Superman Servant (Spoilers)

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Superman Servant (Spoilers)

Unread postby elite5472 » October 5th, 2008, 1:18 am

If the requirements to become a servant are not what the hero has done but rather his legend... would there be a chance of... lets say... Superman.. to become a servant? :shock:
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Re: a small curiosity...

Unread postby zweiterversuch » October 5th, 2008, 1:19 am

elite5472 wrote:If the requirements to become a servant are not what the hero has done but rather his legend... would there be a chance of... lets say... Superman.. to become a servant? :shock:


Yes.

BTW here signatures with images aren't allowed...I think.
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Unread postby elite5472 » October 5th, 2008, 1:19 am

it would be pretty hilarious indeed :D
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Unread postby Atriel » October 5th, 2008, 4:42 am

That would be funny... just imagine it. It has been said before but, Goku?!?!?!


(As zwei said, you should remove your image... or get it removed by Message and warned by him.)
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Unread postby elite5472 » October 5th, 2008, 4:51 am

oh, i see... i didn't know >__>

I'll take it off now

goku would seriously destroy all the other servants in a few seconds... but what class would he be?
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Unread postby Atriel » October 5th, 2008, 5:37 am

Maity pownzor of nobzors. Goku only class.
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Re: a small curiosity...

Unread postby abscess » October 5th, 2008, 5:39 am

zweiterversuch wrote:
elite5472 wrote:If the requirements to become a servant are not what the hero has done but rather his legend... would there be a chance of... lets say... Superman.. to become a servant? :shock:


Yes.

Hmm... Really? I thought only people that existed could become heroes, supposing that there really was a King Arthur and a Gilgamesh and whatnot. Else... I dunno, why didn't Master Chief got to exist as a hero :P Hm! Maybe a hero Jesus would be an interesting thing to add to the story-line hahaha!... anyway, I'm starting to digress quite a bit...

As far as I know, the person that got a legend of incredible deeds in battle could become a hero, or a normal human being becoming a guardian, but that's another thing. Also I suggest you add a [spoiler] notice in the title of the thread, since the question itself is kinda spoiler-ish, I guess.
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Unread postby Message » October 5th, 2008, 6:15 am

elite5472 wrote:oh, i see... i didn't know >__>

I'll take it off now

The rules are linked at the very top of every page in the forums. It's bad form to post without reading a forum's rules.

Also, spoiler tag added.
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Re: a small curiosity...

Unread postby Belzera » October 5th, 2008, 8:19 am

abscess wrote:
zweiterversuch wrote:
elite5472 wrote:If the requirements to become a servant are not what the hero has done but rather his legend... would there be a chance of... lets say... Superman.. to become a servant? :shock:


Yes.

Hmm... Really? I thought only people that existed could become heroes, supposing that there really was a King Arthur and a Gilgamesh and whatnot. Else... I dunno, why didn't Master Chief got to exist as a hero :P Hm! Maybe a hero Jesus would be an interesting thing to add to the story-line hahaha!... anyway, I'm starting to digress quite a bit...

As far as I know, the person that got a legend of incredible deeds in battle could become a hero, or a normal human being becoming a guardian, but that's another thing. Also I suggest you add a [spoiler] notice in the title of the thread, since the question itself is kinda spoiler-ish, I guess.


Its generally accepted that there was a King called Gilgamesh from what I was aware of, but aren't most of the Heroes in F/SN only legends anyway?
Hercules?
King Arthur?
Lancelot?
Medea?
Medusa?

They're all legends aren't they?


So If enough time passed, it would be possible for Superman to be a valid hero, however this is only out of game since From my understanding of the game, Heroes generally have exsisted within the F/SN world
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Re: a small curiosity...

Unread postby matthewfarenheit » October 5th, 2008, 9:33 am

Belzera wrote:
abscess wrote:Hmm... Really? I thought only people that existed could become heroes, supposing that there really was a King Arthur and a Gilgamesh and whatnot. Else... I dunno, why didn't Master Chief got to exist as a hero :P Hm! Maybe a hero Jesus would be an interesting thing to add to the story-line hahaha!... anyway, I'm starting to digress quite a bit...

As far as I know, the person that got a legend of incredible deeds in battle could become a hero, or a normal human being becoming a guardian, but that's another thing. Also I suggest you add a [spoiler] notice in the title of the thread, since the question itself is kinda spoiler-ish, I guess.


It's generally accepted that there was a King called Gilgamesh from what I was aware of, but aren't most of the Heroes in F/SN only legends anyway?
Hercules?
King Arthur?
Lancelot?
Medea?
Medusa?

They're all legends aren't they?


So If enough time passed, it would be possible for Superman to be a valid hero, however this is only out of game since From my understanding of the game, Heroes generally have exsisted within the F/SN world

You're both right and wrong. Let me explain myself:
In F/SN universe Hercules, King Arthur, Lancelot, Medea, etc actually existed, so they don't count as "unexistent heroes with legends forged over time". Although this seems to exlude your "Superman Servant" from viability, we still have Sasaki Kojiro. He's a fictious heroe, he didn't exist, and he was summoned as "the farmer who could fill Sasaki's role more efficiently". Now, this opens two questions: who would fill the role of template for Superman Servant in the throne of heroes, and why does the Throne of Heroes store him as a template in the first place? I think the last question may be applied to Kojiro as well: why did an unknown farmer's soul got stored in the throne of heroes to be later used as a template for a fictious hero? It probably has to do with the Throne being atemporal, thus already "knowing" and thus, having stored all the souls that would be needed for summoning at any time, or something like that.
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Unread postby Anium » October 5th, 2008, 1:21 pm

But, sasaki kojiro fits another requisit.
He is like hassan, a lot of people with the same name
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Unread postby Tash » October 5th, 2008, 1:48 pm

Anium wrote:But, sasaki kojiro fits another requisit.
He is like hassan, a lot of people with the same name

So does Green Lantern. Can we summon him?
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Unread postby Raitei » October 5th, 2008, 3:35 pm

Tash wrote:
Anium wrote:But, sasaki kojiro fits another requisit.
He is like hassan, a lot of people with the same name

So does Green Lantern. Can we summon him?
well, the one that is most likely to be summoned is hal jordan, then. just like the nameless farmer with tsubame gaeshi move is summoned.


matthewfarenheit wrote:
who would fill the role of template for Superman Servant in the throne of heroes, and why does the Throne of Heroes store him as a template in the first place?
well, the one who would fulfill the role of superman is definitely the original superman, clark kent / kal-el. because unlike hassan, the hero called superman is the one and only superman.

that said, it's only viable IF AND ONLY IF superman exists in nasuverse.
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Unread postby Belzera » October 5th, 2008, 5:13 pm

@matthewfarenheit

Yeah, I get that, but I was partially saying that If HF magic exsisted and the Holy Grail WAr exsisted in real life then after many centuries Superman could possibly become a hero, similar to Sasaki Kojiro as we currently in the Real world know whether the Legends I named previously existed. Anywhoo

As for 'Kojiro' being summoned I believe the Idea of Kojiro was stored in the Throne becuase of the strength of the legend, since it was a particularly strong legend in Japan and the strength of the Servant is effected by how well known its legend is at the time, so The Throne has the 'idea' of 'kojiro' stored in itself and only needs a piece that fits the idea.

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Unread postby Zarxs » October 5th, 2008, 7:49 pm

The way I see it Superman, Green Lantern and other heroes of that type could only be summoned in the same way Kojiro was; an improper summoning as a result of caster breaking the rules. One of the things required to summon a servant is a physical connection to them, such as something they had during their lifetime. Considering Superman never lived and thus had no possessions a master would be unable to make a physical connection to him which makes summoning him by normal means, impossible.
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Unread postby matthewfarenheit » October 5th, 2008, 8:13 pm

Raitei wrote:
matthewfarenheit wrote:
who would fill the role of template for Superman Servant in the throne of heroes, and why does the Throne of Heroes store him as a template in the first place?
well, the one who would fulfill the role of superman is definitely the original superman, clark kent / kal-el. because unlike hassan, the hero called superman is the one and only superman.

that said, it's only viable IF AND ONLY IF superman exists in nasuverse.

Read 1st, this is not what the author of the question meant. He means that if Superman didn't exist, and enough time passed, and a legend is constructed around him the same as with Kojiro, then would people be able to summon him? The biggest problem is this, IMHO: The Holy Grail was lucky enough to find a farmer that could execute Tsubame Gaeshi, but are there farmers around that can fly, breathe ice, stop trains in its tracks, run faster than a bullet, shot heat beams out of their eyes and everything Superman, depending on version, does? I don't think so.... Maybe some flashy magus? Probably the flashier and most powerful couldn't fulfill the role. Also, enough time should have passed for evidence of Superman being a fictious creation being scarce enough that only selected people may deduce that he didn't exist, but simultaneously many people should know about him and believe that he existed (definition of a legend). Then, if the grail can find a situable template for Superman, an Action Comic N?1 or a backbone of Jerry Siegel should do the job as catalistic.
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Unread postby Rikh » October 5th, 2008, 9:41 pm

Goku could definitely be called by caster if she had a nice catalyst and some h4x to spend
Also nasu would have to say he exists in his universe



Watching shiro fight goku would be pretty kick ass for the picoseconds it happened
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Unread postby AvatarofRage » October 5th, 2008, 9:43 pm

Well perhaps someone who had won a Holy grail War and wished for ultimate power? Either that or someone with a particularly potent Marble Phantasm that only impacted themself to prevent the world from canceling it out (like Nero's Chaos) that basically made them indestructible and all that jazz.

But still, my question is exactly what class Superman would be? I don't recall him having an affinity, or even using a weapon of any type, so Saber, Archer and Lancer are out. My DC knowledge is lacking, so its possible for a Berserker Superman. Certaintly not possible for an Assassin superman, nor a Caster, since his powers aren't magic. Rider maybe? Has Superman ever had a notable mount?

I suppose his Marble Phantasm would be along the lines of "Man of Steel", and would basically allow him to fight at his full capacity (as in not holding pack to make sure his punch doesn't tear some guys head off).

Goku as a Servant has similar issues, although he might make it as a rider since he did spent a lot of time using the nimbus cloud as transport, then again, he went berserk more than once. I suppose his Noble Phantasm's would be his super-saiyan stages.

Hmm...I wonder if I can get a Bugs Bunny Servant...
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Unread postby elite5472 » October 5th, 2008, 11:12 pm

AvatarofRage wrote:Well perhaps someone who had won a Holy grail War and wished for ultimate power? Either that or someone with a particularly potent Marble Phantasm that only impacted themself to prevent the world from canceling it out (like Nero's Chaos) that basically made them indestructible and all that jazz.

But still, my question is exactly what class Superman would be? I don't recall him having an affinity, or even using a weapon of any type, so Saber, Archer and Lancer are out. My DC knowledge is lacking, so its possible for a Berserker Superman. Certaintly not possible for an Assassin superman, nor a Caster, since his powers aren't magic. Rider maybe? Has Superman ever had a notable mount?

I suppose his Marble Phantasm would be along the lines of "Man of Steel", and would basically allow him to fight at his full capacity (as in not holding pack to make sure his punch doesn't tear some guys head off).

Goku as a Servant has similar issues, although he might make it as a rider since he did spent a lot of time using the nimbus cloud as transport, then again, he went berserk more than once. I suppose his Noble Phantasm's would be his super-saiyan stages.

Hmm...I wonder if I can get a Bugs Bunny Servant...


both goku and superman fit as caster, goku uses the DBverse equivalent of magi to fight after all (ki)

Nazuverse would alter superman's background story to make him a magus of some sorts.... (like he was born with so many magic circuits he could do all the amazing stuff instinctively and what not...
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Unread postby Raitei » October 6th, 2008, 1:09 am

matthewfarenheit wrote:Read 1st, this is not what the author of the question meant. He means that if Superman didn't exist, and enough time passed, and a legend is constructed around him the same as with Kojiro, then would people be able to summon him? The biggest problem is this, IMHO: The Holy Grail was lucky enough to find a farmer that could execute Tsubame Gaeshi, but are there farmers around that can fly, breathe ice, stop trains in its tracks, run faster than a bullet, shot heat beams out of their eyes and everything Superman, depending on version, does? I don't think so.... Maybe some flashy magus? Probably the flashier and most powerful couldn't fulfill the role.
if so, trust me, there won't be any. if a magi ( or any person ) would've reached the level of heroism like superman ( note : sasaki kojirou is not a hero. at least, to the degree of heroism like superman ), s/he would most likely developed an identity for himself / herself.

both goku and superman fit as caster, goku uses the DBverse equivalent of magi to fight after all (ki)
note that servants fit under caster class cast / chant something.
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