UBW Spoiler!!!

It's alright, we feel your pain. Noone wants to admit being gar for Berserker.

Moderator: Staffers

TheOverlord
Posting more than n00bs
Posts: 21
Joined: March 28th, 2008, 12:43 pm

UBW Spoiler!!!

Unread post by TheOverlord » April 15th, 2008, 2:07 pm

After playing through UBW and getting the true ending i was irked by a few things.

Its stated at the end that Archer will only have received a moments piece as long as he remained in the world and after he departs he will return to his 'must kill Shirou to alleviate his frsutration' persona. However i'm pretty sure Archer said that any time he is called out as a CG all the information is phoned home to the ToHs which explains why he remebers all the times he was called out to do a bit of cleaning. Why then will he not remember his change of heart. I mean all he has to do is come across that information and alls fine and dandy.

It just seemed that the two staements were completely contradictory but maybe i've just misunderstood something. Basically any clarification is appreciated.

Ciel
Crack Desu!
Posts: 454
Joined: March 11th, 2004, 6:44 am

Unread post by Ciel » April 15th, 2008, 3:04 pm

Dunno, maybe it could be because in fate he wasn't summoned as a counter guardian, but rather a part of the grail war, if something like that's possible.

Not sure, I've been avoiding the info on wikis etc. cause they tend to throw spoilers for other routes at you without warning, and I'd kinda like to experience HF by myself, when (if ever) it comes out.

That and my will is too weak, so when i see a [spoiler] button I'm tempted to click it. :P

chasmirror
Crack Addic!
Posts: 148
Joined: June 22nd, 2007, 1:09 am
Location: Indiana

Re: UBW Spoiler!!!

Unread post by chasmirror » April 15th, 2008, 6:59 pm

TheOverlord wrote: Its stated at the end that Archer will only have received a moments piece as long as he remained in the world and after he departs he will return to his 'must kill Shirou to alleviate his frsutration' persona. However i'm pretty sure Archer said that any time he is called out as a CG all the information is phoned home to the ToHs which explains why he remebers all the times he was called out to do a bit of cleaning. Why then will he not remember his change of heart. I mean all he has to do is come across that information and alls fine and dandy.
Actually, it is not that simple.
► Show Spoiler

rastilin
Might just like this board
Posts: 48
Joined: November 29th, 2007, 2:17 pm

Unread post by rastilin » April 16th, 2008, 6:33 am

I have to wonder about that interpretation.
► Show Spoiler

Inverted
Crack Desu!
Posts: 263
Joined: February 2nd, 2008, 7:25 pm

Unread post by Inverted » April 16th, 2008, 11:38 am

My own personal interpretation is this
► Show Spoiler

serialies
Crack Desu!
Posts: 396
Joined: October 13th, 2007, 6:05 am

Unread post by serialies » April 17th, 2008, 4:16 am

..Archer didnt want to kill shirou the second he was summoned (or before he was summoned), if you recall he tried to SAVE Shirou up until Shirou did the whole "i Archer did the whole "drown in your delusions" speech -> shitstorm. he first tried to persuade Shirou off the path which would lead to Shirou -> Archer, and only when that failed did Archer decide to kill him.

HF route
► Show Spoiler
of course this DOES contradict the "i base this on the 1/infinity chance that if i kill this guy i will be saved" talk Archer did

also, F/ha may explain a few of the Archer things that have been asked...for one
► Show Spoiler
EDIT: OK this is the scene stuff:

"You idiot...!
How long are you going to just stand there...!?
Archer charges at me with a scary expression

ect ect

"damn, why do i have to do such a thing-----!?"

ect ect

i can't believe it
Archer's running while carrying me---!?

ect ect (insults and stuff)

ive just been saved by him, but i just can't accept this.

blah blah (Archer kicks Shirou away so he wont be frozen by Casters magic, Archer is now frozen)

blah blah (big talk, Archer spares caster vice versa)

*caster walks/teleports off*
*Shirou tries to chase*
"are you stupid? you'll surely die if you follow her"

blah blah (Archer reveals that he spared Caster because he wants her to defeat beserker, and then Archer would swoop in for the kill)

blah blah talk about ideals

"im not like you i can't sacrifice people around me to win!"
Archer: "i feel the same way, Emiya Shirou. But you cannot save everyone"

blah blah , argument about ideals and stuff -> Shirou decides to go challenge caster dispite the fact he would get pwnedx10 simply because his ideals demand no less

Archer: atleast thank me for saving your life blah blah
Shirou: NO U

blah blah slash slash Archer 1/2 pwns shirou

"its hypocrisy for you to fight for someone else and not yourself. you only wish for peace and not victory --- such a thing does not exist anywhere in this world"

blah blah

"farewell. drown in your ideals and die"

---

so from that i think its pretty clear killing Shirou was his second option, if Shirou had agreed to what Archer said then certainly Archer would loose interest in killing Shirou, as it would stop Shirou -> path of Archer.

---

scene of "near 0 chance"

this is the important bit imo

Saber "are you going to kill Shirou with your own hands?"

Archer "yes. i kept waiting for this chance. it was a possibility close to zero. but i staked everything on t. i could not contain myself unless i believied in it. while i acted as a guardian this was the one hope that kept me going"

Saber "that is meaningless, Archer blah blah you wont disappear"

Archer "that may be true. but there's still a chance however small. just altering the past might not be enough, but the paradox will be even greater if i am the one to do it. if the distortion is large enough---a hero called Emiya will disappear here".
---

while this is a weak argument on my behalf: Archer says specifically "altering the past", if you couple this with "i dont like meaningless killing" from the Caster V Archer scene it does somewhat infer that killing Shirou wasnt his first preference.

after all Saber asked his intent at that time, not his intent throughout. at that time? to kill Shirou. his intent throughout? cause a paradox powerful enough to make Archer disappear, so not specifically "kill Shirou"
I order the club sandwich all the time, but I'm not even a member. Man, I don't know how I get away with it.

Dante Obscuri
Addict
Posts: 60
Joined: December 26th, 2007, 2:40 am

Unread post by Dante Obscuri » April 17th, 2008, 7:29 am

In Fate, there's a scene in which Rin asks Archer what'd he use the Grail for? Archer said the Grail couldn't grant his wish (pime taradox to remove himself from the Throne of Heroes). There's also the part in HF when he mentions his "personal vendetta".

Archer's objective is to break his contract with the world, not to save his past selves.

serialies
Crack Desu!
Posts: 396
Joined: October 13th, 2007, 6:05 am

Unread post by serialies » April 17th, 2008, 10:23 am

Archer's objective is to break his contract with the world, not to save his past selves.
if thats directed at my post; i dont mean "save" as in "save from doomed fate" i mean "save" in the very literal sense that if Archer didnt grab shirou and run from Caster, Shirou = dead. short term save so to speak.
I order the club sandwich all the time, but I'm not even a member. Man, I don't know how I get away with it.

uriel
Might just like this board
Posts: 56
Joined: April 10th, 2008, 7:29 am

Unread post by uriel » April 17th, 2008, 2:46 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in UBW rin used a command spell to prevent archer from hurting/killing shirou, and this is also the reason he needed to break the contract with rin.
Probably he didn't try to kill shirou at the very beginning for this reason
"Someone said is better to reign in hell than serve in heaven, but that is a defeatistic attitude.
I won't reign only in hell"

Undream
Crack Addic!
Posts: 197
Joined: March 21st, 2008, 6:07 am
Location: There

Unread post by Undream » April 18th, 2008, 12:46 am

in short, he probably saved shirou from caster because he believed he had to do it himself
"...One must wait continuously, one must pursue endlessly.
They must realize that it was impossible to succeed yet
at the same time be capable of enduring patiently.
Is that... the story of a dream that shouldn't be waited upon?..."
Last Episode

Dante Obscuri
Addict
Posts: 60
Joined: December 26th, 2007, 2:40 am

Unread post by Dante Obscuri » April 18th, 2008, 1:52 am

serialies wrote:if thats directed at my post; i dont mean "save" as in "save from doomed fate" i mean "save" in the very literal sense that if Archer didnt grab shirou and run from Caster, Shirou = dead. short term save so to speak.
If Caster kills Shirō, Archer can't kill him; that's simple logic. Archer thinks he needs to kill Shirō himself, in order to create that time paradox.

The thing with Archer is that no matter what he may do, he is still Emiya Shirō; he is still a nice guy. That's why he didn't kill Shirō in Fate and HF - where Shirō was struggling to save someone.

serialies
Crack Desu!
Posts: 396
Joined: October 13th, 2007, 6:05 am

Unread post by serialies » April 18th, 2008, 4:54 am

well Archer had plenty of chances before hand, but he only tried to kill Shirou after the after-caster talk.

walking him home at night, that certainly was a big big chance, and immediately after caster left Archer still took the time to talk to
Shirou about the whole "ideal" thing.

so yah, as i said before time paradox doesnt automatically mean kill Shirou...it was just one of the possibilities that Archer chose.
I order the club sandwich all the time, but I'm not even a member. Man, I don't know how I get away with it.

Post Reply