Original vs Fake (Spoilers)

It's alright, we feel your pain. Noone wants to admit being gar for Berserker.

Moderator: Staffers

Unread postby Rikh » October 16th, 2008, 3:41 am

Raitei wrote:
Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:@gexer64,
There is no doubt that the memory of the weapon is involved, but we were trying to discuss where is Shirou's strenght coming from. You can learn a new technique, but strength cannot really be learned. The technique may involve swinging at super-sonic speed, but not everyone's body can endure that.
shirou also copied berserker's strength of arm, you see.
Emiya Shirou wrote:Focus.
Perceive his great sword to perfection.
Open your left hand and grip the imagined handle.
Its astronomical weight.
Emiya Shirou can not handle that great sword.
But....definate replication of the monstrous strength of the enemy is possible with this left arm.

taken from that particular scene. it definitely shows strength COULD be traced.



well looks like were going to have more archer vs "blank" fictional battles now =P

well archers traceryness is pretty much on the level of h4x..
User avatar
Rikh
DESU DESU!
 
Posts: 649
Joined: July 19th, 2008, 6:07 pm
Location: Unlimited Taiga Works

Unread postby gexer64 » October 16th, 2008, 4:07 am

Rikh wrote:
Raitei wrote:
Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:@gexer64,
There is no doubt that the memory of the weapon is involved, but we were trying to discuss where is Shirou's strenght coming from. You can learn a new technique, but strength cannot really be learned. The technique may involve swinging at super-sonic speed, but not everyone's body can endure that.
shirou also copied berserker's strength of arm, you see.
Emiya Shirou wrote:Focus.
Perceive his great sword to perfection.
Open your left hand and grip the imagined handle.
Its astronomical weight.
Emiya Shirou can not handle that great sword.
But....definate replication of the monstrous strength of the enemy is possible with this left arm.

taken from that particular scene. it definitely shows strength COULD be traced.



well looks like were going to have more archer vs "blank" fictional battles now =P

well archers traceryness is pretty much on the level of h4x..


Raitei, even if you are right, sometimes it's good to not post. You my good sir have unleashed pandora's box

Ex: Archer could totally beat superman, he can trace his ability to fly, super strength, and HEAT VISION.

Does this make Archer the new Macgyver?
In a single answer lies a thousand questions.
User avatar
gexer64
Crack Desu!
 
Posts: 342
Joined: August 9th, 2008, 5:09 pm

Unread postby Raitei » October 16th, 2008, 5:01 am

gexer64 wrote:Raitei, even if you are right, sometimes it's good to not post. You my good sir have unleashed pandora's box
spoiler tags are there for some reason, you know.

gexer64 wrote:Ex: Archer could totally beat superman, he can trace his ability to fly, super strength, and HEAT VISION.

Does this make Archer the new Macgyver?
no, unless he can trace something like superman's underwear, which he definitely can't. :P
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
Fate/world providence
User avatar
Raitei
OMG! WTF WHO SET THIS TITLE! LULZ
 
Posts: 2277
Joined: August 7th, 2007, 12:26 pm
Location: Distant wilderness

Unread postby Rikh » October 16th, 2008, 8:18 am

Raitei wrote:
gexer64 wrote:Ex: Archer could totally beat superman, he can trace his ability to fly, super strength, and HEAT VISION.

Does this make Archer the new Macgyver?
no, unless he can trace something like superman's underwear, which he definitely can't. :P


thank god....
if he actually managed to trace supermans underwear, the whole city would be destroyed in a matter of seconds... in fact that underwear probably fits into the 5th, 3rd, and 2nd magics.... its just that strong




but... if superman was known to wield a sword as big as a mountain... archer could trace that and copy supermans abilities =P
but nobody should get into that...
User avatar
Rikh
DESU DESU!
 
Posts: 649
Joined: July 19th, 2008, 6:07 pm
Location: Unlimited Taiga Works

Unread postby gexer64 » October 16th, 2008, 2:52 pm

If you could trace superman's underwear, would you wear it? (It's never been washed)
In a single answer lies a thousand questions.
User avatar
gexer64
Crack Desu!
 
Posts: 342
Joined: August 9th, 2008, 5:09 pm

Unread postby Rikh » October 16th, 2008, 8:15 pm

uhh ya
User avatar
Rikh
DESU DESU!
 
Posts: 649
Joined: July 19th, 2008, 6:07 pm
Location: Unlimited Taiga Works

Unread postby Inverted » October 16th, 2008, 9:35 pm

He wears it outside his pants anyway .
User avatar
Inverted
Crack Desu!
 
Posts: 263
Joined: February 2nd, 2008, 7:25 pm

Unread postby Hawkeye7513 » October 17th, 2008, 9:54 pm

Superman's unwashed underwear? **shakes head**

This conversation has gotten way off track, Let me hijack this conversation back to the realm of Fate/Stay Night by mentioning an unmentioned faker: Counter Counter Guardian Archer-ko. From the doujinshi-s Sword Dancers and Sword Dancers 2, CCG Archer-ko is the fake, yet almost cannon, female version of our original CG Archer. (And with that wordy sentence, Archer-ko is on topic)


As I am going to go into spoilers, the english scanlation of the comedy Sword Dancers, and the first three chapters of the drama Sword Dancers 2 can be found at Gaku Gaku Animal Land, at almost the bottom of the linked page:



While I'm At it, here's a MAD of Sword Dancers 2. Be warned, it has a few spoilers in it.
It may have spoilers (especialy the Japanese text which I can't understand) but all in all, I think it's a good introduction to Archer-ko.



So here's thought/question, with very minor Archer-ko spoilers, to start things off.
As both Archer and Archer-ko are masters of the same pair of blades Kanshou & Bakuya, when say Archer projects said pair of blades, can he gain Archer-ko's abilities, like her magic, and visa versa?


Edit: I crossed out and changed the warning of spoilers for the mad, because after looking at it again (and again) most of the spoilers I thought were there were merely vaguely implied.

Edit2: I realized I didn't post an interesting summary of Sword Dancers 2. I know I'm not good at these, but here goes:
Sword Dancers 2 takes place after Shiro has died and become the Counter Guardian (Archer), and the only one who stands up to him, to protect the innocent, is the Counter Counter Guardian (Archer-ko). In the midst of their struggle for one life and the world, their past is slowly revealed.

Edit3: linked Paged removed, violated Wares rule
User avatar
Hawkeye7513
Posting more than n00bs
 
Posts: 25
Joined: April 12th, 2007, 4:21 am
Location: California

Unread postby Belzera » October 18th, 2008, 8:01 pm

No Archer could not gain Archerko's Abilities nor vice-versa since the blades are not theirs, they are weapons that Archer liked and took on as his own, probably the same with Archerko


Who is Archer-ko

me have idea it is Ilya
Belzera
Addict
 
Posts: 110
Joined: August 2nd, 2008, 9:42 pm

Unread postby ArchertheRed » October 19th, 2008, 9:56 am

Do you think it is possible for Archer and Shirou to create a new limb? For example, if Archer loses an arm, he could treat the arm as a weapon and he already knows the history and properties of the arm. So he might be able to recreate his arm. And maybe the reason why Shirou needed Archer's arm in HF was because he didn't have the skills to project an arm. I am aware that Shirou and Archer's projection ability is a byproduct of UBW, but Archer was able to recreate other weapons other than swords. So he might be able to create a new limb (or at least a robot arm). And can Shirou or Archer also copy the intelligence of another person?
ArchertheRed
Posting more than n00bs
 
Posts: 21
Joined: October 18th, 2008, 7:25 pm

Unread postby Raitei » October 19th, 2008, 10:32 am

ArchertheRed wrote:Do you think it is possible for Archer and Shirou to create a new limb? For example, if Archer loses an arm, he could treat the arm as a weapon and he already knows the history and properties of the arm. So he might be able to recreate his arm. And maybe the reason why Shirou needed Archer's arm in HF was because he didn't have the skills to project an arm. I am aware that Shirou and Archer's projection ability is a byproduct of UBW, but Archer was able to recreate other weapons other than swords. So he might be able to create a new limb (or at least a robot arm). And can Shirou or Archer also copy the intelligence of another person?
shirou / archer cannot project human arms. in fact, he cannot project things other than bladed weaponry. even if he does, it will be nothing but hollow imitation. empty on the inside. just like when he traced a soccer ball.

and besides sword, archer cannot really project things other than rho aias. who told you that he can project everything? put it like this : even a robotic arm is much, MUCH more complicated than swords. reinforcing it is still possible, but projecting it? undergoing all the blueprints, lifetimes, imaging; his brain and circuits will explode.
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
Fate/world providence
User avatar
Raitei
OMG! WTF WHO SET THIS TITLE! LULZ
 
Posts: 2277
Joined: August 7th, 2007, 12:26 pm
Location: Distant wilderness

Unread postby ArchertheRed » October 19th, 2008, 11:02 am

Raitei wrote:
ArchertheRed wrote:Do you think it is possible for Archer and Shirou to create a new limb? For example, if Archer loses an arm, he could treat the arm as a weapon and he already knows the history and properties of the arm. So he might be able to recreate his arm. And maybe the reason why Shirou needed Archer's arm in HF was because he didn't have the skills to project an arm. I am aware that Shirou and Archer's projection ability is a byproduct of UBW, but Archer was able to recreate other weapons other than swords. So he might be able to create a new limb (or at least a robot arm). And can Shirou or Archer also copy the intelligence of another person?
shirou / archer cannot project human arms. in fact, he cannot project things other than bladed weaponry. even if he does, it will be nothing but hollow imitation. empty on the inside. just like when he traced a soccer ball.

and besides sword, archer cannot really project things other than rho aias. who told you that he can project everything? put it like this : even a robotic arm is much, MUCH more complicated than swords. reinforcing it is still possible, but projecting it? undergoing all the blueprints, lifetimes, imaging; his brain and circuits will explode.


Dude, the robot arm was just a joke and I never mentioned that Archer can project everything. Maybe the way I wrote was unclear but I was just asking a question because it seemed plausible that Archer or Shirou could project things other than swords and weapons. Since Archer was able to project Rho Aias and his Bow, I thought maybe he could project an arm. I'm sorry if I offended you with my questions.
ArchertheRed
Posting more than n00bs
 
Posts: 21
Joined: October 18th, 2008, 7:25 pm

Unread postby Keeper of Gil's Vault » October 20th, 2008, 5:05 am

Mmm, so what is the logic behind the tracing of the strength? I am guessing the axe remembers the strength that wielded it?
If that is the case, then Archer/Shirou may be the MOST versatile character in the Nasuverse, because they can actually temporarily modify their personal status through copying certain items (strength boost to A+ just by copying Berserker's axe).
rule breaker = mana boost
monohoshi zao = agility boost
User avatar
Keeper of Gil's Vault
DESU DESU!
 
Posts: 501
Joined: July 15th, 2007, 2:49 pm

Unread postby Rikh » October 20th, 2008, 6:35 am

ya but, the stronger the effect of an item, the more exploded their circuits are

Plus their copies might work well against enemies, but they cannot project them easily, nor do their weapons stay long after use

Shiro or archer are much better off finding a true NP they dont have to trace and just strengthen it when needed..... but that wont happen ;)

Anywho, great acts caused by h4xed traceryness pretty much kill the person doing them, so they are not too versatile
They are kinda like rider, a person who is weak with one good trump card
User avatar
Rikh
DESU DESU!
 
Posts: 649
Joined: July 19th, 2008, 6:07 pm
Location: Unlimited Taiga Works

Unread postby Xamdou » October 21st, 2008, 8:16 am

Raitei wrote:
ArchertheRed wrote:Do you think it is possible for Archer and Shirou to create a new limb? For example, if Archer loses an arm, he could treat the arm as a weapon and he already knows the history and properties of the arm. So he might be able to recreate his arm. And maybe the reason why Shirou needed Archer's arm in HF was because he didn't have the skills to project an arm. I am aware that Shirou and Archer's projection ability is a byproduct of UBW, but Archer was able to recreate other weapons other than swords. So he might be able to create a new limb (or at least a robot arm). And can Shirou or Archer also copy the intelligence of another person?
shirou / archer cannot project human arms. in fact, he cannot project things other than bladed weaponry. even if he does, it will be nothing but hollow imitation. empty on the inside. just like when he traced a soccer ball.

and besides sword, archer cannot really project things other than rho aias. who told you that he can project everything? put it like this : even a robotic arm is much, MUCH more complicated than swords. reinforcing it is still possible, but projecting it? undergoing all the blueprints, lifetimes, imaging; his brain and circuits will explode.
But i think he projected fishing rod at F/HA which is other then sword
User avatar
Xamdou
DESU DESU!
 
Posts: 584
Joined: October 19th, 2008, 7:38 am
Location: The Ever Distant WC

Unread postby Raitei » October 21st, 2008, 2:23 pm

Xamdou wrote:
But i think he projected fishing rod at F/HA which is other then sword
that's not concrete enough. the object is hollow / void in the inside, just like the soccer ball
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
Fate/world providence
User avatar
Raitei
OMG! WTF WHO SET THIS TITLE! LULZ
 
Posts: 2277
Joined: August 7th, 2007, 12:26 pm
Location: Distant wilderness

Unread postby Rikh » October 21st, 2008, 7:19 pm

Raitei wrote:
Xamdou wrote:
But i think he projected fishing rod at F/HA which is other then sword
that's not concrete enough. the object is hollow / void in the inside, just like the soccer ball

As long as it has a h4xed fish catching ability, it doesn't matter too much if its hollow inside ;)


Archer though i think has a pretty diverse projection rate. I bet he can project simple objects, just nowhere near the level of the original objects.He has shown being able to trace a high powered bow for example. Its just he cannot trace things near the possible level of his sword projection abilities

Although he is amazingly good at
Tracing soccer balls!!! :lol:
User avatar
Rikh
DESU DESU!
 
Posts: 649
Joined: July 19th, 2008, 6:07 pm
Location: Unlimited Taiga Works

Unread postby Raitei » October 21st, 2008, 10:58 pm

Rikh wrote:
Raitei wrote:
Xamdou wrote:
But i think he projected fishing rod at F/HA which is other then sword
that's not concrete enough. the object is hollow / void in the inside, just like the soccer ball

As long as it has a h4xed fish catching ability, it doesn't matter too much if its hollow inside ;)

doesn't matter. fishing rods are just... fishing rods. they don't have to have mechanisms inside, for all you need is just swing them here and there. but arm / robotic arm is different. blood / electricity flows, spines, jolts, etc, etc...

comparison : you can swing fishing rods with your arm; even when they break, you could just glue the pieces and they'll work again. on the contrary, you cannot swing your arm, for instance, when it's cut and glued back. :P
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
Fate/world providence
User avatar
Raitei
OMG! WTF WHO SET THIS TITLE! LULZ
 
Posts: 2277
Joined: August 7th, 2007, 12:26 pm
Location: Distant wilderness

Unread postby gexer64 » October 22nd, 2008, 2:15 am

Raitei wrote:
Rikh wrote:
Raitei wrote:[quote="Xamdou"]
But i think he projected fishing rod at F/HA which is other then sword
that's not concrete enough. the object is hollow / void in the inside, just like the soccer ball

As long as it has a h4xed fish catching ability, it doesn't matter too much if its hollow inside ;)

doesn't matter. fishing rods are just... fishing rods. they don't have to have mechanisms inside, for all you need is just swing them here and there. but arm / robotic arm is different. blood / electricity flows, spines, jolts, etc, etc...

comparison : you can swing fishing rods with your arm; even when they break, you could just glue the pieces and they'll work again. on the contrary, you cannot swing your arm, for instance, when it's cut and glued back. :P[/quote]

Unless you're SHIKI. But I don't think that counts.
In a single answer lies a thousand questions.
User avatar
gexer64
Crack Desu!
 
Posts: 342
Joined: August 9th, 2008, 5:09 pm

Unread postby Rikh » October 22nd, 2008, 7:14 am

gexer64 wrote:
Raitei wrote:
Rikh wrote:[quote="Raitei"][quote="Xamdou"]
But i think he projected fishing rod at F/HA which is other then sword
that's not concrete enough. the object is hollow / void in the inside, just like the soccer ball

As long as it has a h4xed fish catching ability, it doesn't matter too much if its hollow inside ;)

doesn't matter. fishing rods are just... fishing rods. they don't have to have mechanisms inside, for all you need is just swing them here and there. but arm / robotic arm is different. blood / electricity flows, spines, jolts, etc, etc...

comparison : you can swing fishing rods with your arm; even when they break, you could just glue the pieces and they'll work again. on the contrary, you cannot swing your arm, for instance, when it's cut and glued back. :P[/quote]

Unless you're SHIKI. But I don't think that counts.[/quote]
well....... Shiro
Happens to have experience with puppet bodies himself. i believe at the end of HF he obtains one. Or so BMW says at least...If he spend his whole life analyzing and studying the puppet body, he might be able to trace a weakened replacement part thats ridiculously simple in design XD


Or he just might get more results by tracing a sword into his torn off arm... It might hurt, but shiro is pretty good at taking pain
User avatar
Rikh
DESU DESU!
 
Posts: 649
Joined: July 19th, 2008, 6:07 pm
Location: Unlimited Taiga Works

PreviousNext

Return to Fate/stay night Chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 4 guests