriel wrote:
Ryougi07 wrote:This is an off topic question:
► Show Spoiler
► Show Spoiler
apparently.
► Show Spoiler
Whenever I go on, everyone leaves the Tsukihime forums. 'Cause I just fail like that.

abscess
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Unread post by abscess » November 23rd, 2008, 7:07 pm

NonExistence wrote:
Atriel wrote:
Ryougi07 wrote:This is an off topic question:
► Show Spoiler
► Show Spoiler
apparently.
► Show Spoiler
Really? Where is it posted? Haven't been to Beast's Lair in quite a while...
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.

NonExistence
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Unread post by NonExistence » November 23rd, 2008, 7:13 pm

don't remember. just that there was (maybe still is) a thread having that scene trans'ed.
Whenever I go on, everyone leaves the Tsukihime forums. 'Cause I just fail like that.

stryk3r
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Unread post by stryk3r » November 24th, 2008, 12:46 am

According to Tohsaka it would just be a matter of training for the HF Shirou to use UBW. He probably learned it from the arm to some degree, he just didn't have the ability to perform it during the war.

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Unread post by Rikh » November 24th, 2008, 2:36 am

stryk3r wrote:According to Tohsaka it would just be a matter of training for the HF Shirou to use UBW. He probably learned it from the arm to some degree, he just didn't have the ability to perform it during the war.
well Shiro is unable to use UBW no matter what after HF, its just that he has the ability to use a Reality Marble
although it might be very similar, the world will be different, and the chant is most likely changed as well.

Shiros reality marble i could almost guarantee you though would definitely be sword based still... Since his only true ability is projecting swords anyways

Besides that, he can still be equivalent to archer in the future if he trains hard, its just his ideals will be different

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Unread post by Jedah » November 24th, 2008, 6:22 pm

Garrgg

It seems no matter what I do, I end up with the HF normal end. Does anyone know which day/decision is needed to go down the true end path ?

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Unread post by Watashimo » November 24th, 2008, 6:35 pm

Jedah wrote:Garrgg

It seems no matter what I do, I end up with the HF normal end. Does anyone know which day/decision is needed to go down the true end path ?
You need more Ilya points, be nicer to Ilya. And in the final decision after you do that choose "I guess thats how it is." (I think thats the choice, going off memory)

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Unread post by Kcuf » November 24th, 2008, 6:42 pm

You must also not choose "Use another projection" when fighting against Black Saber with Rider.

Watashimo
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Unread post by Watashimo » November 24th, 2008, 7:58 pm

Oh yea, forgot about that.

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