Rin personality contradictions [massive Fate/UBW spoil]

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Rin personality contradictions [massive Fate/UBW spoil]

Unread postby ayadew » September 29th, 2008, 5:42 pm

^ SPOILERS zomg

I came to think of the different pesonalities Rin shows up. She really does perplex me.
So let's grab a spoon and dig into her head.

First we see Rin as a proper, educated lady that is very aware of it. Her primary objective in life is to be the best, and she makes sure people know this too, likely enjoying that a little too. Even in the introduction you see her enjoying putting Shinjin into fear and awe.
After some iterations of her character development we know her as extremely strong-willed, but kind to those she cares about. Overall a good natured person, (perhaps Chaotic Good in D&D terms).

But then we see a completely different side.

She is a complete SMBS queen in the first H-scene in Fate, enjoying dominating Saber in all ways and getting off in a corner watching Shirou and Saber doing it. It's quite shocking, you begin to wonder if this is Rin at all or some twisted immitation. She becomes a nymphomaniac by the definition. Although she does admit "I didn't know I swung this way"... how very humble!
But (per personal taste) I liked this side of her. It made me look forward to UBW to see more of this carnal aggresiveness she showed. Or maybe her character would be forever changed now?
It did not, she reverts into her calculating self after as if nothing happened. With all I've learned of people in my life, this simply doesn't work out.
Rin, obviously releasing all her limits and going all out, will forever remember that place and dream about it.
She would want more, and she would take it by force.

Her kind of person is a slave to her own desire. She cannot simply ignore it.
Perhaps she went and fucked her brains out with Archer later though, what do I know...

In UBW her initial personality is presented in the same way. We get to know more background story to her perhaps, but her personality remains the same. Late in the story she decides (Shirou will never have a decision in these things ever in his life I believe) to help Shirou with his mana-problems for UBW.
And now she's all submissive and pathetic, like Saber. This is a polar opposite to the Rin we got to know in Fate. This is a story that takes place over max 20 days, a person's character simply does not change that much.

Thus overall I don't get Rin at all. I don't know her. Perhaps she doesn't know herself too, is that the intention of Nasu? Of all the time she decicated to master her magic and scholary pursuits, she perhaps forgot to master herself. If nothing is explained in HF (which I strongly doubt) she is a deeply flawed character, which I still like much, but annoys me.
Thoughts?
The instant I tear off your limbs, rip open your chest and pull out your intestines, biting into your neck as you ask for mercy, chewing through your eyes and spreading your brains on the ground like butter-------!
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Unread postby Kansho » September 29th, 2008, 6:18 pm

Don't take Fate first H-scene as something really serious...
見せかけの自分はそっと捨ててただありのままで
misekake no jibun ha sotto sutete tada ari no mama de -
Throw away the "fake me" quietly and just be myself.
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Unread postby ayadew » September 29th, 2008, 6:33 pm

Contradictions aren't serious?
The instant I tear off your limbs, rip open your chest and pull out your intestines, biting into your neck as you ask for mercy, chewing through your eyes and spreading your brains on the ground like butter-------!
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Unread postby boingman » September 29th, 2008, 6:58 pm

ayadew, I noticed that too, but as Kansho said, we should probably ignore the H scenes. Male Type-Moon charas probably have to dominate the female characters, when it comes to sex, so Rin got all submissive when it was "her turn" for the "mana transfer".

Guess it's up to Sakura (who has great Yandere potential) to turn the tables in HF.
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Unread postby Atriel » September 29th, 2008, 7:02 pm

I thought the same. Even if it was "just an H scene", that doesn't mean she should just turn lesbian or horny or what not if she really isn't. (This behaviour is not seen again in the whole game, unless it happens in HF... which i doubt.)

I DO think that act suited her, seeing how bossy she is and all those characteristics you mentioned. Then i get to read UBW scene and that's where i was like:

"Wut? Shy? For fuck's sake, she fingered Saber!" I even thought she would outright rip Shirou off of his pants and get down to it! Okay, i'm exaggerating but you get what i mean.

The sad truth is that it was just made like that in order to have the scenes (Unless someone explains a reason, i can't think of anything else).

If someone asked me, i'd say that the weird or incoherent sex scene, is the one in UBW.
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Unread postby ayadew » September 29th, 2008, 7:09 pm

boingman wrote:Male Type-Moon charas probably have to dominate the female characters


That is a valid point for generic Visual Novels. Makes me sad Nasu goes that low, even if he doesn't like writing H.

Atriel wrote:If someone asked me, i'd say that the weird or incoherent sex scene, is the one in UBW.


Yes, it's truly out of place. Together with that horrible music lol. It's completely uninspiring and meaningless, same with Sabers 2:nd.
The Rin I knew (from Fate) would just abuse the moron and get it over with.
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Unread postby Atriel » September 29th, 2008, 7:28 pm

And if she likes what she gets, she'd get it again when she feels like it :lol:

Edit: Hey, cute-sexy succubus butt woot!
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Unread postby Tash » September 29th, 2008, 8:02 pm

The difference is that the first time, she was trying to get Shirou and Saber to sex. She was a third party. The second time, she was the one being sexed.
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Unread postby Anium » September 29th, 2008, 9:15 pm

Rin is like that the whole game, she acts bossy and is a tyran but whenever shirou tells her she likes her, she is kind, etc.. she just blushes and she is not that firm. I thought we needed a scene like that, (rin abusing others), and I gess she was going to do that way, until shirou declares to her, I want to fuck you because I like you and that ...
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Unread postby zweiterversuch » September 29th, 2008, 9:34 pm

To the first posts in this thread.
There is something that Rin says in the first H scene (the one with saber) that I like very much.
She says:
"I didn't think I would swing this way."

*Humu!*
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Unread postby abscess » September 29th, 2008, 9:49 pm

Aaah! Mr. Aya-man! I see we got annoyed at the very same thing! But I didn't pay much attention to the sex-scenes in this "game", in other words, I didn't take them seriously not one bit. Unlike Tsukihme, I didn't feel some sort of "bond" or whatever to the characters, or at least not of the same magnitude, therefore the characters felt, to me, "flatter" than the others ("OMG! I wanna be an uber-hero!"..... right.... even the wording of that seems rather stupid...). Sure! they are likable and in some ways believable, but that is a topic for another thread. Now, about Rin! if we happen to "take serious" the H-scenes (which is a hard task!), Rin's in Fate and UBW surely contradict her persona, but if we put it this way... Saber wasn't present in the equation in UBW, or at least not in "the scene", meaning that she may like to.... "abuse", for a lack of a better word at this moment, the female counterpart but prefers to act submissive when presented with "the man" in a more direct manner. Quoting Mr. Tash:
Tash wrote:[During Fate's H-scene] She was a third party. The second time [UBW's scene], she was the one being sexed.

Does it really work as a convincing excuse for that dramatic change?.... sorry, but not really, but it kinda helps to make it feel less crappy.

Saber acts less weird. Sure, se is the "proud super-soldier with the cool sword" and all that shit, but as far as we know (or at least I) she never really opened up to anyone of her era, meaning she always acted the role of "the immobable, strong king", and when she met the guy, who treated her like a woman (in a somewhat "old fashion style" if you ask me, to not say "stupid crap"... e.g. "OMG!! Gurls aren't meant to fight!!!elven!!one! Stay in the keetchen!!"..... you get my point....) she didn't really know how to act or what to do, and even felt like letting the guy take over, but in her H-scene when RIn wasn't present she was a bit more dominant when comparing it with the other one.
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.
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Unread postby Rikh » September 29th, 2008, 10:13 pm

i also must add that Rin is a Tsundere type character

She can be nice, but then charge at you with a whip the next second. Then she can act embarassed, or emotional enough to think the worlds on her shoulders

Famous Tsunderes are Louise, Shana, Rin, and a little bit of Haruhi :P
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Unread postby zweiterversuch » September 29th, 2008, 10:34 pm

Rikh wrote:i also must add that Rin is a Tsundere type character

She can be nice, but then charge at you with a whip the next second. Then she can act embarassed, or emotional enough to think the worlds on her shoulders

Famous Tsunderes are Louise, Shana, Rin, and a little bit of Haruhi :P


Are Louise and Shana from the same author? I mean, they resemble each other too much.

And there is this girl too.

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Unread postby Gram49 » September 29th, 2008, 11:17 pm

Saber's 2nd H-scene was was how i expected Rin's H-scene to be but even wilder considering Rin's personality as oppose to Saber's, and i agree that it seems like a contradiction but it's funny to see Shirou dominate her for once instead of it being the other way around all the time... lol.
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Unread postby Rikh » September 29th, 2008, 11:19 pm

zweiterversuch wrote:
Rikh wrote:i also must add that Rin is a Tsundere type character

She can be nice, but then charge at you with a whip the next second. Then she can act embarassed, or emotional enough to think the worlds on her shoulders

Famous Tsunderes are Louise, Shana, Rin, and a little bit of Haruhi :P


Are Louise and Shana from the same author? I mean, they resemble each other too much.

And there is this girl too.



MOE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i need a caps bigger than Caps to emphasize the MOE ness....
MOE!!!!!!!!!!

Louise and Shana, as well as Saito and Yuuji have the exact same voice acters
Yuuji's voice = Saito's Voice
Shana's Voice = Louise's voice

Also they are very similar types of characters too (except yuuji is much more controlled the saito... and shana becomes more mature than louise...) But they sadly have no relation at all =P

i think Rins character is somewhat lacking in comparison to these Tsundere stars.... Sakura better make up big time with her character :)
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Unread postby Atriel » September 30th, 2008, 12:34 am

I sense fail coming into this thread... but i hope i'm just paranoid.

Anyway, none of what has been stated seems convincing to me :roll:
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Unread postby teiglin » September 30th, 2008, 12:40 am

I agree with a lot of what's been said here. Basically I reacted like this: during first H scene in the forest, I thought "wow, this is the real Rin, twisted dark side! Hot!" We didn't really get to see more of it during Fate, but that didn't surprise me--she wouldn't have wanted to change her outer appearance, so she either suppressed that side for the rest of Fate (not a lot of time) or simply hid it from Shriou.

During UBW, I was very disappointed at the character change, but I simply chalked it up to eroge design flaws. I just have to consider that the scene in the forest was simply outside of her true character, trusting her route to show her personality more than a single sex scene, which is really just there for fanservice--truly excellent fanservice :D--but still not part of the main story.
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Unread postby Rikh » September 30th, 2008, 1:07 am

teiglin wrote:I agree with a lot of what's been said here. Basically I reacted like this: during first H scene in the forest, I thought "wow, this is the real Rin, twisted dark side! Hot!" We didn't really get to see more of it during Fate, but that didn't surprise me--she wouldn't have wanted to change her outer appearance, so she either suppressed that side for the rest of Fate (not a lot of time) or simply hid it from Shriou.

During UBW, I was very disappointed at the character change, but I simply chalked it up to eroge design flaws. I just have to consider that the scene in the forest was simply outside of her true character, trusting her route to show her personality more than a single sex scene, which is really just there for fanservice--truly excellent fanservice :D--but still not part of the main story.


But her ero scene displayed the rare purity of her Tsundere'ness!!!
it was win!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

imho of course :roll:
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Unread postby Cat Megex » September 30th, 2008, 3:53 am

Are Louise and Shana from the same author? I mean, they resemble each other too much.

And there is this girl too.



MOE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i need a caps bigger than Caps to emphasize the MOE ness....
MOE!!!!!!!!!!

Louise and Shana, as well as Saito and Yuuji have the exact same voice acters
Yuuji's voice = Saito's Voice
Shana's Voice = Louise's voice)


Heh...and Taiga's voice is the same, as you'll see once the Toradora! starts airing (first episode's this Wednesday!). (Interestingly, the animes the three characters are from [Shakugan no Shana, Zero no Tsukaima, and Toradora!] are all by J.C.Staff. It's just an interesting little note. *shrugs*)
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Unread postby teiglin » September 30th, 2008, 4:03 am

Rikh wrote:But her ero scene displayed the rare purity of her Tsundere'ness!!!
it was win!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

imho of course :roll:

Don't get me wrong, I like the deredere aspect shown in her ero scene. It's just different from the sexual predator aspect that came out in first ero scene in Fate. The two characters are inconsistent, which is frustrating because the only thing that's supposed to be different between routes is your own choices, not the world before the game starts.
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