Rin personality contradictions [massive Fate/UBW spoil]

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Unread postby Brizzle » October 10th, 2008, 4:44 am

TheBeard wrote:In Fate/hollow ataraxia, Rin cosplays as a Magical Girl

That's no cosplay. She actually gets powers from the wand.
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Unread postby Kiirnodel » October 10th, 2008, 6:01 am

Brizzle wrote:
TheBeard wrote:In Fate/hollow ataraxia, Rin cosplays as a Magical Girl

That's no cosplay. She actually gets powers from the wand.


Heheh, yeah, she does. But then again it is an item created by Zelretch, one of the few Sorcerers of the world. You know, those crazy powerful people that can make pretty much whatever they want happen? Yeah, well it turns out he has a really sick sense of humor and that wand he makes has a mind of its own...

Or something like that, thats just a tidbit of info I catch from Wiki's and whatnot, I tried playing Hollow Ataraxia but didn't get too far cuz I was being lazy, and then of course I had to roll back my computer and I didn't feel like reinstalling it.

From what I remember hollow ataraxia is in the Heaven's Feel timeline, so maybe I'll kick myself into gear after the final patch comes out :D
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Unread postby nanaya_shinya » October 10th, 2008, 10:07 am

Zelretch's influence (and sick humor) on the kaleidostick + Tohsaka Rin = Kaleido Ruby/Tohsaka moe!

I kinda liked that OMFG! face Rin had on Hollow Ataraxia.
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Unread postby Rikh » October 10th, 2008, 9:42 pm

old man Zelretch is pretty cool imho... i would say he is one of the most powerful people in the nasuverse

Alsoif any of you ever played Battle moon Wars... Shiro accidentally traces the caleidostick and it lands in rins hands, and she is ub3r moe there
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Unread postby Iiyo » October 30th, 2008, 1:53 am

Serpentarius wrote:There is no contradiction. Some characters are more complex with others.

Regarding Fate's first H scene, you may have noticed that Rin sort of has a thing for Saber. Right from their first encounter, Rin is somewhat fascinated with her, and apparently she also has a little bisexual streak, so the stage was set for it to come out strong during that scene. Being somewhat of a dominatrix is very much in the character that we'd expect from Rin.

Regarding UBW's H scene, she was actually in love with Shirou, which meant that she couldn't view the whole act as an amusement or whatever. The distinction between helping two people have sex, and having sex herself, is also important. And, finally, it's stated by Rin herself in some introspections in the prologue that she's the sort to completely fall apart at the most stressful times - I'd say that her mana charging with Shirou certainly qualifies. :P

Anyway, I would've preferred to see her act a bit differently as well, but her actions are still within character.


I was going to comment here, but this man declared my views for me. I'll additionally second Brizzle's explanation too:

Brizzle wrote:Wow, I never thought I'd find a thread like this interesting.

I think in Rin's case and in her mind, there is a difference between the two acts. Firstly, in the Fate scene, she is actively taking charge. She is being the instigator in an act she believes will help to save all three of their lives. I think it boils down to the fact that she is less emotionally involved with Shiro and Saber in Fate than she is with Shiro in UBW. In Fate, I can see it as much more of a primal necessity, while much more heart is involved in the UBW scene (despite the fact that I find that scene a little poorly done in some parts). It's more about necessity and less about emotion in Fate than it is in UBW. She is being very practical in Fate, at least in her mind. Saber needs prana NOW, and sexors is the most efficient way, so let's get some sexors on. She just got pretty into it, I suppose. I mean, she is a healthy teenager and I'm sure she has certain desires. I see the act as sort of a job that she was able to enjoy.

It seemed far different circumstances in UBW to me. We know that there are other ways of forming contracts like what was done in UBW. So perhaps Rin deliberately chose the method used in UBW. She chose to make love with Shiro because she was in love with him. With all the emotions she and him were going through near the end of UBW, she perhaps chose that method because she didn't know if they would survive and wanted the intimacy. Who can say? Rin's thought process are not very conventional.

Remember, Rin has spent her whole life embracing the way of the magus; suppressing her feelings and desires for the good of her education. I think in UBW an emotional line was crossed that never came up in Fate. By the time her and Shiro made love in UBW, she was thinking much more with her heart than she was used to. I believe this is what leads her to act so vulnerable and nervous. She's just not used to feeling what she was at the time. In the scene in Fate, she had to take a role she was comfortable in: being in charge and doing what was necessary.

tl;dr: It is a difference of emotion for Rin. For someone like her, it is a huge difference between what she feels for Shiro and Saber in Fate, and what she feels for Shiro at the end of UBW. She is adopting a different role in either case.

At least, that's what I think. God, I'm way too obsessed with this character. :oops:


Oh, about Rin liking Shirou...

One, try to enter Heaven's Feel route. The UBW patch's translation extends far enough that you can see Sakura explaining what Rin was referencing in the UBW True End.
Two, Fate route, when Saber takes a fatal blow against Berserker after coming from the church, opt to run away with Rin and see what Rin does.
Last edited by Iiyo on October 30th, 2008, 9:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Unread postby Xfraze » October 30th, 2008, 3:19 am

I did not see any contradictions with Rin's behavior in the UBW sex scene. Personally, I would have preferred if she was more domineering, but the way she acted in both scenes accurately portrayed her as a character imo.


The sex scene I hated most though was the second one in the fate route with Saber.

"Don't worry, I know how to please a man."

I read that and basically held down ctrl for the entire scene.
Last edited by Xfraze on October 30th, 2008, 3:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby KratosIrving » October 30th, 2008, 3:21 am

o.0 I thought everyone started lolling at that phrase. I certainly did. :P
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Unread postby Iiyo » October 30th, 2008, 3:36 am

Xfraze wrote:I did not see any contradictions with Rin's behavior in the UBW sex scene. Personally, I would have preferred if she was more domineering, but the way she acted in both scenes accurately portrayed her as a character imo.

The sex scene I hated most though was the second one in the fate route with Saber.

"Don't worry, I know how to please a man."

I read that and basically held down ctrl for the entire scene.


I didn't even want to think about that line. EW. EW. EW.

Anyhoo, Nasu is just good at writing XXX scenes that are way not erotic.
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Unread postby Wiiown » October 30th, 2008, 3:51 am

Xfraze wrote:I did not see any contradictions with Rin's behavior in the UBW sex scene. Personally, I would have preferred if she was more domineering, but the way she acted in both scenes accurately portrayed her as a character imo.


The sex scene I hated most though was the second one in the fate route with Saber.

"Don't worry, I know how to please a man."

I read that and basically held down ctrl for the entire scene.


Pffft, us forum goers totally figured out already that that particular line was due to Saber's
A rank instinct.
I found it totally hilarious anyway, that whole scene was actually pretty funny for the wrong reasons.
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Unread postby abscess » October 30th, 2008, 4:55 am

Hahahahaha!!!
I doubt anyone didn't laugh at that scene! It's so utterly stupid and inane that I was laughing while thinking "yeah! riiiight!". At any rate, I didn't really think that Saber was a virgin. I don't remember much about those scenes (its sheer idiocy didn't let me :lol:) but I think she didn't bleed after penetration, thus not a virgin.

It's not written in stone that Saber had never have sex before, but we just don't know and basing it in the lack of red-stuff is all I can think of. Probably she actually did know how to please a man! (Ahahaha!! :lol: those words together sound so lame!)
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.
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Unread postby Wiiown » October 30th, 2008, 5:59 am

abscess wrote:Hahahahaha!!!
I doubt anyone didn't laugh at that scene! It's so utterly stupid and inane that I was laughing while thinking "yeah! riiiight!". At any rate, I didn't really think that Saber was a virgin. I don't remember much about those scenes (its sheer idiocy didn't let me :lol:) but I think she didn't bleed after penetration, thus not a virgin.

It's not written in stone that Saber had never have sex before, but we just don't know and basing it in the lack of red-stuff is all I can think of. Probably she actually did know how to please a man! (Ahahaha!! :lol: those words together sound so lame!)


I re-read the first Fate scene at my own peril (my god what goes through Nasu's mind when writing this stuff, on second thought don't tell me)
and Saber did actually bleed, Tohsaka also made the comment that Saber was slovenly for enjoying it from behind for her first time >_>
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Unread postby Xfraze » October 30th, 2008, 6:26 am

Wiiown wrote:Pffft, us forum goers totally figured out already that that particular line was due to Saber's
A rank instinct.
I found it totally hilarious anyway, that whole scene was actually pretty funny for the wrong reasons.


Hahahaha. That's great right there. From now on, whenever people ask my why I know something, I'm going to say it's because I possess an A rank instinct as well.
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Unread postby Utsuho » October 30th, 2008, 12:43 pm

abscess wrote:Hahahahaha!!!
I doubt anyone didn't laugh at that scene! It's so utterly stupid and inane that I was laughing while thinking "yeah! riiiight!". At any rate, I didn't really think that Saber was a virgin. I don't remember much about those scenes (its sheer idiocy didn't let me :lol:) but I think she didn't bleed after penetration, thus not a virgin.

It's not written in stone that Saber had never have sex before, but we just don't know and basing it in the lack of red-stuff is all I can think of. Probably she actually did know how to please a man! (Ahahaha!! :lol: those words together sound so lame!)

Not all women bleed their first time, though. Just sayin'. :B
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Unread postby KratosIrving » October 30th, 2008, 12:47 pm

Considering accidents can happen where it breaks too. Horseback riding is a common one, and Saber does have a B in Riding...

But that's beside the point.
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Unread postby shirou12 » October 30th, 2008, 1:22 pm

well A rank instinct + B rank riding = better sex experience with a bit confusion.
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Unread postby abscess » October 30th, 2008, 5:02 pm

Utsuho wrote:Not all women bleed their first time, though. Just sayin'. :B

Yeah, but every girl in Tsukihime bleeds, except Kohaku who we are explicitly told she was raped, and considering it's an eroge, almost all girls (if not all) who are virgins bleed. I say the same about riding a horse, but anyway, all these loses meaning if she actually bled in the infamous scene.
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.
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Unread postby KratosIrving » October 30th, 2008, 5:08 pm

Yeah, that's why I said it's beside the point. Also, given her history to hide her sex from her kingdom, she could never have gotten into any true sexual situation. Therefore, it's only natural to say Saber was a virgin.
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Unread postby Zensunni » October 30th, 2008, 11:11 pm

What about previous masters? well, her previous one at least is very unlikely.
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Unread postby Mkilbride » October 30th, 2008, 11:22 pm

Her body is always returned to it's state until she is summoned again. For example, if another Holy Grail war were to take place, and somehow the Saber we know and love was summoned again(Hey, it's just a theoretical situation, I know storywise, it won't really happen)she'd have her Hymen in tact. Because her body was frozen at her point of death, and so that tells us she was a Virgin, since her final body in her time had it's Hymen in act, as is evident in her summoning, she'll have it if she was summoned again, so there isn't much way to know.

Man, I don't like using that word at all.
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Unread postby Wiiown » October 31st, 2008, 1:53 am

Mkilbride wrote:Her body is always returned to it's state until she is summoned again. For example, if another Holy Grail war were to take place, and somehow the Saber we know and love was summoned again(Hey, it's just a theoretical situation, I know storywise, it won't really happen)she'd have her Hymen in tact. Because her body was frozen at her point of death, and so that tells us she was a Virgin, since her final body in her time had it's Hymen in act, as is evident in her summoning, she'll have it if she was summoned again, so there isn't much way to know.

Man, I don't like using that word at all.


This is about to get weird but
if she was summoned at any time after the 5th War, does that mean she would not be a virgin? Back in her past she was frozen at that point in time but when her wish was fulfilled (she found the holy grail) does the version of her that slept with shirou go back to replace the Arturia frozen in time?

So the saber that was now unfrozen would no longer be a virgin right? If that is the case then that means for any subsequent summonings she would not be a virgin because the Saber that went back in time was not a virgin so her heroic spirit form would no doubt be the non-virgin saber right?

Fuck that hurt my head and it probably made no sense to any of you, I'm rambling for no reason.
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