Streamlined F/SN Music Replacement Tools Beta WIP

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Streamlined F/SN Music Replacement Tools Beta WIP

Unread postby Nintendo Maniac 64 » September 26th, 2008, 10:36 pm

THESE TOOLS ARE A WIP, so at times the instructions may be lacking in how to use some more recently discovered functions (like having a song start somewhere other than the beginning when it loops)

UPDATE: I've discovered that the LoopLength calculator may NOT always work. (though it seems to most of the time). My guess is that the sample amount in a song isn't the only (if not THE) determining factor for how much to subtract from the "non-looping LoopLength" in order to get looping to work. I AM looking into a solution for this...


--MAIN TOPIC--
I just need lots of people to basically replace some songs in F/SN and see if the songs will loop and if they loop correctly (AKA not chop off the end). So far I haven't had anyone test on Vista (or Win2K, heck even 98) so that'd be great if some of you people out there with those OSes could help out.

I've already made a ZIP and 7z archive with all the needed tool and even READMEs on how to use go about this process.

Since this IS a beta, you can request clarification as much as necessary, especially since for all I know I may have missed a step somewhere :P


--DOWNLOADS--
Both archives contain the EXACT SAME THINGS. I've just provided both since the 7z is smaller while the ZIP is more compatible.
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?m0mmzklzmdz - 7z (1.69 MB)
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?lzfuzemtjvo - ZIP (1.97 MB)


--BACKGROUND INFO--
I recently wanted to try to replace the music in F/SN not because I was tired of the music. It's because I lost my F/SN game save data (CGs, stats, etc.) when I got a BSoD while I had the game still running (I KNOW it was not F/SN's fault, it's my audio drivers + Audacity or something similar) but I still had all my save points. I'm part-way through UBW, so I'll have to go through Fate again to unlock most of that stuff again. But I thought it's be cool if I had a somewhat different experience going through Fate again by having different music.

This lead to finding a topic on here that gave some instructions, but they were not too exact on one thing - LoopLength value. I spent many hours figuring out how LoopLength worked, and I think I've got it close enough to work well with nearly all audio.

Problem is, I'm practically burned out with doing hours straight of trial & error, so I'm turning to you guys to help me out here since a group is much more productive than a single person can ever be.


--BEHIND THE SCENES AND WHAT I DID--
From what I gathered, the LoopLength in the .sli files is how many samples per seconds. I figured this out by finding a song that had a LoopStart as 0 (zero) and divided its LoopLength by the song length in seconds. I ended up with 44100.xxxxx (don't remember the decimals). I recognized that number as the sample-rate the songs in F/SN use, so I instantly knew the connection. But I then discovered that using exactly the samples per second value made the song not loop. It seems that the LoopLength must be a bit before the actual end of the song in order to loop, otherwise it just plays once then stops. I then just did trial & error for 4 songs to get the maximum LoopLength value that each song would loop at - any higher would result in no looping. Then for "safety" and insurance, I would minus 5000 from the highest working LoopLength. I then made a quadratic equation using 3 of the song values that would turn the samples per second into an accurate working LoopLength (this is what I meant by "safety, small inaccuracies can occur with this equation, and the subtracted 5000 gives room for error).
Last edited by Nintendo Maniac 64 on October 11th, 2008, 12:21 am, edited 11 times in total.
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Unread postby Kansho » September 26th, 2008, 10:53 pm

I think that a change in the game music is a huge mistake. Some scenes are pretty much perfect because the music, if you change it, you will ruin it.

But... beh, do as you want.
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Unread postby Nintendo Maniac 64 » September 26th, 2008, 11:44 pm

Hey, I understand that. I even have some of the music saved on my portable media player and all the music in my "music archive" on my hard drive.

Really though, I love to do things that are "unintended" like modding and hacking (not like attacking PCs hacking) and videogame homebrew. Yes I understand that the music is partially why F/SN is the way it is, but you also gotta understand I played through Fate already like a month ago >_> I have no desire to do it again just yet, but I want to regain my lost CGs still - so I thought changing the music would be mix it up a bit.

Besides, it's not like I'm replacing Ever-present Feeling with ACDC, I'm trying quite hard to use songs of similar mood. In fact when I'm done I'd probably share my replacement song pack on here, though I have no idea how that be possible since that's nearly pirating music. :/
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Unread postby Shikiller » September 27th, 2008, 12:18 am

You could just ask for save files if you don't want to re- read Fate...
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Unread postby Nintendo Maniac 64 » September 27th, 2008, 1:01 am

But I don't want to have CGs that I didn't have before. Since I saved at every choice and even said which choice I chose, I'll be able to re-create my path nearly perfectly (except for mistakes, but those aren't a big deal since I remember most of them >_>;)

Besides, I think going through Fate with different music might be fun :P (especially with the music I'm choosing... which I'm not going to reveal until I finish it and share it somehow)

Anyway, this is getting off-topic guys...
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Re: Streamlined F/SN Music Replacement Tools BETA - NEED TES

Unread postby aldeayeah » September 28th, 2008, 3:01 pm

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:--MAIN TOPIC--
I just need lots of people to basically replace some songs in F/SN and see if the songs will loop and if they loop correctly (AKA not chop off the end)

I've already made a ZIP and 7z archive with all the needed tool and even READMEs on how to use go about this process.

Since this IS a beta, you can request clarification as much as necessary, especially since for all I know I may have missed a step somewhere

Count me in. The first thing I did when I played Tsukihime was changing the whole soundtrack.

I'll give it a try today or tomorrow.
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Unread postby Nintendo Maniac 64 » September 28th, 2008, 7:41 pm

Alright, at least someone is supportive of me! :D I guess another reason why I did this was because I was just looking for more options and "openness" if you will. (I guess I've been spoiled by open-source software <_<; )
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Unread postby aldeayeah » September 29th, 2008, 11:57 am

--BEHIND THE SCENES AND WHAT I DID--
From what I gathered, the LoopLength in the .sli files is how many samples per seconds. I figured this out by finding a song that had a LoopStart as 0 (zero) and divided its LoopLength by the song length in seconds. I ended up with 44100.xxxxx (don't remember the decimals). I recognized that number as the sample-rate the songs in F/SN use, so I instantly knew the connection. But I then discovered that using exactly the samples per second value made the song not loop. It seems that the LoopLength must be a bit before the actual end of the song in order to loop, otherwise it just plays once then stops. I then just did trial & error for 4 songs to get the maximum LoopLength value that each song would loop at - any higher would result in no looping. Then for "safety" and insurance, I would minus 5000 from the highest working LoopLength. I then made a quadratic equation using 3 of the song values that would turn the samples per second into an accurate working LoopLength (this is what I meant by "safety, small inaccuracies can occur with this equation, and the subtracted 5000 gives room for error).

Without any extra calculations, by making a selection in Audacity, you can see the exact sample number. That makes things far easier, you know xD

---

It works fine. Great job *thumbs up*

I used oggdropXPd for the compression and Audacity to look up the sample numbers.

When I have spare time, I'm going to try to create an actual seamless loop.

In a nutshell:
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Unread postby Nintendo Maniac 64 » September 29th, 2008, 5:24 pm

I realize that NOW, but when trying to figure out stuff I didn't. Besides, then you'd be REQUIRED to use Audacity, which I'm not going to force onto people since you can get the length and samplerate from most media players. I might include "shortcut instructions" for getting the LoopLength for those that DO have Audacity, though it's not much shorter.

And also, for simplicity's sake, I didn't think anyone would want to have a song NOT start at the beginning - and if they did they'd just edit it in Audacity or something.

Oh and that's quite some dynamic range compression in that song of yours *hisses* (as an Audiophile I cannot condone the loudness war)

EDIT: I was pretty sure of this, but I just confirmed it - as soon as you throw in the LoopStart as something other than zero, things get weird. If I follow what you suggest is the LoopStart (and LoopLength when the LoopStart isn't zero), the song doesn't even play, which by your thinking it still should. I didn't put it through the calculator, but that's to enable looping - a song would normally still play even without it (though only once)

Needless to say I think it's simple enough to stick with what works :P (I didn't include it in the "behind the scenes/what I did, but I did mess around with the LoopStart and couldn't really figure out what's up with it, so I just kept it at zero for simplicity since it actually worked as planned)
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Unread postby aldeayeah » September 29th, 2008, 7:29 pm

Fortunately, that's not true. Looping at non-zero offset works fine for me.

And also, for simplicity's sake, I didn't think anyone would want to have a song NOT start at the beginning - and if they did they'd just edit it in Audacity or something.

The song plays from the beginning until (LoopStart + LoopLength), and then it loops back to LoopStart, ad infinitum, as it's supposed to be. That way, you can have an intro part that's outside of the loop. You can't reproduce that so easily.

I also reverse checked one of the songs that was in the original bgm.xp3 with the same method and it was a perfect match.

Are you sure you're inputting the right LoopStart and LoopLength?

Note that in that capture, for the LoopLength, in addition of changing the meter to "samples", I have checked the "Length" radio button instead of the default "End".

If anyone else is trying this at home, one thing: don't check the songs in the Music menu, because it ignores loops. Check them in-game.
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Unread postby ayadew » September 29th, 2008, 7:45 pm

I actually did this once.
Made a thread about it somewhere...
I can tell you, it's not worth the effort. So, sorry, I won't help you since I don't want to repeat futility.
To get the right feeling, you'd have to cut each song so it can loop correctly. Else you will really end up with awkward places.
For the places I want custom songs I'll simply start winamp. (such as, Kenji Kawai's "Emiya" and "Roar of the Universe").
But I can agree with wanting to change the music, some tunes are just... fail.
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Unread postby Nintendo Maniac 64 » September 29th, 2008, 8:25 pm

ayadew wrote:I actually did this once.
Made a thread about it somewhere...
I can tell you, it's not worth the effort. So, sorry, I won't help you since I don't want to repeat futility.
To get the right feeling, you'd have to cut each song so it can loop correctly. Else you will really end up with awkward places.
For the places I want custom songs I'll simply start winamp. (such as, Kenji Kawai's "Emiya" and "Roar of the Universe").
But I can agree with wanting to change the music, some tunes are just... fail.


Not worth it? Unless you're referring to aldeayeah and his LoopStart theory, I've had absolutely no problems thus far... have you even TRIED out what I've done? (using the calculator and all?) I know you say it's futile, but I can't leave something that so far hasn't been solved yet.

EDIT: Heck, even aldeayeah was right about the LoopStart, so then I give you this:
Image


aldeayeah, I think I did try that once and it still didn't work, but I'll retest some and report back.

EDIT: HOLY CRAP IT WORKED XD My guess is that I didn't subtract the LoopStart from the LoopLength when I tested it originally - not to mention I hadn't even come up with the quadratic equation yet for proper LoopLength looping. I guess I'll add that to the instructions at some point under an "advanced" category.

Well, it looks like we may have "cracked" how F/SN plays its music, unless there's something we're missing that ayadew knows and isn't telling us...
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Unread postby ayadew » September 30th, 2008, 10:41 am

There is no great mystery to this, it's simly not worth the effort if you wish it to sound reasonably good.
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Unread postby Nintendo Maniac 64 » September 30th, 2008, 5:52 pm

....? what great effort? Not sound good? I don't know about you, but these few steps aren't exactly what I'd call a "great effort" and the music plays back perfectly fine. Heck, if I had the programming skills, I'd write an app that would calculate all the LoopStarts and LoopLengths automatically (though with an option for having the LoopStart start however many seconds you want it)

I don't know about you, but just even allowing the option and ability of something when before there either wasn't or it was flawed is a reason enough to go through this so-called "great effort"

Next thing I know you're going to tell me to drown in my ideals and die. >_>
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Unread postby gexer64 » October 6th, 2008, 2:01 am

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:
Besides, it's not like I'm replacing Ever-present Feeling with ACDC,


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Unread postby Nintendo Maniac 64 » October 6th, 2008, 5:46 am

hey, if you're that desperate, go right ahead and do it yourself :P That's the whole point of this - to provide an easy and working way to replace the music in F/SN.
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Unread postby gexer64 » October 7th, 2008, 3:41 am

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:hey, if you're that desperate, go right ahead and do it yourself :P That's the whole point of this - to provide an easy and working way to replace the music in F/SN.


It was a joke.... But yeah good luck with this project.
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Unread postby Nintendo Maniac 64 » October 7th, 2008, 3:45 am

well, have you tested what's currently there? So far me and aldeayeah haven't had any issues, but that's only 2 people. We're both running XP, and it'd be great if someone with Vista could give it a whirl.
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Unread postby gexer64 » October 7th, 2008, 4:53 am

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:well, have you tested what's currently there? So far me and aldeayeah haven't had any issues, but that's only 2 people. We're both running XP, and it'd be great if someone with Vista could give it a whirl.


I gotz vista.... And sure I'll test it for you.
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Unread postby Nintendo Maniac 64 » October 11th, 2008, 12:14 am

Oh dear, I may have suddenly discovered what ayadew meant by a "great effort". It seems that my current quadratic equation in the LoopLength Calculator doesn't work 100% of the time... like for a 1 minute song @ 44100KHz. I then tried a 5min and 40sec song @ 8000KHz (had the same amount of samples) and it worked, though the end was chopped by maybe about a second.

What I'm currently thinking is that maybe the amount to minus to enable looping isn't determined solely my the sample amount... heck maybe it's not determined by the samples at ALL. I SHALL INVESTIGATE! (who cares if it's a "great effort" :P Since I can't program, I never really got to "make" solutions to things, so this is something I'm trying really hard at since it doesn't require any programming... at least not yet anyway...)
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