UBW Lancer

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UBW Lancer

Unread postby randomanon? » March 26th, 2008, 4:27 am

Discuss
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Unread postby Kiraiya » March 26th, 2008, 4:30 am

The epitome of GARness. I think that should cover everything.
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Re: UBW Lancer

Unread postby Gram49 » March 26th, 2008, 5:15 am

randomanon? wrote:Discuss


At least bring something to the table so that people can discuss lol. Anyone know what kinds of magic lancer can use? It talks a bit about how he was the only person to walk through the land of shadows and acquire all of the runes... Anyone care to elaborate on this?
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Unread postby Krescentwolf » March 26th, 2008, 5:35 am

Well.... um.... Archer says Lancers lance was stronger than the original Gungnir...
but how can Gae Bolg be stronger than the lance/javelin that belongs to a norse god?
Or for the matter.... does that mean Archer fought someone with Gungnir? /blink
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Unread postby Raitei » March 26th, 2008, 5:40 am

Krescentwolf wrote:Well.... um.... Archer says Lancers lance was stronger than the original Gungnir...
but how can Gae Bolg be stronger than the lance/javelin that belongs to a norse god?
Or for the matter.... does that mean Archer fought someone with Gungnir? /blink
erm, it was a typical explanation, I guess.
archer (I suppose) knows every weapon, be it polearms, swords, lances, daggers, and much more, and has a record for every weapon he has ever seen in his ubw. so he seems to know the strength and weaknesses of those weapons, and their histories.


sorry for the crude explanation, but that's the theory I have in mind.
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Unread postby inferno_flamex » March 26th, 2008, 8:25 am

Raitei wrote:
Krescentwolf wrote:Well.... um.... Archer says Lancers lance was stronger than the original Gungnir...
but how can Gae Bolg be stronger than the lance/javelin that belongs to a norse god?
Or for the matter.... does that mean Archer fought someone with Gungnir? /blink
erm, it was a typical explanation, I guess.
archer (I suppose) knows every weapon, be it polearms, swords, lances, daggers, and much more, and has a record for every weapon he has ever seen in his ubw. so he seems to know the strength and weaknesses of those weapons, and their histories.


sorry for the crude explanation, but that's the theory I have in mind.


okay... I am abit familiar about the legends of Gungnir and Gae Bolg(considering im doing a Gundam fan-manga where both spears are involved).

From what i know... Gungnir,
although a weapon for a Norse God. Its power/meaning is, The spear that always returns to the owner's hands. Think of it as an impaling boomarang of doom.


While Gae Bolg,
as you might have known by now, is the spear that ALWAYS hit its target. (and in other legends, it is the spear of a thousand impaling thorns)


Now if you understand that.. Then you can understand why technically, Gae Bolg > Gungnir.

With Gungnir you're able to...
throw an almost INFINITE times without even moving where you're from! But that is just that, its 'strength' is its 'continued ability to keep throwing' becase, like archer said... A lance is a weapon meant to be thrown.


But with Gae Bolg...
You are guaranteed A CRITICAL HIT. BUT JUST ONE. But that is all you need to actually 'kill' your opponent.

In that sense, Gae Bolg is only more powerful in terms of raw POWER.

However Gungnir is made legendary maybe because, its a GOD weilding it... God-abilities plus Gungnir's ability would surely make a massive death-bringer. So the Norse god would have no need for Gae Bolg.

Phew.. That's tiring... Now gimme a cookie for my efforts! XDDDD
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Unread postby ArthurPepper » March 26th, 2008, 9:48 am

After UBW I chance my vision about Lancer, he is realy a cool guy.

And a Martir
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Unread postby Raitei » March 26th, 2008, 9:57 am

I have just realized something... is it just my feelings, or...?
lancer is wearing earrings, right? erm, what I mean is, that earring looks pretty damn identical to the ones bazett are wearing.
did he took it from her (maybe as a memento) after she was killed by kirei, or what?

care to think of it?
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
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Unread postby Kansho » March 26th, 2008, 10:26 am

Raitei wrote:I have just realized something... is it just my feelings, or...?
lancer is wearing earrings, right? erm, what I mean is, that earring looks pretty damn identical to the ones bazett are wearing.
did he took it from her (maybe as a memento) after she was killed by kirei, or what?

care to think of it?
Yeah.
That's Bazett earrings. The catalyst in Lancer's summoning : P


And Gugnir thing.
Gugnir = Gae Bolg basis. Like Gram is Caliburn one.

So, seems that Lancer has obtained the full power of the lance, throwing it as a javelin instead of simply wield it.
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Unread postby Raitei » March 26th, 2008, 10:31 am

Kansho wrote:Yeah.
That's Bazett earrings. The catalyst in Lancer's summoning : P
a catalyst? isn't it originally hers? I mean I saw her wearing them in f/ha...
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
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Unread postby Kansho » March 26th, 2008, 10:33 am

Raitei wrote:
Kansho wrote:Yeah.
That's Bazett earrings. The catalyst in Lancer's summoning : P
a catalyst? isn't it originally hers? I mean I saw her wearing them in f/ha...
A family treasure. So, yes, is originally hers.
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Unread postby Raitei » March 26th, 2008, 10:35 am

Kansho wrote:
A family treasure. So, yes, is originally hers.
I see. a family heirloom, huh? so, maybe... she's related to cu chulainn?
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
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Unread postby aldeayeah » March 26th, 2008, 11:08 am

Krescentwolf wrote:Well.... um.... Archer says Lancers lance was stronger than the original Gungnir...
but how can Gae Bolg be stronger than the lance/javelin that belongs to a norse god?
Or for the matter.... does that mean Archer fought someone with Gungnir? /blink

The lance that Gil uses to finish off Berserker in the Winter Castle scene is Gungnir (or rather, its origin). Archer seems to know about all the weapons in Gil's vault.

About Lancer, he's totally awesome.

I think we all cheered for him when he bitchslapped that Shinji twit around.

Raitei wrote:
Kansho wrote:
A family treasure. So, yes, is originally hers.
I see. a family heirloom, huh? so, maybe... she's related to cu chulainn?

She's from an Irish family that has been around since legendary times, and her family has kept Cu Chulainn's earrings as a family relic until today. I don't know if her family is actually related by blood to Cu Chulainn (the subject is never brought up AFAIK), but considering the promiscuous nature of Irish myth, I wouldn't discard that possibility.
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Unread postby Atriel » March 26th, 2008, 6:08 pm

inferno_flamex wrote:From what i know... Gungnir,
although a weapon for a Norse God. Its power/meaning is, The spear that always returns to the owner's hands. Think of it as an impaling boomarang of doom.


Ummm...
You are confused... i think. Mjolnir (Thor's hammer) is the one that always returns to the owner's hands. Gungnir is supposed to ALWAYS hit its opponent. It never misses. That's why they are compared... i suppose.



ED: Oh yeah, Lancer was amazing in this route.
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Unread postby WingZero » March 26th, 2008, 8:04 pm

Krescentwolf wrote:Well.... um.... Archer says Lancers lance was stronger than the original Gungnir...
but how can Gae Bolg be stronger than the lance/javelin that belongs to a norse god?
Or for the matter.... does that mean Archer fought someone with Gungnir? /blink


Yes, it means he has at one point fought against Gungnir.

Evidently, he would know it if he only saw it, but he said and/or implied something like "Gae bolg pierced through the unpenetrable defense (Rho Aias), meaning it was stronger than Gungnir (which did not pierce through Rho Aias)."

And to quote/paraphrase one of the points in Archer's entry on Fuyuki Wiki:

"Had an encounter with Gungnir at one point" <- That's probably the most accurate way to put it.
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Unread postby Raitei » March 26th, 2008, 10:02 pm

WingZero wrote:
Yes, it means he has at one point fought against Gungnir.

Evidently, he would know it if he only saw it, but he said and/or implied something like "Gae bolg pierced through the unpenetrable defense (Rho Aias), meaning it was stronger than Gungnir (which did not pierce through Rho Aias)."

And to quote/paraphrase one of the points in Archer's entry on Fuyuki Wiki:

"Had an encounter with Gungnir at one point" <- That's probably the most accurate way to put it.
don't forget that
shirou / archer can understand every concept of a weapon the moment he sees it. ( its creation, powers, weaknesses, etc, etc... )

so he doesn't need to have ever fought against a weapon in order to know its power.

if you read between the lines, in tge end of ubw was implied that the only weapon that he wasn't able to understand the concept is ea
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
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Unread postby DarkEyes » March 26th, 2008, 10:25 pm

OK lessee..
If not for Shirou, Lancer could've KAR STABBED! ! ! Archer in the very beginning, if not for Kotomine's damn orders Saber would've been owned too... If Lancer wasn't such a good guy, Kotomine wouldn't have forced him to kill himself... So.. Any1 else wanna blame the E luck?
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Unread postby WingZero » March 26th, 2008, 10:36 pm

Raitei wrote:
WingZero wrote:
Yes, it means he has at one point fought against Gungnir.

Evidently, he would know it if he only saw it, but he said and/or implied something like "Gae bolg pierced through the unpenetrable defense (Rho Aias), meaning it was stronger than Gungnir (which did not pierce through Rho Aias)."

And to quote/paraphrase one of the points in Archer's entry on Fuyuki Wiki:

"Had an encounter with Gungnir at one point" <- That's probably the most accurate way to put it.
don't forget that
shirou / archer can understand every concept of a weapon the moment he sees it. ( its creation, powers, weaknesses, etc, etc... )

so he doesn't need to have ever fought against a weapon in order to know its power.

if you read between the lines, in tge end of ubw was implied that the only weapon that he wasn't able to understand the concept is ea


How did I forget it? Read my second paragraph again.

Just seeing Gungrir means nothing beyond that he can trace and use it efficiently. He implied / stated that Gae Bolg was able to penetrate what Gungrir was not. (Also: Is there any reason Archer would compare Gae Bolg to Gungrir and not another spear / Noble Phantasm that he has "seen"?)

I don't think anything in any of the routes ever stated that he can look at a weapon, assign a numerical value of "power" to it, and then compare it with another weapon to come up with which one is superior.

I also don't think anything in:
1) concept of creation
2) experience
3) phantasmic ability
4) material composition
5) anything else I might have missed
directly comes out to, as you put it, "its power".

If he COULD tell how powerful a weapon is just by looking and come to a conclusion of which one is stronger when comparing two weapons, then he would've known all along that Gae Bolg > Gungnir, which he did NOT because he went "I can't believe it, that was my best defense too", etc. etc.

Of course, all of this is speculation, which is why I said "encountered Gungrir at one point" is the most accurate way to put it.
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Unread postby Zarxs » March 26th, 2008, 11:01 pm

I do believe I posted my thoughts about Lancer in another thread *surfs through forums* Ah here we are.
Zarxs wrote:Lancer was awesome in the little part he played in Fate and now is even awesomer..er in the part he played in UBW. It is like awesome + awesomenesseriss and than you would divide that by Lancer, this equation of course comes out to Lancer = mini Jesus
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Unread postby Undream » March 27th, 2008, 12:09 am

WingZero wrote:
Raitei wrote:
WingZero wrote:
Yes, it means he has at one point fought against Gungnir.

Evidently, he would know it if he only saw it, but he said and/or implied something like "Gae bolg pierced through the unpenetrable defense (Rho Aias), meaning it was stronger than Gungnir (which did not pierce through Rho Aias)."

And to quote/paraphrase one of the points in Archer's entry on Fuyuki Wiki:

"Had an encounter with Gungnir at one point" <- That's probably the most accurate way to put it.
don't forget that
shirou / archer can understand every concept of a weapon the moment he sees it. ( its creation, powers, weaknesses, etc, etc... )

so he doesn't need to have ever fought against a weapon in order to know its power.

if you read between the lines, in tge end of ubw was implied that the only weapon that he wasn't able to understand the concept is ea


How did I forget it? Read my second paragraph again.

Just seeing Gungrir means nothing beyond that he can trace and use it efficiently. He implied / stated that Gae Bolg was able to penetrate what Gungrir was not. (Also: Is there any reason Archer would compare Gae Bolg to Gungrir and not another spear / Noble Phantasm that he has "seen"?)

I don't think anything in any of the routes ever stated that he can look at a weapon, assign a numerical value of "power" to it, and then compare it with another weapon to come up with which one is superior.

I also don't think anything in:
1) concept of creation
2) experience
3) phantasmic ability
4) material composition
5) anything else I might have missed
directly comes out to, as you put it, "its power".

If he COULD tell how powerful a weapon is just by looking and come to a conclusion of which one is stronger when comparing two weapons, then he would've known all along that Gae Bolg > Gungnir, which he did NOT because he went "I can't believe it, that was my best defense too", etc. etc.

Of course, all of this is speculation, which is why I said "encountered Gungrir at one point" is the most accurate way to put it.


Isnt knowing the material composition required for tracing? and is said archer can trace any weapon he sees so....
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