Rin personality contradictions [massive Fate/UBW spoil]

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Unread postby Rikh » October 31st, 2008, 1:58 am

Wiiown wrote:
Mkilbride wrote:Her body is always returned to it's state until she is summoned again. For example, if another Holy Grail war were to take place, and somehow the Saber we know and love was summoned again(Hey, it's just a theoretical situation, I know storywise, it won't really happen)she'd have her Hymen in tact. Because her body was frozen at her point of death, and so that tells us she was a Virgin, since her final body in her time had it's Hymen in act, as is evident in her summoning, she'll have it if she was summoned again, so there isn't much way to know.

Man, I don't like using that word at all.


This is about to get weird but
if she was summoned at any time after the 5th War, does that mean she would not be a virgin? Back in her past she was frozen at that point in time but when her wish was fulfilled (she found the holy grail) does the version of her that slept with shirou go back to replace the Arturia frozen in time?

So the saber that was now unfrozen would no longer be a virgin right? If that is the case then that means for any subsequent summonings she would not be a virgin because the Saber that went back in time was not a virgin so her heroic spirit form would no doubt be the non-virgin saber right?

Fuck that hurt my head and it probably made no sense to any of you, I'm rambling for no reason.


ummm no not really

She is frozen in time, but she's basically a heroic spirit. She experiences and lives the grail wars unlike other servants who just obtain information on them. Her real body is back in time and dies, and her body in F/SN is a copy that can be destroyed and re-summoned infinitely until her contact with the grail is fulfilled. Her wish, if done will re-write the past thus causing king arthur(ia) to not be a legend

Anywho she is still a virgin in the past, and she will always be a virgin if summoned... EPIC WIN...
.
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Unread postby Wiiown » October 31st, 2008, 2:09 am

Rikh wrote:
ummm no not really

She is frozen in time, but she's basically a heroic spirit. She experiences and lives the grail wars unlike other servants who just obtain information on them. Her real body is back in time and dies, and her body in F/SN is a copy that can be destroyed and re-summoned infinitely until her contact with the grail is fulfilled. Her wish, if done will re-write the past thus causing king arthur(ia) to not be a legend

Anywho she is still a virgin in the past, and she will always be a virgin if summoned... EPIC WIN...
.


Ah I see now.....sort of. I suppose I just made the improper assumption that
if she had the changes of her living the grail wars engraved on her mind that whatever copy succeeded in finding the holy grail would simply replace the Arturia frozen in time (and subsequently die) and become the Heroic spirit King Arthur. The argument from my point of view I will just call a baseless assumption and move on then. And I dunno, I imagine the whole virgin each time you summoned her would be quite inconvenient for poor Saber.
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Unread postby Raitei » October 31st, 2008, 2:13 am

Wiiown wrote:
Rikh wrote:
ummm no not really

She is frozen in time, but she's basically a heroic spirit. She experiences and lives the grail wars unlike other servants who just obtain information on them. Her real body is back in time and dies, and her body in F/SN is a copy that can be destroyed and re-summoned infinitely until her contact with the grail is fulfilled. Her wish, if done will re-write the past thus causing king arthur(ia) to not be a legend

Anywho she is still a virgin in the past, and she will always be a virgin if summoned... EPIC WIN...
.


Ah I see now.....sort of. I suppose I just made the improper assumption that
if she had the changes of her living the grail wars engraved on her mind that whatever copy succeeded in finding the holy grail would simply replace the Arturia frozen in time (and subsequently die) and become the Heroic spirit King Arthur. The argument from my point of view I will just call a baseless assumption and move on then. And I dunno, I imagine the whole virgin each time you summoned her would be quite inconvenient for poor Saber.
the reason why saber is different from other heroic spirit is that
she's still alive. unlike other heroic spirits, she cannot go to spirit form, and her body will not be reset back prior to the condition before she was summoned. so no "each time she's summoned, she's back into virgin".
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
Fate/world providence
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Unread postby Wiiown » October 31st, 2008, 2:16 am

Raitei wrote: the reason why saber is different from other heroic spirit is that
she's still alive. unlike other heroic spirits, she cannot go to spirit form, and her body will not be reset back prior to the condition before she was summoned. so no "each time she's summoned, she's back into virgin".


So in a strange backwards way I was correct?....I can't even tell, time travel sucks ass.
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Unread postby Raitei » October 31st, 2008, 2:40 am

Wiiown wrote:
Raitei wrote: the reason why saber is different from other heroic spirit is that
she's still alive. unlike other heroic spirits, she cannot go to spirit form, and her body will not be reset back prior to the condition before she was summoned. so no "each time she's summoned, she's back into virgin".


So in a strange backwards way I was correct?....I can't even tell, time travel sucks ass.
to put it simple,
her "body" and soul is cycled (read = thrown over here and there) through time, without stop for recycle. (so like being thrown into an infinite time travel, until she forfeits the wish for holy grail) that's that. the main reason why she has vivid memory of what happened in the previous war,
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
Fate/world providence
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Unread postby Serpentarius » October 31st, 2008, 2:58 am

When Saber destroyed the Holy Grail of her own will, it nullified her contract with the World, so the point is moot. She will not be summoned anymore.
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Unread postby Wiiown » October 31st, 2008, 2:58 am

Raitei wrote:
Wiiown wrote:
Raitei wrote: the reason why saber is different from other heroic spirit is that
she's still alive. unlike other heroic spirits, she cannot go to spirit form, and her body will not be reset back prior to the condition before she was summoned. so no "each time she's summoned, she's back into virgin".


So in a strange backwards way I was correct?....I can't even tell, time travel sucks ass.
to put it simple,
her "body" and soul is cycled (read = thrown over here and there) through time, without stop for recycle. (so like being thrown into an infinite time travel, until she forfeits the wish for holy grail) that's that. the main reason why she has vivid memory of what happened in the previous war,


Ah, I see now that clears it up. My explanation was far longer winded (and unnecessarily complicated) but was pretty close to what you said.
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Unread postby Balcerzak » October 31st, 2008, 10:11 am

abscess wrote:
Utsuho wrote:Not all women bleed their first time, though. Just sayin'. :B

Yeah, but every girl in Tsukihime bleeds, except Kohaku who we are explicitly told she was raped, and considering it's an eroge, almost all girls (if not all) who are virgins bleed. I say the same about riding a horse, but anyway, all these loses meaning if she actually bled in the infamous scene.

About Tsukihime: No.
Ciel does not bleed. In fact, if memory serves correctly in one of the Plus+Disc side stories she and Kohaku are joking around, and making comments about Shiki's excessive stamina in the sexual department, and the other heroines are all like ":oops: I had nothing to compare it too."


That being said, yes, it's eroge, and it's designed to cater to the expectations of the audience it's written for. Therefore invariably every virgin will bleed, the woman and man will both always reach orgasm, often climaxing at the same time in fact, and many other cliches and fantasies will be fulfilled. This is by design and certainly does not mimic real life, where some virgins do not bleed, where the female orgasm is far from guaranteed, etc., etc. So I think we're pretty much in agreement there.

Also yes, I'm pretty positive Saber did bleed in the scene with the "red flower and the white flower".
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Unread postby Mkilbride » October 31st, 2008, 4:06 pm

If every sexual encounter ended in an Orgasm for both parties, then there would be no war. :P
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Unread postby Raitei » October 31st, 2008, 4:24 pm

Mkilbride wrote:If every sexual encounter ended in an Orgasm for both parties, then there would be no war. :P
what do you mean by that? >.>
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
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Unread postby Atriel » October 31st, 2008, 7:13 pm

Sex wars?
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