About Reality Marbles

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Geburah san
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About Reality Marbles

Unread post by Geburah san » April 13th, 2008, 9:45 pm

Why the magic association has forbidden the use of RM? Mages have almost no rules as long as the magic as art keep developing and dont get exposed to public, so why that restriction?

Shirosaki
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Unread post by Shirosaki » April 13th, 2008, 10:02 pm

because there has to be a balance of power, for example if shirou went and was allowed to use ubw and he had been allowed to practice it, what's stopping him from using ubw to annihilate an entire city, answer == nothing because its his own world so it'd also be extremely impossible to kill him especially if he hacks out avalon etc.

uriel
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Unread post by uriel » April 14th, 2008, 6:54 am

I think the reason because Reality Marble is considered a forbidden magic is that the mage to create a RM destroys the world all around him and then he recreates it as an image of his heart/thoughts, altering the physic of the world.
Rin also said that RM is considered by the association a magic very close to sorcery, and if I remember well, sorcery are forbidden (but I'm not sure about this).

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Unread post by Mukuro » April 14th, 2008, 7:08 am

The same reason why any other overpowered skills/magic/weapon/whatever is forbidden in any other games/anime, simply because it is overpowered and the use of one will result in destruction to many things (okay maybe not all RM are THAT powerful, but still...).

Well, the use of one is forbidden but people who had RM is regarded quite high by the association if I remember it right...

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Unread post by rastilin » April 14th, 2008, 7:23 am

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chasmirror
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Re: About Reality Marbles

Unread post by chasmirror » April 14th, 2008, 7:57 am

Geburah san wrote:Why the magic association has forbidden the use of RM? Mages have almost no rules as long as the magic as art keep developing and dont get exposed to public, so why that restriction?
There must have been some misunderstandings, because the mage association has never FORBIDDEN the Reality Marble. I think there was a misinterpretation of the rule within the mage association that arrests and confines anyone who would be capable of such an ability. It's not that they are forbidding the Reality Marble, but they are locking up anyone who can use it in order to PRESERVE it.

The fact of the matter is that, by confining some mages, officially the mage association is PROTECTING those who can operate a Reality Marble, for the rarity of such cases. Their arguement is that since the Reality Marble is a magical mystery that cannot be achieved thruogh normal means, it should be protected and preserved for the future study by the mage association, who has the prestige and the responsibility of being the center of pursuing the essense of magic. However, in order to do so, they basically seal the mage's magic ability and freedom to "protect" them properly, which would be worse than death for any mage who spends all their lives pursuing the Origin of All Thing through magic. This is not limited just to the Reality Marble. They also do this to anyone who owns abnormal magical ability(something that cannot achived by normal magic training), or those who reveals the existence of magic to public, although the latter case would be more of a cover-up job, not to mention a punishment.

Simply put, as an example, it'd be like NBA forcing LeBron James right now to never play basketball BECAUSE he is so good at basketball, thus eliminating any chance of injury. This is why Rin warns Shiro not to reveal his ability. If caught, Shiro would be locked up in London Tower forever until the magic has advanced enough to study his power. Aozaki Tohko was also designated to receive this fate, but she ran away. Tohko also mentioned that if Shiki(Kara no Kyoukai)'s eyes were to be known, she would also be locked up for the same reason.

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Re: About Reality Marbles

Unread post by Yazan Kiriel » April 15th, 2008, 4:47 am

chasmirror wrote:
Geburah san wrote:Why the magic association has forbidden the use of RM? Mages have almost no rules as long as the magic as art keep developing and dont get exposed to public, so why that restriction?
There must have been some misunderstandings, because the mage association has never FORBIDDEN the Reality Marble. I think there was a misinterpretation of the rule within the mage association that arrests and confines anyone who would be capable of such an ability. It's not that they are forbidding the Reality Marble, but they are locking up anyone who can use it in order to PRESERVE it.

The fact of the matter is that, by confining some mages, officially the mage association is PROTECTING those who can operate a Reality Marble, for the rarity of such cases. Their arguement is that since the Reality Marble is a magical mystery that cannot be achieved thruogh normal means, it should be protected and preserved for the future study by the mage association, who has the prestige and the responsibility of being the center of pursuing the essense of magic. However, in order to do so, they basically seal the mage's magic ability and freedom to "protect" them properly, which would be worse than death for any mage who spends all their lives pursuing the Origin of All Thing through magic. This is not limited just to the Reality Marble. They also do this to anyone who owns abnormal magical ability(something that cannot achived by normal magic training), or those who reveals the existence of magic to public, although the latter case would be more of a cover-up job, not to mention a punishment.

Simply put, as an example, it'd be like NBA forcing LeBron James right now to never play basketball BECAUSE he is so good at basketball, thus eliminating any chance of injury. This is why Rin warns Shiro not to reveal his ability. If caught, Shiro would be locked up in London Tower forever until the magic has advanced enough to study his power. Aozaki Tohko was also designated to receive this fate, but she ran away. Tohko also mentioned that if Shiki(Kara no Kyoukai)'s eyes were to be known, she would also be locked up for the same reason.
Make sense, what do the Mage Association have against those with True Magic though like Aoko and Zeltrech though? True Magic seems more rare then Reality Marbles which Nasu seems to be giving to alot of characters in his stories...

chasmirror
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Re: About Reality Marbles

Unread post by chasmirror » April 15th, 2008, 8:56 am

Yazan Kiriel wrote: Make sense, what do the Mage Association have against those with True Magic though like Aoko and Zeltrech though? True Magic seems more rare then Reality Marbles which Nasu seems to be giving to alot of characters in his stories...
Well, there have been five characters(Arc, Roa, Nero Chaos, Tatari, and Shiro) appearing in Nasuverse stories that can use Reality Marbles. Eight if you count the Dead Apostles which are known only as in settings. So when you think about it, the Reality Marbles isn't as rare as one might think in Nasuverse.

However, among those who are known to possess it, Shiro is the only human being, making him an exceptional case study for the Mage Association had he been found to own it.

Furthermore, the Reality Marble still falls under the category of magic, and does not consider to be a True Magic. The reasoning is that although it is practically impossible to achieve what is done in a Reality Marble, it is not totally impossible. For example, with enough funds and resources, one can build an environment similar to UBW, although the requirement would be a "out-of-this-world" kind. It is still technically possible.

True Magic, on the other hand, is the relm of impossibles with current knowledges, like the 2nd True Magic that deals with parallel universe. The possibility of parallel universes is known, but cannot be explored in any technical or theoretical mean. Yet Zelretch yields it, making him one of the 5 Wizards.

But the Mage Association do not have anything agaist those who practices True Magic. They actually respect them quite a lot. It's just that those Wizards, ones who can use True Magic, are all a very eccentric bunch. They drop by the Mage Association once in a while and wreak a havoc. Zelretch is a good example. One of the reasons of him being the only practitioner of the 2nd True Magic is that his so-called training almost always renders his student dead or insane. Also, all of them are extremely powerful, thus impossible to detain by any method. So the Mage Association would respect and leave them alone.

However, like I said above, the Reality Marble is a different story. It achieves things that are technically possible but practically not. Its efficiency rivals almost that of a Philosopher's Stone. This is why Shiro would be designated as one of the "Protected" if his ability is known.

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Re: About Reality Marbles

Unread post by Kansho » April 15th, 2008, 10:23 am

Yazan Kiriel wrote:(Arc, Roa, Nero Chaos, Tatari, and Shiro)
Arc use Marble Phantasm, not Reality Marble. And you forgot Sacchin, she can use Depletion Garden.
見せかけの自分はそっと捨ててただありのままで
misekake no jibun ha sotto sutete tada ari no mama de -
Throw away the "fake me" quietly and just be myself.

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Unread post by JimmyT64 » April 15th, 2008, 10:45 am

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Tsukihime drinking game. 1. Every time a word or a phrase is repeated 3 or more times, take a drink (eg. This chair).
2. Every time Shiki claims not to understand something already explained, take a drink
3. Every time Shiki doesn't realize someone is hitting on him, take a drink.
4. Every time someone who should be dead, isn't, take a drink.
5. Every time Shiki does something ridiculous with points\lines.

Kansho
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Unread post by Kansho » April 15th, 2008, 11:05 am

Er, no. Marble Phantasm isn't a Reality Marble. Is kinda the opposite.

Marble Phantasm is a elemental power to shape the world under its rules.
Reality Marble is the common sense of the spirit world that the demons possess outside its rules.
http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Marble_Phantasm
見せかけの自分はそっと捨ててただありのままで
misekake no jibun ha sotto sutete tada ari no mama de -
Throw away the "fake me" quietly and just be myself.

Anon of /jp/
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Unread post by Anon of /jp/ » April 15th, 2008, 11:24 am

JimmyT64 wrote:
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Crimson Moon
One of Alts Bodyguards
Warachia
Gransurg
Nero Chaos
Roa
Sacchin ;_;
Shirou/Archer
Alexander
Ort
Arc can use Marble Phantasm to use Crimson Moons RM.
Alt summoned Millenium Castle Brunestud

I missed someone?

ayadew
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Unread post by ayadew » April 15th, 2008, 3:23 pm

Kansho wrote:Er, no. Marble Phantasm isn't a Reality Marble. Is kinda the opposite.

Marble Phantasm is a elemental power to shape the world under its rules.
Reality Marble is the common sense of the spirit world that the demons possess outside its rules.
http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Marble_Phantasm
When I read the definitions it's hard to not laugh at Nasu for all his bullshittery.
The instant I tear off your limbs, rip open your chest and pull out your intestines, biting into your neck as you ask for mercy, chewing through your eyes and spreading your brains on the ground like butter-------!

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Unread post by Darkfater » April 16th, 2008, 9:24 am

This is an interesting conversation here, but every time a topic like this pops up i get a stronger and stronger urge to post this picture.

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I know it's fun to speculate, but it get annoying after a while.
Also, i don't want to offend anyone.

chasmirror
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Unread post by chasmirror » April 16th, 2008, 8:08 pm

Darkfater wrote:This is an interesting conversation here, but every time a topic like this pops up i get a stronger and stronger urge to post this picture.

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I know it's fun to speculate, but it get annoying after a while.
Also, i don't want to offend anyone.
LOL! Yeah, let's think of the cat girls! My lips are sealed now!

pchunter
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Unread post by pchunter » April 16th, 2008, 9:18 pm

LOL, i believe this conversation has ended in preservation of the cat-girls. :D (where did you get it) (9 cat girls have died D: )

inferno_flamex
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Unread post by inferno_flamex » April 17th, 2008, 1:33 am

pchunter wrote:LOL, i believe this conversation has ended in preservation of the cat-girls. :D (where did you get it) (9 cat girls have died D: )
And i respectfully ask, does anyone know which anime was that from?? XDD

Neko-girls just rules.. Even kohaku and ilya has abit of that cat-girl element. At least i think they do..
"When a petanko hugs you, she's hugging closer to her heart"...
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Unread post by DrunkDragon » April 17th, 2008, 5:51 am

I believe they are from UFO princess valkyrie

Darkfater
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Unread post by Darkfater » April 17th, 2008, 8:46 am

To be honest, i don't know what the pic is from, i found it on one of my buddies comp. But it would be nice to know indeed. *needs to satisfy the never weakening hunger for catgirls* :lol: If it's from UFO Princess Valkyrie, then that series just made it to my plan to watch list.

james-skarz
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Mmmm

Unread post by james-skarz » April 17th, 2008, 12:57 pm

Marble Phantasm is more like spacial distortion than a Reality Marble...btw. The only example I have memorized is the Castle Brunested...which both Arcueid and Altrouge summoned (while I've only read Tsukihime -_-), but in Arc's case, Shiki noted that the space around Roa became distorted, meaning that a Marble Phantasm, like a Noble Phantasm, can be directed at an enemy and used as a direct form of weapon (albeit a sorcery). A Reality Marble however, does something different, as another example, it is a world that embodies the user's thoughts.
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Anyway it's probably sealed off for the sake of protection, as I'm sure I read somewhere that the Mage's Association was also chasing the infamous Nasu-verse hopping Kishua Schweinorg Zelretch as he is one of the last known sorcerors alive. Therefore any normal person or mage that can use sorcery is sought after by the Mage's Association for the sake of information acquisition and protection (a big way of saying they need them out of the way).
LEADER OF THE GARSERKERS!!! ^_^

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