UBW Lancer

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Unread postby DarkEyes » May 3rd, 2008, 10:02 pm

Anti-star noble phantasm? What's the power of those? Btw, the status menu says that Ex is an anti-castle NP...
Kansho wrote:That's official info explained in Fate/Side Material, not bullshit.

Well sry, but u can't blame me for counting on the stuff I read in the game =p Or for not understanding japanese to read Fate/Side Material..


Since Gae Bolg can be both an anti-army and anti-unit NP, I wonder if Aius could block the stabbed attack... Since the spear always finds a direct path to the heart, wouldn't it just go around the shield?
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Unread postby DragoonKnight » May 4th, 2008, 12:38 am

It would go through the shield without a problem, Rho Aias would do jack about that attack since the effect is already determined.
Since Lancer didn't know Archer had anything like Rho Aias he just used the thrown version and was like "WTF mate!?".
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Unread postby Raitei » May 4th, 2008, 1:46 am

DarkEyes wrote:Anti-star noble phantasm? What's the power of those? Btw, the status menu says that Ex is an anti-castle NP...
I have never seen anything like anti-star noble phantasm before.. only anti-castle np ( excalibur ) and anti-world np ( ea / enuma elish )... maybe that's what he meant :P
DarkEyes wrote:Since Gae Bolg can be both an anti-army and anti-unit NP, I wonder if Aius could block the stabbed attack... Since the spear always finds a direct path to the heart, wouldn't it just go around the shield?
er, most likely. in addition, impaling barbed death isn't a thrown weapon, so rho aias shouldn't be able to function optimally.
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
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Unread postby bob022 » May 4th, 2008, 7:23 am

DarkEyes wrote:Where the hell did u get idea?
Lancer only followed either orders via command spell or orders he doesn't mind himself.. When he let Saber go after his first match with her, he was under the effect of the "Fight against everyone. But do not defeat them. Survive your first battle against any opponent." command spell order... Later in Fate he screwed Kotomine and attacked Gil letting Saber & Shirou high tail it... And in UBW he got orders to help Tohsaka and Shirou, it kinda looked to me like he enjoyed em =p Lastly he killed himself with a CS order and then stabbed the shit out of Kotomine in return.. I dunn see 'em following too much orders, dude =|

There's a difference between taking orders seriously and actually obeying them

(also if you think about it with the UBW path, would YOU continue to follow orders if one was to kill yourself) Not to mention he probably had a pride issue with the commands given to him at that time (using Tohsaka to summon the grail whom he seemed to like as you said before)

Thirdly in the fate path lancer had to fight between his pride and following orders, obviously his pride as a hero won :P
He probably thought of it as disgraceful to fight with Gilgamesh seeing as they were both heroes. Gilgamesh says it himself he would've done the same thing if Lancer didn't.
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Unread postby DarkEyes » May 4th, 2008, 11:14 am

DragoonKnight wrote:It would go through the shield without a problem, Rho Aias would do jack about that attack since the effect is already determined.
Since Lancer didn't know Archer had anything like Rho Aias he just used the thrown version and was like "WTF mate!?".


Yeah, that's pretty much what I think too =p Good to see there'r ppl here that agree =]



bob022 wrote:
(also if you think about it with the UBW path, would YOU continue to follow orders if one was to kill yourself) Not to mention he probably had a pride issue with the commands given to him at that time (using Tohsaka to summon the grail whom he seemed to like as you said before)

No, I wouldn't continue and neither did Lancer.. Besides, he also refused to obey the Tohsaka order..
And stabbed da shit out of Kotomine, that was like mah fav part of the route =]
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Unread postby skullreken » May 5th, 2008, 12:49 am

I agree Rho Aias is only effective against projectiles specifically spears
had it been if it had of been spear of imapaling barbed death instead of spear of striking death flight Rho Asia would have usless

To be honest I was surprised Rho Asia worked against spear of striking death flight (although if I remember right only one one pettal was left)
because from the legends I read as a kid, once Gae Bolg was thorwn it could not be stopped
when Cu Chullain met his best friend Ferdiad in mortal combat Ferdiad wore an apron of Iron 6 inches thick designed to deflect Gae Bolg
When Cu Chullain threw the spear at him it went straight through the Iron and once inside Ferdiad the spears curse activated
1000 Barbs grew from the spear head and ripped Ferdiad to pieces

Actually I would have loved if the game used the barbs like in the legends
it would have made spear of imapaling barbed death the most vicious noble phantasm
if not the coolest
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Unread postby Raitei » May 5th, 2008, 1:10 am

skullreken wrote:To be honest I was surprised Rho Asia worked against spear of striking death flight (although if I remember right only one one pettal was left)
because from the legends I read as a kid, once Gae Bolg was thorwn it could not be stopped
when Cu Chullain met his best friend Ferdiad in mortal combat Ferdiad wore an apron of Iron 6 inches thick designed to deflect Gae Bolg
When Cu Chullain threw the spear at him it went straight through the Iron and once inside Ferdiad the spears curse activated
1000 Barbs grew from the spear head and ripped Ferdiad to pieces

Actually I would have loved if the game used the barbs like in the legends
it would have made spear of imapaling barbed death the most vicious noble phantasm
if not the coolest
oh, so you're an Irish, then? ^^

but even rho aias wasn't able to defend against gae bolg; it was destroyed thoroughly. only the seventh layer resisted, before it was completely destroyed after it has stopped gae bolg.

even archer said that even though it was stopped, gae bolg still manages to destroy rho aias ( but couldn't penetrate it ).

still, all existing nps fall before ea. :lol:
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
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Unread postby skullreken » May 5th, 2008, 1:39 am

Fate and be garra yeh figured me out
now we must fight to the death! lol

you know one thing I find strange? with archer being Shiro and all
you think he would have learned from past experiences and made a stronger sheild
destroyed but not pemetrated it didn't get him but still thats cutting it a little fine
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Unread postby Raitei » May 5th, 2008, 1:52 am

skullreken wrote:you think he would have learned from past experiences and made a stronger sheild
destroyed but not pemetrated it didn't get him but still thats cutting it a little fine
he cannot "learn from past mistakes" ; his rho aias is a perfect copy of the original, downgraded by one rank.
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
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Unread postby skullreken » May 5th, 2008, 2:37 am

he cannot "learn from past mistakes"

I'm more than likely missing something here please fill me in
Archer's complexity really wrecks my head sometimes
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Unread postby BlackTornado » August 3rd, 2008, 12:22 pm

skullreken wrote:you know one thing I find strange? with archer being Shiro and all
you think he would have learned from past experiences and made a stronger sheild
destroyed but not pemetrated it didn't get him but still thats cutting it a little fine



This emiya shirou is not the one that became heroic spirit emiya. If i am not wrong, Archer came from an alternate world where shirou went on and became twisted like archer... IF archer cane from shirou he would have defeated himself when he was shirou and would know that he would be defeated. Well, that would be screwed up, and i believe that f/sn is quite well thought out esp with all this time distortion shit and i have yet been able to find faults with it
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Unread postby Einherjar » August 3rd, 2008, 6:14 pm

Kansho wrote:
DarkEyes wrote:@Wing
But dude, I just checked, he seriously does..
This is why one of my eyes is open.
I pull out a shield from the hill to block the oncoming Noble Phantasms----!

No, Kinoko said it,
the one who projected Rho Aias was Archer to protect Shirou. That "I" was refering to Archer, Shirou was so "out" chanting the lines that he didn't notice it. In UBW they were connected, and the text in that moment is mere symbolism. Shirou can't trace yet a seven layer Rho Aias by himself, he needs years of training.

That's official info explained in Fate/Side Material, not bullshit.


But it makes no sense. So all that "my body is broken" stuff is not by him??
Also, didn't Shirou trace Rho Aias in F/HA? :S
AND Why is Shirou not surprised at that shield in front of him? He didn't realize Archer until the end...

What's Nasu trying to archive?

EDIT: Why can't Shirou trace a full one? Is it because the lack of magical energy?
Last edited by Einherjar on August 3rd, 2008, 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby Kansho » August 3rd, 2008, 7:04 pm

Einherjar wrote:
Kansho wrote:
DarkEyes wrote:@Wing
But dude, I just checked, he seriously does..
[quote]
This is why one of my eyes is open.
I pull out a shield from the hill to block the oncoming Noble Phantasms----!

No, Kinoko said it,
the one who projected Rho Aias was Archer to protect Shirou. That "I" was refering to Archer, Shirou was so "out" chanting the lines that he didn't notice it. In UBW they were connected, and the text in that moment is mere symbolism. Shirou can't trace yet a seven layer Rho Aias by himself, he needs years of training.

That's official info explained in Fate/Side Material, not bullshit.


But it makes no sense. So all that "my body is broken" stuff is not by him??
Also, didn't Shirou trace Rho Aias in F/HA? :S
What's Nasu trying to archive?[/quote]Shirou only can trace a four-layer Rho Aias. That's what he trace in
HF (with his own arm) and HA.
見せかけの自分はそっと捨ててただありのままで
misekake no jibun ha sotto sutete tada ari no mama de -
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Unread postby password » August 4th, 2008, 5:52 pm

But is Shirou in HA really Shirou?
And UBW Lancer is really really cool alright. He's not the strongest servant, but he is definitely the coolest one, at least in UBW. Too bad he was just a pawn :(. I think he really really liked Rin, kinda sad that he had to die for not killing her but that proves his worth as a man.
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Unread postby Shikiller » August 5th, 2008, 1:29 am

can anyone gime the original text of somebody pulling Aius, so i can try a translation? i swear it must have been retconed because of a plot hole, the scene doesn't make any sense otherwise:

The Noble Phantams are set.
------------There are about 30 of them.
If i want to block them,i'll have to create it.

I will make it.
This is why one of the my eyes is open.
I pull out a shield from the hill to block the oncoming NP------!
"Guh---!"
The swarm of of swords batter against the shield.
The shield is me myself.
My body breaks up as each petal of the shield is pierced and damaged.
Blood trickes from my mouth.
Even though the NP did not reach me, my body is full of holes.

Shirou and Gil didn't notice or mention Archer at all?
And why is he surprised when he sees Archer at the end?
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Unread postby Einherjar » August 5th, 2008, 1:50 am

Shikiller wrote:can anyone gime the original text of somebody pulling Aius, so i can try a translation? i swear it must have been retconed because of a plot hole, the scene doesn't make any sense otherwise:

The Noble Phantams are set.
------------There are about 30 of them.
If i want to block them,i'll have to create it.

I will make it.
This is why one of the my eyes is open.
I pull out a shield from the hill to block the oncoming NP------!
"Guh---!"
The swarm of of swords batter against the shield.
The shield is me myself.
My body breaks up as each petal of the shield is pierced and damaged.
Blood trickes from my mouth.
Even though the NP did not reach me, my body is full of holes.

Shirou and Gil didn't notice or mention Archer at all?
And why is he surprised when he sees Archer at the end?


Exactly what I was saying. Maybe it's because at Shirou's level, it's not enough for him to block all that NPs with his Rho Aias. It totally destroyed the scene >_>
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Unread postby Raitei » August 5th, 2008, 2:35 am

Einherjar wrote:Exactly what I was saying. Maybe it's because at Shirou's level, it's not enough for him to block all that NPs with his Rho Aias. It totally destroyed the scene >_>
shirou can only produce four layered rho aias... as kansho said. some of the np rain were blocked by that, causing him internal wounds, just like when archer defended against lancer's gae bolg...
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
Fate/world providence
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Unread postby Einherjar » August 5th, 2008, 2:39 am

Raitei wrote:
Einherjar wrote:Exactly what I was saying. Maybe it's because at Shirou's level, it's not enough for him to block all that NPs with his Rho Aias. It totally destroyed the scene >_>
shirou can only produce four layered rho aias... as kansho said. some were blocked by that, causing him in ternal wounds, just like when archer defended against lancer's gae bolg...

I KNOW. Read my earlier posts please. -_-
Anyways, that is IF he used Rho Aias. But it seems Nasu said that Archer is the one that projected shield, thus making the scene even more confusing and totally destroyed it.
Maybe it's because Nasu noticed that there's no way a 4-layered Rho Aias can block that much (also, they're didn't even imply how many layers Shirou projected, although he has Rin's energy to do that), so he changed the person that projected to Nasu. That was my thought (which I thought I didn't need to specify).
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Unread postby Raitei » August 5th, 2008, 2:42 am

Einherjar wrote:
Raitei wrote:
Einherjar wrote:Exactly what I was saying. Maybe it's because at Shirou's level, it's not enough for him to block all that NPs with his Rho Aias. It totally destroyed the scene >_>
shirou can only produce four layered rho aias... as kansho said. some were blocked by that, causing him in ternal wounds, just like when archer defended against lancer's gae bolg...

I KNOW. Read my earlier post please. -_-
Anyways, that is IF he used Rho Aias. But it seems Nasu said that Archer is the one that projected shield, thus making the scene even more confusing and totally destroyed it.
"even though the np didn't reach me."

I was thinking of something along the line of rho aias projected by shirou, but broken. the rest of the nps were blocked by archer one. in dizziness, shirou might not have realized it was archer.
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
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Unread postby Einherjar » August 5th, 2008, 2:46 am

Raitei wrote:
Einherjar wrote:
Raitei wrote:[quote="Einherjar"]Exactly what I was saying. Maybe it's because at Shirou's level, it's not enough for him to block all that NPs with his Rho Aias. It totally destroyed the scene >_>
shirou can only produce four layered rho aias... as kansho said. some were blocked by that, causing him in ternal wounds, just like when archer defended against lancer's gae bolg...

I KNOW. Read my earlier post please. -_-
Anyways, that is IF he used Rho Aias. But it seems Nasu said that Archer is the one that projected shield, thus making the scene even more confusing and totally destroyed it.
"even though the np didn't reach me."

I was thinking of something along the line of rho aias projected by shirou, but broken. the rest of the nps were blocked by archer one. in dizziness, shirou might not have realized it was archer.[/quote]
That's a really good point. Solves all the plothole in the world. At least in that particular scene.
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