Couple of UBW questions

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Unread postby Raitei » August 22nd, 2008, 4:30 am

gexer64 wrote:
Einherjar wrote:Berserker doesn't have 13lives, the NP does. and Caliburn can negate god hand to a certain extent (meaning god hand won't work fully), thus meaning cancels out some. It's not like caliburn is meant to take out 7 lives or anything, it's just that it happens to enough to negate to that extent. Caliburn didn't take out 7 because it's strong (it isn't really, and a traced version is even weaker), but because just kills berserker once, and made godhand stop working. I'm sure you can understand that.


Wouldn't that mean that the sword that was the blueprint for caliburn (that goldylocks had) would take even more lives away?
merodach? well, yes, it would.
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
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Unread postby Zensunni » August 22nd, 2008, 11:56 am

not convinced
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Unread postby Raitei » August 22nd, 2008, 1:08 pm

Zensunni wrote:not convinced
look, there are no such things as caliburn being "victory assurance". it's just but a title. like avalon "all is a distant utopia", gram "original sin", and such. it's even directly said that its power is nowhere near excalibur's.

even though god hand has a stock of 12 lives, its concept is still inferior to caliburn. that's why it can negate the effect of god hand. imagine a steel vault with stock of spares (yeah, whatever. it can be spares of wheels, etc, etc...). the vault is so strong that nothing can break it. and if a wheel is destroyed, another is going to replace it from inside the vault. but then there's this weapon which can blow the entire vault, because its power is higher than the vault's defenses. and boom! the remaining wheel reserves is gone along with the vault. got that?

ps : still not convinced, you'll have to ask nasu to explain it.
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Unread postby Einherjar » August 22nd, 2008, 1:46 pm

Excalibur is "Promised victory" and did shit against Gil's Ea.
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Unread postby gexer64 » August 22nd, 2008, 6:02 pm

Einherjar wrote:Excalibur is "Promised victory" and did shit against Gil's Ea.


That is because Ea is stronger. It even says so in the status screen.

Why is there arguing over Caliburn and Excalibur if the facts are directly stated in the game? And in an easily accessible area might I add. (Go to extras, weapons, and look at Caliburn.)

A title is a title. Like Fate/Stay night is a title. I could call a sword Chaos, the bringer of pudding and that wouldn't mean that when I used the sword it would rain pudding!
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Unread postby Einherjar » August 22nd, 2008, 10:26 pm

gexer64 wrote:
Einherjar wrote:Excalibur is "Promised victory" and did shit against Gil's Ea.


That is because Ea is stronger. It even says so in the status screen.

Why is there arguing over Caliburn and Excalibur if the facts are directly stated in the game? And in an easily accessible area might I add. (Go to extras, weapons, and look at Caliburn.)

A title is a title. Like Fate/Stay night is a title. I could call a sword Chaos, the bringer of pudding and that wouldn't mean that when I used the sword it would rain pudding!

God, you're misunderstanding me. Zensunni tells me that it worked cause it's "assured" so I'm saying "promised" can't even have any effect against Ea. Stop teaching me the obvious.
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Unread postby DarkRedSky » August 23rd, 2008, 1:10 am

When we're talking about Excalibur and Ea, we can't forget that sure Excalibur is called the "sword of promised victory". But victory in ANY circumstance means nothing when the other sword (seriously is it just me or does Ea look NOTHING like a sword except maybe the handle?) is known for splitting the freaking world apart. What was Excalibur? An anti-castle NP? Ea was anti-world wasn't it?
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Unread postby Keeper of Gil's Vault » August 23rd, 2008, 2:50 am

The name of a weapon is merely for aesthetic purposes, to gauge the power of a weapon, read its rank (E~EX or whatever) and also the status of the user. Excalibur is a lower rank weapon than Ea, and Gil's status is not that much different from Sabre under Shirou, so Excali-blast loses to Enuma Elish.
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Unread postby Riverl » August 23rd, 2008, 3:45 am

Uhm, I don't think "whatever Caliburn's prototype is" can assured taking 7 lives or more from Berserker
"The Son cannot beat the father" since the original is the purer existence, and the more one NP is modified and passed down, it's become "less pure", although its power may increased. The original is not necessarily stronger.
actually, Caliburn should be stronger since it's more famous, and the more famous, the more power a NP gain, as their power came from belief of mankind (like, Rho Aias gained its "block all projectiles" concept from belief of human, originally its only a shield with 7 layers that stopped "who that guys was called again" throwing lances, may be it had the "defensive power of a fortress" originally, but to block Lancer's throwing Lance, that only shouldn't be enough, as it's a C rank compare to B+)
BTW, I don't know what mystery/concept Caliburn carries with it, But Excalibur's concept is "A sword that can cut anything", its giant beam actually only deal damage with the tips, which is a slash, the tail is only a trail of light or something. "Promised victory" or "Assured Victory" are only the name, not the concept.

Shirou can trace stuff other than sword
But the projected results are always hollow inside
that is, until he traced a sword in F/SN

soccer ball is hollow inside, check
cloth... uhm, not really can hollow inside, check
shield, uhm, Kinoko said he can, so he can, check

But not all non mechanical items
Again, he traced spear and stuff that wasnt really sword, but they were similar, as in, they got a blade attached.


Raining of NP wont be enough to destroy Berserker 6 times if those NP are below B rank or exactly B rank

He would need at least an A+ rank (which is rare) original NP, so when he traced it, it would be B+, to take one Berserker life
there shouldn't be that many A+ NP to ensure sword rain can take out Berserker, A rank is already rare, and "rain of sword" actually is a random selection of swords from UBW, which make the chance even lower (he cant manually search and choose each sword among thousands, too time consuming in battle)
The reason UBW is E-A++ is that he can use the swords as Broken Phantasms, which raise their destruction level by a whole rank. (B rank become A rank), just like how he shot Caladbolg in UBW route
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Unread postby Zensunni » August 23rd, 2008, 8:23 pm

Raitei wrote:still not convinced, you'll have to ask nasu to explain it.


I'll pass, I'm afraid of him replying in english. :P

But yeah, I'd like to keep my delusions that these little things are open to interpratation. In the VN the characters hardly stopped to think how the hell they were able to kill Berserker and just moved on, even though it was quite a miracle. I think the sword in the stone shouldn't just outright ignore heracles' noble phantasm unless it has a counter-ability, so I'll keep these convictions, thanks.
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Unread postby gexer64 » August 23rd, 2008, 10:27 pm

Zensunni wrote:
Raitei wrote:still not convinced, you'll have to ask nasu to explain it.


I'll pass, I'm afraid of him replying in english. :P


There is so more truth in those words than you can comprehend. Nasu replying in english would probably rip the universe apart as we know it. Raining cats and dogs would become literal (Neko arcs and Chaos Dogs), aliens would come and steal all our women, and Sacchin would get her own route IN A FATE/STAY NIGHT REMAKE!!!!!

Isn't it sad?
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Unread postby Drigersfury » August 24th, 2008, 1:34 am

gexer64 wrote:
Zensunni wrote:
Raitei wrote:still not convinced, you'll have to ask nasu to explain it.


I'll pass, I'm afraid of him replying in english. :P


There is so more truth in those words than you can comprehend. Nasu replying in english would probably rip the universe apart as we know it. Raining cats and dogs would become literal (Neko arcs and Chaos Dogs), aliens would come and steal all our women, and Sacchin would get her own route IN A FATE/STAY NIGHT REMAKE!!!!!

Isn't it sad?


While Nasu's at it he should come up with a happy ending for Saber. Hmmm...Aliens stealing our women. Good thing I am not a woman. How about the Imouto's technically they aren't women.
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Unread postby that one guy » August 24th, 2008, 2:06 am

The imoutous will be left, but only for Taka. It is a reward for everything he has done for us. AND YOU WILL PRAISE HIS NAME! PA-RAISE TA-KA!!! HALLELUJAH!
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