*spoilers* rins servant....

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*spoilers* rins servant....

Unread postby clavat » August 14th, 2008, 10:40 pm

this thread has spoilers of UBW


i have just one big question

did rin summoned an archer servant when archer was shirou?

i mean if archer was still shirou he could not be archer..... so rin summoned a diferent kind of archer when archer was still alive?

because she tried to summon a saber but failed because of the pendant and since archer knows about saber, this means that she was summoned, but the only one who could summon her was shirou because of avalon right, or was it that saber will that made her be summoned?

did rin summoned an archer or a saber the first time ?
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Unread postby Kansho » August 14th, 2008, 10:54 pm

Theoretically, she summoned "another" Archer. At least that is the common consensus.
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Unread postby clavat » August 14th, 2008, 11:01 pm

so she summoned another archer?

i wonder what kind of things went different then
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Unread postby Sepheriel » August 15th, 2008, 12:30 am

She summoned Emiya as Archer because he came from the "future". Remember the heroes that are summoned are not bound by time.
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Unread postby Tash » August 15th, 2008, 12:34 am

The Nasuverse never really goes into any real detail on how alternate timelines/universes work, and even less detail about how the Holy Grail deals with alternate versions of the same character. Just imagine that it works however you want.
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Unread postby DarkRedSky » August 15th, 2008, 1:16 am

It's basically Tohsaka saves Emiya's ass by using the crystal to heal him (remember the prologue). At that point she had already summoned Archer, so the theory is that because she used the crystal/amulet to save Emiya, she created a link with the amulet and Archer (who is a Shirou from an alternate time/plane). And since the game incorporates magic, it doesn't matter whether or not she summoned Archer first and save Emiya later.

All in all magic destroys all logic, so just go with the plot.
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Unread postby Rikh » August 15th, 2008, 3:00 am

Well the necklace was the catalyst for Emiya since Shiro was saved by it. it makes a lot of sense honestly.
Although she spent a huge amount of time wasting her crystals and such to create a perfect ritual to summon Saber(which even totally materialized archer in another area...), she was incapable of summoning saber

the reason he was summoned as an archer was 1) Emiya rarely is considered a saber class as his normal stats are pretty low, his abilities to use a bow perfectly across incredibly long ranges also has an effect. His ability to trace a near infinite amount of swords, which can be used as projectiles is also a reasoning.

i believe mainly he was summoned as an archer because.... He originally summoned saber in the past, also during the war in the past, heroic spirit Emiya took the archer position, but never killed shirou. and became a heroic spirit later on in life. going back in time to the past, he had to be and archer due to the fact that a saber summoned by Shirou was already determined. Since saber can not become an archer class, and shriou needs to summon saber, he was forced as an archer to stop a time paradox...


does that make any sense? i wrote with confidence, only to realize how little it makes sense...
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Unread postby serialies » August 25th, 2008, 1:43 pm

Tash wrote:The Nasuverse never really goes into any real detail on how alternate timelines/universes work, and even less detail about how the Holy Grail deals with alternate versions of the same character. Just imagine that it works however you want.


well...i wouldn't exactly say that. Nasu has given some fairly hefty bits of information, so based on what he has written and said; you can kinda formulate a general idea on how it all grinds together, although it wouldn't be fair to say that "this is how it works", rather "this is probably how it works, based on X,Y and Z"
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Unread postby Riverl » August 25th, 2008, 2:25 pm

Rin is capable of summoning a Saber (she's an exceptional good Magus) if you mean that's not the case even without the necklace, not Arthuria but another Saber is not impossible. However the catalyst got her good, and she messed up the summoning time too, it was one hour away from her magical peak.

Well, there's a lot of possibility, since there's infinite parallel worlds. It's possible that the Archer summoned when Archer was Shirou is not Emiya
But it seem like Archer as Shirou did summon Saber, he regconized her after all
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Unread postby Rikh » August 26th, 2008, 12:14 am

Riverl wrote:Rin is capable of summoning a Saber (she's an exceptional good Magus) if you mean that's not the case even without the necklace, not Arthuria but another Saber is not impossible. However the catalyst got her good, and she messed up the summoning time too, it was one hour away from her magical peak.

Well, there's a lot of possibility, since there's infinite parallel worlds. It's possible that the Archer summoned when Archer was Shirou is not Emiya
But it seem like Archer as Shirou did summon Saber, he recognized her after all


lol... Heroic spirits are not bound by time.... What if time is not bound to them too
Like she Summons just plain Shirou (the shirou that 'would' become archer)
LOL that would be definitely funny, shes like " something crashed upstairs??"
*walks up stairs*
"Emiya-kun!???! WTF!!!!"
Shame Paradoxes/contradictions to reality would prevent that from happening, but it would be a nice occurrence...
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Unread postby Raitei » August 26th, 2008, 2:04 am

Rikh wrote:lol... Heroic spirits are not bound by time.... What if time is not bound to them too
Like she Summons just plain Shirou (the shirou that 'would' become archer)
LOL that would be definitely funny, shes like " something crashed upstairs??"
*walks up stairs*
"Emiya-kun!???! WTF!!!!"
Shame Paradoxes/contradictions to reality would prevent that from happening, but it would be a nice occurrence...
but shirou is not a heroic spirit. not yet. (in fact, he won't become one if he didn't forge a contract with the world.) that's why he can't be summoned.
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Unread postby Riverl » August 26th, 2008, 8:57 am

In Beastlair there's a gag fic like that, if you are interested
Shirou was summoned as Archer, while the normal Shirou's still at home
FYI, Archer was summoned as Saber in that fanfic, in her dress to boost :lol:
"Becareful, Lancer, its a trap"
"Who are you calling a TRAP??"

yeah, a sneak peek at it
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Unread postby Einherjar » August 26th, 2008, 3:49 pm

Riverl wrote:In Beastlair there's a gag fic like that, if you are interested
Shirou was summoned as Archer, while the normal Shirou's still at home
FYI, Archer was summoned as Saber in that fanfic, in her dress to boost :lol:
"Becareful, Lancer, its a trap"
"Who are you calling a TRAP??"

yeah, a sneak peek at it

Link?
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Unread postby Riverl » August 26th, 2008, 4:08 pm

http://nrvnqsr.proboards20.com/index.cg ... hread=2278
a work of Mereo Flere
Best thank to him/her :lol:
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Unread postby jikap » October 14th, 2008, 12:39 am

This is how I see it:
Rin drops her pendant after using it to save Shirou. Shirou pick it up and carries it with him at all times, even after dying and becoming a heroic spirit.
When Rin is trying to summon a Saber without a catalyst, the pendant that heroic spirit Shirou is carrying becomes a catalyst connecting him to Rin. His attributes makes him unfit for the Saber role so he gets summoned as an Archer instead. After Rin saves Shirou, the newly dubbed Archer gives the pendant that he carried throughout his life back to Rin, while Shirou wakes up to find the newly spent pendant that Rin used to save him...

Personally, I think the fact that the heroic spirit Shirou is the one providing the catalyst, coupled with the fact that Rin specifically tried to summon a Saber is what makes the summoning go haywire. I don't think Rin attempting the summoning an hour early would create that much chaos alone...
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Unread postby shirou210 » October 14th, 2008, 6:19 am

Riverl wrote:http://nrvnqsr.proboards20.com/index.cgi?board=fanfic&action=display&thread=2278
a work of Mereo Flere
Best thank to him/her :lol:


Nice work, I must say... :wink:
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Unread postby nanaya_shinya » October 14th, 2008, 6:42 am

Another contributing factor for Shirou's summoning as an Archer class servant is his involvement in their school's Archery club. I kinda forgot why he quit the club though...
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Unread postby AvatarofRage » October 14th, 2008, 8:15 am

Well I remember one of the club members mentioned a part of the reason he quit was because Archery was pointless to him as a pasttime
She said that the point of archery was to reach a zen-like state in which the mind is without turmoil or conflict, and becomes one with the world etc, and that Shirou already seemed to exist in such a state, reflected in his archery
"I only remember you missing once. Everyone was surprised, and expected you to make a big deal out of it, but you didn't. You just picked your next arrow and fired another shot"
"Why would I make a big deal out of it? I missed because I wanted to miss"

So basically Shirou's an archery prodigy, partially in thanks to his messed mindset and poor sense of self.
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Unread postby nanaya_shinya » October 14th, 2008, 8:31 am

AvatarofRage wrote:So basically Shirou's an archery prodigy, partially in thanks to his messed mindset and poor sense of self.


That's why he got summoned in the Archer Class, combining his archery skills with np projection gives Shirou(soon to be Archer) the best quality of "arrows" to use, making him deadly.
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Unread postby borkborkbork » October 14th, 2008, 11:08 am

There's a line I think in Fate where Archer is talking to Shirou. Something like:

"There is only one thing in common to my archery and yours - and that is the follow up stage". Someone else can provide the actual line, but I'm fairly sure it went something like that. "my archery" refers to tracing. "yours" refers to using a bow and arrow."

Remember that Shirou normally performed Tracing in the same 8 steps as he performed normal archery.
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