Questions I came across while playing (Fate spoilers)

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Balcerzak
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Questions I came across while playing (Fate spoilers)

Unread post by Balcerzak » March 30th, 2008, 8:32 pm

Possible plot hole? In the final fight between Saber and Rider, if the Pegasus blast would have devastated the entire building, killing Shirou, and forcing Saber to use Excalibur to prevent that, wouldn't that have killed Shinji too (since he was also at the roof)? Rider wouldn't do something suicidal like that, would she....?

Scene title:
1st Day: After school "Expensive flower(Intended pun)"
What's the pun?

Possible plot hole? If Gilgamesh was Kirei's Servant (like it is stated) _and_ knowing that Gilgamesh survived to the end of the previous Holy Grail War, how can one reconcile that with Saber's comment (in one of the dead ends) that Kiritsugu said that Kotomine was the enemy they had to go after first? Clearly they couldn't have gone after him first, because he was around until last...

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Re: Questions I came across while playing (Fate spoilers)

Unread post by Undream » March 30th, 2008, 8:37 pm

Balcerzak wrote:Possible plot hole? In the final fight between Saber and Rider, if the Pegasus blast would have devastated the entire building, killing Shirou, and forcing Saber to use Excalibur to prevent that, wouldn't that have killed Shinji too (since he was also at the roof)? Rider wouldn't do something suicidal like that, would she....?

Scene title:
1st Day: After school "Expensive flower(Intended pun)"
What's the pun?

Possible plot hole? If Gilgamesh was Kirei's Servant (like it is stated) _and_ knowing that Gilgamesh survived to the end of the previous Holy Grail War, how can one reconcile that with Saber's comment (in one of the dead ends) that Kiritsugu said that Kotomine was the enemy they had to go after first? Clearly they couldn't have gone after him first, because he was around until last...
My bet is, Rider knew Saber would protect Shirou, thus sadly protecting shinji in the process..
"...One must wait continuously, one must pursue endlessly.
They must realize that it was impossible to succeed yet
at the same time be capable of enduring patiently.
Is that... the story of a dream that shouldn't be waited upon?..."
Last Episode

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Unread post by Brizzle » March 30th, 2008, 8:47 pm

Regarding Kiritsugu and Kotomine,
Spoilers for Fate/Zero
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At least, that's what I think I know. Wing Zero would probably know better. =P
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Unread post by WingZero » March 30th, 2008, 9:02 pm

Regarding Bellerophon, yes it would definitely have killed Shinji too.

But Shinji issued a command like "kill them, do whatever it takes" or something (I can't recall the scene very well), and since Rider didn't like Shinji to begin with (I don't think anyone does, really) it's in her best interests that Shinji died along with Saber/Shirou.
HF route spoiler:
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As for the pun... I don't remember that scene at all =/.

As for the last part, Brizzle pretty much has it covered.

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Unread post by Raitei » March 30th, 2008, 11:43 pm

Brizzle wrote:
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At least, that's what I think I know. Wing Zero would probably know better. =P
oho? afaik, I see that
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"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
Fate/world providence

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Unread post by WingZero » March 31st, 2008, 1:12 am

He easily dismissed Kayneth as not a big threat.

Fate/Zero Vol.1 Spoilers:
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Unread post by Raitei » March 31st, 2008, 1:53 am

so that's that, then. strong =/= dangerous.
I think the only explanation why kiritsugu didn't go after kirei first was just because he didn't have the right opportunity knock on him.
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
Fate/world providence

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Unread post by Qaenyin Angelblade » March 31st, 2008, 4:46 am

HF spoilers.
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Unread post by radical_number6 » March 31st, 2008, 7:23 am

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Unread post by Brizzle » March 31st, 2008, 7:35 am

radical_number6 wrote:
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Unread post by radical_number6 » March 31st, 2008, 8:03 am

Brizzle wrote:
radical_number6 wrote:
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you would think such forbidden technique would be hard to attain, no? it probably would be a blasphemy for merlin and zelrecth to do reality marble. are they even allow to? nobody keep tabs on zelrecth anyway, same could be said for merlin maybe. oh no, i has eaten my own words!

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Unread post by rastilin » March 31st, 2008, 9:56 am

It's funny how the mages keep going on about attaining the ultimate power, but it seems that everything that's actually powerful is labeled a "forbidden" technique. Now this might be for the student's own safety, since they don't want to lose any of their number to preventable accidents, but it still feels like they're impeding themselves.

You could make an argument how the more powerful techniques run a risk of messing up the countryside, but that would be a point in using them. Namely, once you've made the decision to throw down reality marbles and marble phantasms against each other, odds are that stealth and circumspection are out the window. Come to think of it, that would be worth seeing, I hope there's a sequel.

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Unread post by Balcerzak » March 31st, 2008, 4:19 pm

WingZero wrote:Regarding Bellerophon, yes it would definitely have killed Shinji too.

But Shinji issued a command like "kill them, do whatever it takes" or something (I can't recall the scene very well), and since Rider didn't like Shinji to begin with (I don't think anyone does, really) it's in her best interests that Shinji died along with Saber/Shirou.

As for the pun... I don't remember that scene at all =/.

As for the last part, Brizzle pretty much has it covered.
Okay, I can buy that. She didn't seem real attached to Shinji, and he was certainly desperate to keep his Command Spells when Shirou was trying to force him to give them up, seeming genuinely frightened. So I can assume they didn't have a very cordial relationship and if she were tired of his bumbling, she may have decided to interpret his command in a way that would let her off him, and hope she could find a replacement Master before disappearing.

That scene was helping Issei after school on the first day, instead of going to work at your part-time job. I didn't notice, or don't remember noticing, any references to flowers anywhere in the text, as it was basically just a "Shirou, you're too nice, people will take advantage of you" conversation.

And thanks, everyone, for the unravelling of the third question. I only skimmed, because I don't want to be too badly spoiled, but what I saw made enough sense that I could reconcile things.

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Unread post by Kansho » March 31st, 2008, 4:33 pm

Balcerzak wrote:Okay, I can buy that. She didn't seem real attached to Shinji, and he was certainly desperate to keep his Command Spells when Shirou was trying to force him to give them up, seeming genuinely frightened. So I can assume they didn't have a very cordial relationship and if she were tired of his bumbling, she may have decided to interpret his command in a way that would let her off him, and hope she could find a replacement Master before disappearing.
HF spoilers incoming.

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misekake no jibun ha sotto sutete tada ari no mama de -
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Unread post by es21fanboy » April 18th, 2008, 2:46 pm

I also have a question regarding the Fate route.

When Shirou gives Saber back Avalon near the end of the story, is that the actual Avalon or merely a projection? It seems that it is the real thing since they say how Shirou wouldn't be able to auto-heal anymore but I just wanted to make sure.

Also does that mean that at the end Shirou makes a nearly perfect projection of Avalon?
So at the end of the Fate route Shirou doesn't have Avalon anymore but can still project one?

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Unread post by inferno_flamex » April 18th, 2008, 5:41 pm

es21fanboy wrote:I also have a question regarding the Fate route.
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If i remembered right...
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Just like... UBW SPOILER!!!
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I dont think that having Avalon inside of him has ANYTHING to do with being able to project ANYTHING...
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I think he CAN project regardless of Avalon. Its just that the energy/sacrifice/after-effects of the projections are the ones that changed... Presumably MORE...
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Unread post by Nephilm » April 18th, 2008, 6:55 pm

Avalon might have had something to do with his "body made of swords", that is, the development of his innate ability, but no, its power is not necessary for tracing.

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Unread post by es21fanboy » April 18th, 2008, 8:26 pm

At the end of Fate though, he does not have the actual Avalon in his body anymore right?

How do you use the spoiler function?

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Unread post by Raitei » April 18th, 2008, 8:40 pm

Nephilm wrote:Avalon might have had something to do with his "body made of swords", that is, the development of his innate ability, but no, its power is not necessary for tracing.
hmm, you forget that he can trace defensive equipments as well? just it costs him three times the amount of mana.
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"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
Fate/world providence

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Unread post by Brizzle » April 18th, 2008, 9:53 pm

es21fanboy wrote:At the end of Fate though, he does not have the actual Avalon in his body anymore right?

How do you use the spoiler function?
Correct, Avalon was removed. Avalon is composed of uncountable "pieces" that create the field that protects the bearer (like creating a totally enclosed world). This is why it can be put inside someone's body.

To spoil, look at the top of the reply box. There are instructions there. Failing that, hightlight the text you wish to hide and click on the spoiler tag box.
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