F/S N Immersion [MASSIVE spoilers; endings]

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F/S N Immersion [MASSIVE spoilers; endings]

Unread postby Sepheriel » July 20th, 2008, 1:59 am

Well I finished the Fate roue about a day and a half to two days and ago finished UBW about 1 hour ago and I'm so ready for HF. I cannot express how thankful I am to all you guys at MM for your hard work it bringing this masterpiece to people who don't know Japanese or not enough of it. That aside, did anyone get as absorbed as I did while going through both routes. I mean I couldn't stop crying at the end of Fate, cause it was so unfair for Saber and it still brings me to tears after two days :cry: . It was like I knew her and the fact that she disappeared forever just killed me. Did anyone feel the same? Why couldn't it have ended with an ending like UBW's where Saber is able to stay (not the true ending)? Speaking of UBW, I like how it brought more character out of all of the Servants. But I'm still angry at how both true ending for both Routes end with Saber NOT ending up happy AND alive. It's was so frustrating when she told Shirou she loved him and then just vanished. How fair is that? Getting back on topic, since I'm not sure how long HF will take to be finished (before September); how can I be more immersed into the F/SN world? I don't know enough Japanese to play F/HA and I know I'll be able to finish the translated Fate/Zero volume fairly quickly. Any ideas would be great but most likely I'll just have to wait for HF and Beast Lair with F/HA. I could actually start playing Tsukihime seeing how I have barely touched it (read maybe 5 sentences?). Well sorry for the long post. And thanks again MM!

EDIT:

I would also like to add that I was extremely angry at Gilgamesh for killing Ilya and how he killed her. It was rather touching to see that Berserker cared for her through his breaking of the chains and through the intermission with him and Ilya.
Last edited by Sepheriel on July 20th, 2008, 2:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby Shirosaki » July 20th, 2008, 2:07 am

Well if you mean Type-Moon world then watch the kara no kyokai movie, read the novel, finish reading Tsukihime, maybe Kagetsu Tohya(EXTREMELY RARE) as for F/HA it's only at 10% or so so don't hold your breath, HF could also take awhile so yeah. Now you could do what i did, get a kanji dictionary for those you don't know and read F/HA yourself and mahou or other TM games.
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Unread postby DarkRedSky » July 20th, 2008, 2:13 am

Yeah you should try Kagetsu Tohya. For me it was really hard to find, but I think it was worth it.
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Unread postby Cat Megex » July 20th, 2008, 2:32 am

Finish Tsukihime, then obtain and play Kagetsu Tohya if you can (if you're really desperate, you could always try downloading the game and mailing a check for the correct value to TYPE-MOON; not sure how expensive international shipping for an individual letter is, though), and then get Melty Blood and/or its successors. (mirror moon currently has translations of Melty Blood and Melty Blood ReACT [note: ReACT requires the original Melty Blood], and their Act Cadenza translation [which is the arcade version that was then ported to PC] is in progress.)
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Unread postby TakaJun » July 22nd, 2008, 9:10 am

If you want to be immersed in the Type-Moon world, why not try reading the fan-fics?
I'm sure there are good ones out there.
Let's see... there's also MAD, other TYPE-MOON games, and.... anime?
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Unread postby Nephilm » July 23rd, 2008, 4:25 pm

I never shed any tears for Saber; I find her to be the most boring heroine and really dull for a main character. I only got teary eyed at two points during the Fate route: when Shirou projects Caliburn vs Berserker and when he projects Avalon at the end. Moments of awesome are about the only thing that cut it for me.

I got more immersed in UBW. I think I got teary eyed twice during the Archer's past intermissions, during/right before the Shirou and Rin scene at the cementery after Archer's betrayal, outright shed tears at the Ilya+Berserker part (which made me care for Ilya as a character for the first time, previously I found her annoying), and, for reasons previously mentioned: Shirou vs the golems, projecting K&B for the first time, Lancer vs Archer, Shirou vs Archer and Shirou vs Gilgamesh.

Anyways... if you think Fate was unfair for Saber, you're in for a ride with Heaven's Feel XD

The truth revealed + everything going to hell + Shirou being awesome + Rin being awesome (again; ugh @ tsundere UBW Rin) + slap in the face to Saberfags = Perfect Route
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Unread postby Raitei » July 23rd, 2008, 4:48 pm

Nephilm wrote:The truth revealed + everything going to hell + Shirou being awesome + Rin being awesome (again; ugh @ tsundere UBW Rin) + slap in the face to Saberfags = Perfect Route
...not. for the last one. respect other forumiters, please. :P
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Unread postby Einherjar » July 23rd, 2008, 4:57 pm

Nephilm wrote:I never shed any tears for Saber; I find her to be the most boring heroine and really dull for a main character. I only got teary eyed at two points during the Fate route: when Shirou projects Caliburn vs Berserker and when he projects Avalon at the end. Moments of awesome are about the only thing that cut it for me.

I got more immersed in UBW. I think I got teary eyed twice during the Archer's past intermissions, during/right before the Shirou and Rin scene at the cementery after Archer's betrayal, outright shed tears at the Ilya+Berserker part (which made me care for Ilya as a character for the first time, previously I found her annoying), and, for reasons previously mentioned: Shirou vs the golems, projecting K&B for the first time, Lancer vs Archer, Shirou vs Archer and Shirou vs Gilgamesh.

Anyways... if you think Fate was unfair for Saber, you're in for a ride with Heaven's Feel XD

The truth revealed + everything going to hell + Shirou being awesome + Rin being awesome (again; ugh @ tsundere UBW Rin) + slap in the face to Saberfags = Perfect Route

Well I liked Saber best, but
1. I never got teary eyed in both Fate and UBW(maybe Fate a long long time ago @ the very end).maybe I'm just not very emotional.
2. How is she boring? Can you bring a few statements or opinions so we can understand what you meant.
3.
I know Saber got destroyed in HF, and I'm okay with it.

You made it sound like this forum is full of Saberfags that cries about Saber's death everyday and trashes other heroines in F/SN. If you Hate Saber that's fine you know, but It sounded more like you just hate the route, since Rin didn't exactly play a big role in UBW (not as much as Saber in Fate anyways) but you said you liked it because it feature more action and Shirou being badass, which have nothing do to with heroines (maybe if Saber the heroine in H/F you'll like her better?).
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Unread postby Nephilm » July 23rd, 2008, 5:14 pm

Well I liked Saber best, but
1. I never got teary eyed in both Fate and UBW(maybe Fate a long long time ago).maybe I'm just not very emotional.
2. How is she boring? Can you bring a few statements or opinions so we can understand what you meant.
3.
I know Saber got destroyed in HF, and I'm okay with it.

You made it sound like this forum is full of Saberfags that cries about Saber's death everyday and trashes other heroines in F/SN. If you Hate Saber that's fine you know, but It sounded more like you just hate the route, since Rin didn't exactly play a big role in UBW (not as much as Saber in Fate anyways) but you said you liked it because it feature more action and Shirou being badass, which have nothing do to with heroines (maybe if Saber the heroine in H/F you'll like her better?).


I wasn't particularly referring to this forum, just in general I feel contempt for people who love Saber, cry over her and, for some, consider Fate the best route for being Saber-centric (this is mostly people that have only ever seen the anime). And I do dislike the Fate route, but don't hate Saber, I just find her... unlikeable. This is true for UBW Rin, but at least she's more entertaining and interesting in UBW than Saber is in Fate, and in the other routes she doesn't go all tsundere on your ass every 5 minutes, whereas Saber is same old Saber in all routes.

So in resume, to make things clear for you:

1. I dislike Fate route.
2. I dislike Saber.
3. The reasons for the above aren't directly related to each other.
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Unread postby Raitei » July 23rd, 2008, 5:24 pm

Nephilm wrote:I wasn't particularly referring to this forum, just in general I feel contempt for people who love Saber, cry over her and, for some, consider Fate the best route for being Saber-centric (this is mostly people that have only ever seen the anime). And I do dislike the Fate route, but don't hate Saber, I just find her... unlikeable. This is true for UBW Rin, but at least she's more entertaining and interesting in UBW than Saber is in Fate, and in the other routes she doesn't go all tsundere on your ass every 5 minutes, whereas Saber is same old Saber in all routes.

So in resume, to make things clear for you:

1. I dislike Fate route.
2. I dislike Saber.
3. The reasons for the above aren't directly related to each other.
okay, so you found saber "unlikeable" in fate and ubw. or in all routes. then again, have you read hf? I find it perfectly fine for someone to dislike a character, as long as s/he doesn't start screaming about like a certain someone. don't get me wrong; I'm not referring to anyone in particular.

and regarding your words from before... listen to this and try to get this through that thick skull of yours; it's not hf that'll likely slap us saber fans in the face. rather, it's you who've done it as you speak. there, now. satisfied?
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Unread postby ayadew » July 23rd, 2008, 6:47 pm

UBW was quite immersing.. the fight between Shirou and Archer was nervous.
But all of Nasu's characters lacks something, I don't know what it is but I can't feel for any of them. They are shallow and stereotype often.

Only if I fill out the gaps myself I can perhaps be affected by a few of them, which leads me to writing fanfics.
But that's only for myself.
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Unread postby Nephilm » July 23rd, 2008, 9:05 pm

Raitei wrote:have you read hf? I find it perfectly fine for someone to dislike a character, as long as s/he doesn't start screaming about like a certain someone. don't get me wrong; I'm not referring to anyone in particular.

and regarding your words from before... listen to this and try to get this through that thick skull of yours; it's not hf that'll likely slap us saber fans in the face. rather, it's you who've done it as you speak. there, now. satisfied?


HF is a slap on the face to Saber fans because her endings in that route are the worst. Thats what I meant, pure and simple, with that particular phrase. But of course, a strong Saber such as yourself felt my dislike of Saber to be a personal offense. I had avoided responding to you because I actually dislike you as a human being (a matter of principle), but oh well.

ayadew wrote:UBW was quite immersing.. the fight between Shirou and Archer was nervous.
But all of Nasu's characters lacks something, I don't know what it is but I can't feel for any of them. They are shallow and stereotype often.


Perhaps that's why I tend to like them... the more I know "real" people the less I tend to like them, but if there's enough empty space for me to fill with whatever my subconscious comes up with then I can empathize with them. Maybe Nasu hits my sweet spot between knowing and not knowing: creating a defined character while leaving them void enough for me to care about them.

Hm... maybe this is a reflection of my own void. I hadn't seen it from that approach before, the why I can only like fictional characters as opposed to real people.
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Unread postby ayadew » July 23rd, 2008, 9:41 pm

Nephilm wrote:Perhaps that's why I tend to like them... the more I know "real" people the less I tend to like them, but if there's enough empty space for me to fill with whatever my subconscious comes up with then I can empathize with them. Maybe Nasu hits my sweet spot between knowing and not knowing: creating a defined character while leaving them void enough for me to care about them.

Hm... maybe this is a reflection of my own void. I hadn't seen it from that approach before, the why I can only like fictional characters as opposed to real people.


Subconsciousness and void? Don't use such words so easily... They are undefined, and means so much yet so little; meaningless to everyone except yourself.
You are actively imagining and playing with them, placing the characters in different situations and creating more of the character for yourself. There is nothing subconscious in that. :)
Real people are infinitely more complex and interesting than a predictable personality outlined with rules. You cannot shape these fictional characters, you cannot grow with them. They are tools for a purpose, a mere emulation of life, which one might perhaps learn something from still. But I almost never have any feelings for them.
If you are afraid of the unknown, well that is human nature. One that I personally wish to ascend.
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Unread postby Einherjar » July 24th, 2008, 12:46 am

Nephilm wrote:HF is a slap on the face to Saber fans because her endings in that route are the worst. Thats what I meant, pure and simple, with that particular phrase. But of course, a strong Saber such as yourself felt my dislike of Saber to be a personal offense. I had avoided responding to you because I actually dislike you as a human being (a matter of principle), but oh well.

You hate people just because they disagree with you...
You're not gonna get many friends like that. >_>
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Unread postby Nephilm » July 24th, 2008, 1:33 am

ayadew wrote:Subconsciousness and void? Don't use such words so easily... They are undefined, and means so much yet so little; meaningless to everyone except yourself.
You are actively imagining and playing with them, placing the characters in different situations and creating more of the character for yourself. There is nothing subconscious in that. :)
Real people are infinitely more complex and interesting than a predictable personality outlined with rules. You cannot shape these fictional characters, you cannot grow with them. They are tools for a purpose, a mere emulation of life, which one might perhaps learn something from still. But I almost never have any feelings for them.
If you are afraid of the unknown, well that is human nature. One that I personally wish to ascend.


It's not fear of the unknown, but the fact that the more I learn of people through interaction with them, the more alienated I become of their thoughts and motivations. When it comes to people, the less I know them, the more I like them, as a generalization to which no exception comes to mind. As these fictional characters have, as you mentioned, predictable personalities outlined with rules, they lack the unsavory elements which real people possess. Once I know everything that needs to be known about a character, my thoughts on it become rather stable, with only gradual changes as my likes and tastes naturally shift. Either that, or I can simply strip the character of certain elements, remold it to my tastes and treat them as the emulations of life you hold them to be. This brings me to your comment about shaping and growing fictional characters... I hold this true for real people. I treat them as tools for a purpose, and as my ability to shape them is limited by skill and circumstances, they do not grow in me. I almost never have any feelings for them, just a general contempt for people in general, as they simply are not me.

Einherjar wrote:You hate people just because they disagree with you...
You're not gonna get many friends like that. >_>


I dislike people as dictated by how I disagree with them, but no, I don't have many friends... though the standards to what people hold their "friends" is rather low in general, in my opinion.
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Unread postby Raitei » July 24th, 2008, 3:17 am

oh, just ignore him, einherjar. it's obvious that he just wants to rant, and not going to hold a constructive discussion. we're not going to have a meaningful conversation with him, anyway.
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Unread postby Sepheriel » July 24th, 2008, 4:03 am

Well good lord. This topic sure went somewhere else than had been originally planned but anyway. Thanks to all who posted relevant to the topic and keep up the hard work MM staff :)
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Unread postby nobaka » July 24th, 2008, 4:40 am

TakaJun wrote:If you want to be immersed in the Type-Moon world, why not try reading the fan-fics?
I'm sure there are good ones out there.
Let's see... there's also MAD, other TYPE-MOON games, and.... anime?


Could you recommend some good fics?
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Unread postby Cat Megex » July 24th, 2008, 4:51 am

Well...there's always the translation of the Tsukihime Prologue, and Plus Period.

...In fact, I still need to read the translation of Plus Period, myself.
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