Oh, Whats that?

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Oh, Whats that?

Unread postby Grelline » September 27th, 2008, 11:22 pm

I know im being a bit vague but its always bothered me. In some of the screens of the fire from the past, you see a tower, you also see this tower if you choose the bad option at the end of the UBW arc, its like the last one (it involves chains).

Does this get explained in Heavens Feel or something?
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Unread postby Divine » September 27th, 2008, 11:24 pm

It's the holy grail. You see it in it's entirety at the end of the Fate scenario. I can't say anything about HF.
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Unread postby Grelline » September 27th, 2008, 11:39 pm

look far too friggin huge to be that, it looked like it was huge in the firey flashbacks, although that does kinda make sense
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Unread postby Kansho » September 27th, 2008, 11:57 pm

You will get to see "that" in Heaven's Feel, yeah.

It's the Grail near it's completion. You only get to see at this degree in HF.
見せかけの自分はそっと捨ててただありのままで
misekake no jibun ha sotto sutete tada ari no mama de -
Throw away the "fake me" quietly and just be myself.
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Unread postby sozuke » September 28th, 2008, 2:24 am

the holy grail what a creepy thing
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Unread postby nanaya_shinya » September 28th, 2008, 9:46 am

One would expect the Holy Grail to look...like a grail. In Nasuverse, the Holy Grail in Fuyuki City is FAR from a grail. It looks more like an alien structure to me :lol:
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Unread postby Katakara » September 28th, 2008, 9:55 am

For some reason i always imagined the holy grail as some kind of a weapon... the word grail always makes me think of a pitchfork... so... a holy pitchfork?... maybe i should keep my opinions to myself...

in any case, if the grail looks like an alien structure, could you go into it?

well, you probably could, considering what happened in UBW... but then you'd get engulfed with evil... but i wonder how the grail is decorated... does debbie travis design pure evil? ah well...


.... I'm bored, aren't it?
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Unread postby Raitei » September 28th, 2008, 10:02 am

nanaya_shinya wrote:One would expect the Holy Grail to look...like a grail. In Nasuverse, the Holy Grail in Fuyuki City is FAR from a grail. It looks more like an alien structure to me :lol:
in the anime, if you see the scene in which kotomine describes the grail, it really looks like a grail.
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Unread postby nanaya_shinya » September 28th, 2008, 10:04 am

Raitei wrote:
in the anime, if you see the scene in which kotomine describes the grail, it really looks like a grail.

That is...
until you see "The Grail" with Illya at the last episode of the anime
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Unread postby Kansho » September 28th, 2008, 11:41 am

Original container was a physical Grail. Normally is made of gold/bronze and uses the flesh of a magus, but in HF5 they are using Ilya's heart.
見せかけの自分はそっと捨ててただありのままで
misekake no jibun ha sotto sutete tada ari no mama de -
Throw away the "fake me" quietly and just be myself.
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Unread postby Tash » September 28th, 2008, 7:50 pm

Kansho wrote:
Original container was a physical Grail. Normally is made of gold/bronze and uses the flesh of a magus, but in HF5 they are using Ilya's heart.

Then it should be called the "Holy Heart".
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Unread postby Kid-Wolf » September 29th, 2008, 2:52 pm

Tash wrote:
Kansho wrote:
Original container was a physical Grail. Normally is made of gold/bronze and uses the flesh of a magus, but in HF5 they are using Ilya's heart.

Then it should be called the "Holy Heart".


If the did that it wouldn't make any sense. Besides the Grail is a "vessel" that is to give the grail it's said form.
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Unread postby Keeper of Gil's Vault » September 30th, 2008, 4:16 am

I haven't read Heaven's Feel, but I thought the true grail is actually Justica von Einzbern. The alien craft thing is a corrupted version of the grail, which Angra Mainyu is using as a uterus to grow in. If Kotomine succeeded, the evil entity would be born. Do we even know what the Third Magic is SUPPOSED to look like?
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Unread postby Brizzle » October 3rd, 2008, 1:55 am

That thing is a container. It is the collection of the energy collected from the souls of the Servants, the force that will punch a hole into the source and open the gate to the Third Magic. It looks that way because it has been corrupted by Avenger. It is originally colorless prana, but it is blackened by the hatred and evil of Angra Mainyu. It is only seen in its complete form at the end of the Heaven's Feel route and at then end of the previous War.

It is the Lesser Grail, the vessel. The Greater Grail is the control core if you will, the heart of Justicia that controls the ritual, summons the Servants and selects the Masters.
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Unread postby Keeper of Gil's Vault » October 4th, 2008, 7:49 am

Ya, Fuyuki explains it pretty well. However, it is strange that all the major parties in Nasuverse (namely the Church and Mage Association) are not approaching the Einzberns to gain access to their true magic, Heaven's Feel. Even though the true magic was lost, as we have seen in Fate, the possibility of regaining it is high. The true magics are considered true miracles even by magus standard, yet the Einzberns are left well alone. Is House Einzbern that powerful? Seems to me that they are merely a fallen house of magi that was once prominent. They had to resort to seeking help from the Matous and Tosakas to salvage their lost true magic.
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Unread postby Kansho » October 4th, 2008, 9:40 am

Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:
Ya, Fuyuki explains it pretty well. However, it is strange that all the major parties in Nasuverse (namely the Church and Mage Association) are not approaching the Einzberns to gain access to their true magic, Heaven's Feel. Even though the true magic was lost, as we have seen in Fate, the possibility of regaining it is high. The true magics are considered true miracles even by magus standard, yet the Einzberns are left well alone. Is House Einzbern that powerful? Seems to me that they are merely a fallen house of magi that was once prominent. They had to resort to seeking help from the Matous and Tosakas to salvage their lost true magic.
Heaven's Feel is a mystery even within the Association. The Einzberns know how to keep secrets. Outside the three families, nobody really knows what the Heaven's Feel is supposed to be.

In Fate/stay night, even Rin didn't know nothing about it. She was totally shocked when Ilya told her that the goal is the Third.
見せかけの自分はそっと捨ててただありのままで
misekake no jibun ha sotto sutete tada ari no mama de -
Throw away the "fake me" quietly and just be myself.
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Unread postby gexer64 » October 4th, 2008, 10:38 pm

If the grail if corrupted do to a servant then the solution should be obvious. In the next HF let's send in servant so holy that it would remove all the worlds evil. And since there is a "evil" holy grail, shouldn't there be a polar opposite?
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Unread postby Kansho » October 4th, 2008, 11:00 pm

gexer64 wrote:
If the grail if corrupted do to a servant then the solution should be obvious. In the next HF let's send in servant so holy that it would remove all the worlds evil. And since there is a "evil" holy grail, shouldn't there be a polar opposite?
Well, the grail was corrupted because "All this world evil" is the "greatest human wish"... and when a thousands years wish clash with a wish-granting machine... The Grail proccesed his soul as a wish and WHAM!.

I don't think that there is a guy who carry "All this World Goodness"... sounds stupid. In the first place, Abe-san was sacrificed as an scapegoat, a single entity with the burden of all the evil of this world.
見せかけの自分はそっと捨ててただありのままで
misekake no jibun ha sotto sutete tada ari no mama de -
Throw away the "fake me" quietly and just be myself.
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Unread postby gexer64 » October 6th, 2008, 1:53 am

Kansho wrote:
gexer64 wrote:
If the grail if corrupted do to a servant then the solution should be obvious. In the next HF let's send in servant so holy that it would remove all the worlds evil. And since there is a "evil" holy grail, shouldn't there be a polar opposite?
Well, the grail was corrupted because "All this world evil" is the "greatest human wish"... and when a thousands years wish clash with a wish-granting machine... The Grail proccesed his soul as a wish and WHAM!.

I don't think that there is a guy who carry "All this World Goodness"... sounds stupid. In the first place, Abe-san was sacrificed as an scapegoat, a single entity with the burden of all the evil of this world.


Angra Mainyu was summoned because they wanted a god. If that's the case, then what's to say other gods and religious figures can't be summoned, which many would argue do contain "all the worlds goodness...". And furthermore if we look at assassin, imaginary heroes can be summoned as well. So basically such a person could exist.
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Unread postby Kansho » October 6th, 2008, 5:49 am

gexer64 wrote:
Angra Mainyu was summoned because they wanted a god. If that's the case, then what's to say other gods and religious figures can't be summoned, which many would argue do contain "all the worlds goodness...". And furthermore if we look at assassin, imaginary heroes can be summoned as well. So basically such a person could exist.
But gods/divine spirits can't be summoned. In Nasuverse, Anri is a exception among all the exceptions.

And even so, the "corrupted grail" stuff is something that only Kirei, Kiritsugu, Gilgamesh and Zouken known prior to the war.
見せかけの自分はそっと捨ててただありのままで
misekake no jibun ha sotto sutete tada ari no mama de -
Throw away the "fake me" quietly and just be myself.
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