Weird Archer questions. [Spoilers] <-- are welcome!

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Unread postby Raitei » August 23rd, 2008, 8:33 am

Riverl wrote:
it's not ubw. ubw is only the manifestation of his soul. rather, it's his own body. "his body is made out of swords". so tracing swords is basically like just transforming a part of his body into a sword.

UBW is the image of his soul, the reason of his uncanny ability in tracing/projection, Shirou himself said that.
If tracing is what make his body turning into swords, yes, that's the work of UBW
UBW doesn't necessary has to be "THE UBW" that appear, manifest, etc when he use his Reality Marble chant.
The image in his soul will always be there and work, passively.
I don't say it's not the work of ubw when he traces a sword, mind you. I'm referring to the material shirou's body is made of. it's not ubw. shirou's body is not made of ubw. it's his soul which is ubw. ubw didn't make the "sword armour" out of his body, as his body itself is the sword. the fin-like steel which came out when he's slashed by gilgamesh and rider. stop telling me the little details already. reality marble is always inside of him from the beginning, whether he cast it, or not. there, satisfied?
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I'm an agent of chaos."
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Unread postby Drigersfury » August 23rd, 2008, 9:01 am

Raitei wrote:
Riverl wrote:
it's not ubw. ubw is only the manifestation of his soul. rather, it's his own body. "his body is made out of swords". so tracing swords is basically like just transforming a part of his body into a sword.

UBW is the image of his soul, the reason of his uncanny ability in tracing/projection, Shirou himself said that.
If tracing is what make his body turning into swords, yes, that's the work of UBW
UBW doesn't necessary has to be "THE UBW" that appear, manifest, etc when he use his Reality Marble chant.
The image in his soul will always be there and work, passively.
I don't say it's not the work of ubw when he traces a sword, mind you. I'm referring to the material shirou's body is made of. it's not ubw. shirou's body is not made of ubw. it's his soul which is ubw. ubw didn't make the "sword armour" out of his body, as his body itself is the sword. the fin-like steel which came out when he's slashed by gilgamesh and rider. stop telling me the little details already. reality marble is always inside of him from the beginning, whether he cast it, or not. there, satisfied?


Well that still makes me wonder what it is. I don't know about HF, but in Fate and UBW the details of his shiny little blade armor aren't explained
(or I forgot). That seems like something important that has to have an explanation. I really doubt it has anything to do with Avalon. Maybe when he is in danger or something he subconciously projects blade like armor, but what makes it occur in only certain instances. Maybe if he didn't spend half his time whining about how he is about to pass or blow his circuts out during fights up until UBW Final Days we would know some answers.
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Unread postby Riverl » August 23rd, 2008, 9:38 am

'm referring to the material shirou's body is made of. it's not ubw. shirou's body is not made of ubw. it's his soul which is ubw. ubw didn't make the "sword armour" out of his body, as his body itself is the sword. the fin-like steel which came out when he's slashed by gilgamesh and rider

But according to your word, it may as well be the result of tracing, and in that case, indirectly, UBW is responsible
I never say his body is made of UBW
UBW affect his sorcery (by sorcery, I dont mean True Magic, my habit of using sorcery for normal spells that can be replicate started before the translation and it's a big hassle to fix), and is partially what make his body sword like if we go with your opinion:
it's his own body. "his body is made out of swords".so tracing swords is basically like just transforming a part of his body into a sword.

Well, unless I misunderstood something, if that's the case, please clarify.

Actually
tracing swords is basically like just transforming a part of his body into a sword.

isn't quite right
He use prana to process raw material into swords
normal mage need to carry those material, which is why projection is too much a hassle
But
In this Reality Marble, the substances needed to form all swords are present. Just by looking at the original, it is possible to replicate it. However, the replicated weapon is lowered by one rank. Defensive armaments are possible but the normal projection cost is two to three times the regular amount of Prana used in making swords. A weapon replicated once is recorded in the barrier and can be made without activating the Reality Marble using tracing thaumaturgy.

So Shirou doesn't need those materials
he transform the substances inside UBW into sword, that's his projection
Not really a part of his body, its from his soul, if you like to differ the two that much.


I'm under the impression that his change from the very core in HF is partly the reason using projection and the AP is killing him

For Emiya Shirou, whose life had been saved by a sword and who actually merged together and lived with a sword, his body wouldn't be the type that would destroy itself from sword-making.-Fuyukiwiki


P/S: I fail too understand how a person can have body made of swords if not for something unnatural, even if his affinity is "sword". It's either his merging with Avalon, his tracing, or his UBW, one or all of the above.
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Unread postby AvatarofRage » August 23rd, 2008, 9:49 am

I think a part of the problem is Shirou's lack of self. Considering that he considers others more important to himself, I think that he can only use the 'blade-skin' when he actually fears for his own life, that is, experiences the though 'I don't want to die'. Even then, it doesn't seem to be a particularly powerful defence...
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Unread postby Raitei » August 23rd, 2008, 3:11 pm

Riverl wrote:
In this Reality Marble, the substances needed to form all swords are present. Just by looking at the original, it is possible to replicate it. However, the replicated weapon is lowered by one rank. Defensive armaments are possible but the normal projection cost is two to three times the regular amount of Prana used in making swords. A weapon replicated once is recorded in the barrier and can be made without activating the Reality Marble using tracing thaumaturgy.

So Shirou doesn't need those materials
he transform the substances inside UBW into sword, that's his projection
Not really a part of his body, its from his soul, if you like to differ the two that much.
I don't say materials from outer sources is needed. it's already inside him. my memory must've been jumbled altogether; I forgot about that part of ubw explanation. but the substances that protect him from harm (rider's stab) is not ubw. I'm only trying to clear that up.

and I believe only artificial phantasm is what solely responsible for the destruction of shirou body in hf. he's been tracing countless times in fate and ubw, still, it doesn't eat his body away as drastically as in hf. even with martin's burial cloth, the grafting of archer's arm will eventually destroy him.


It's either his merging with Avalon, his tracing, or his UBW, one or all of the above.
pretty much, yeah.
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
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Unread postby Riverl » August 23rd, 2008, 3:32 pm

I only mean when he project something, it's transforming whatever substances he had in his UBW, not really transforming a part of his body.

Hmm, Atlas-ing HF is too much of a pain, I'll wait for the patch before I dare say anymore about HF Shirou. :?
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