UBW Lancer

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WingZero
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Unread post by WingZero » March 27th, 2008, 1:24 am

@ Undream:
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*edit*

Thanks to Twilight for proving my earlier point.
Last edited by WingZero on March 27th, 2008, 1:26 am, edited 2 times in total.

twilightlegacy
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Unread post by twilightlegacy » March 27th, 2008, 1:25 am

i remember that the Rho Aias was considered a impenetrable defense because:
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Of course, my sources could be wrong.

rastilin
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Unread post by rastilin » March 27th, 2008, 5:52 am

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A.R.C.C.
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Unread post by A.R.C.C. » March 31st, 2008, 10:08 am

The Spear of Lugh, one of the four legendary national treasures of Ireland but seperate from Gae Bolg, is a spear that always strikes its target and always returns to its owner's hand, by a word of command. That much I do know. It belonged to the Irish god Lugh, and was brought to Ireland from one of the fairyland-type realms with the Tuatha de Danaan. It was called the "Blazing Spear" and had to be kept with its head in the Daghda's Cauldron (another of the four treasures) to keep from scorching its surroundings.
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Raitei
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Unread post by Raitei » March 31st, 2008, 10:31 am

A.R.C.C. wrote:The Spear of Lugh, one of the four legendary national treasures of Ireland but seperate from Gae Bolg, is a spear that always strikes its target and always returns to its owner's hand, by a word of command. That much I do know. It belonged to the Irish god Lugh, and was brought to Ireland from one of the fairyland-type realms with the Tuatha de Danaan. It was called the "Blazing Spear" and had to be kept with its head in the Daghda's Cauldron (another of the four treasures) to keep from scorching its surroundings.
ahh, I see. no wonder someone could confuse it with gae bolg; they're both from the same origin :P

oh, btw, my memory seems a little vague, so here's the question : where did lancer stabbed himself when kotomine ordered him to commit suicide? I wonder why didn't he die in an instant if gae bolg pierced his heart... then again,
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edit : oh, just remembered that lugh is actually cu chulainn's father. :P
Last edited by Raitei on March 31st, 2008, 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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kerogoth
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Unread post by kerogoth » March 31st, 2008, 11:05 am

Easy, Lancer has Battle Continuation rank A, which allows for battle even on the verge of death.

Qaenyin Angelblade
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Unread post by Qaenyin Angelblade » March 31st, 2008, 6:38 pm

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Unread post by Voidlugiron » April 1st, 2008, 12:49 pm

twilightlegacy wrote:i remember that the Rho Aias was considered a impenetrable defense because:
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Of course, my sources could be wrong.
It states in the first fight between Saber and Lancer that Gae Bolg has some reverse circumstances effect where it will alter any parameters in order for the spear to hit. Doesn't that mean even if the projection was perfect Rho Aias wouldn't have a chance to begin with?

Raitei
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Unread post by Raitei » April 1st, 2008, 1:23 pm

the nature of gae Bolg : impaling barbed death and gae bolg : striking death flight are way different.

imagine a sniper rifle and a grenade gun, where gae bolg : impaling barbed death is the sniper rifle, and gae bolg : striking death flight is the grenade gun. one focuses on the accuracy, while the other concentrates only on raw attack power.
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Yazan Kiriel
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Unread post by Yazan Kiriel » April 1st, 2008, 2:10 pm

Raitei wrote:the nature of gae Bolg : impaling barbed death and gae bolg : striking death flight are way different.

imagine a sniper rifle and a grenade gun, where gae bolg : impaling barbed death is the sniper rifle, and gae bolg : striking death flight is the grenade gun. one focuses on the accuracy, while the other concentrates only on raw attack power.
Eh, a grenade launcher might be a bad comparison, a missile would probably fit it better. Like described in Fate, unlike Gung-nir what could return back to the user, Gae Bolg thrown is a one shot missile.

twilightlegacy
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Unread post by twilightlegacy » April 2nd, 2008, 3:14 am

Voidlugiron wrote:
twilightlegacy wrote:i remember that the Rho Aias was considered a impenetrable defense because:
► Show Spoiler
Of course, my sources could be wrong.
It states in the first fight between Saber and Lancer that Gae Bolg has some reverse circumstances effect where it will alter any parameters in order for the spear to hit. Doesn't that mean even if the projection was perfect Rho Aias wouldn't have a chance to begin with?
What you said about the Gae Bolg is true. However, if i'm remembering correctly, the Rho Aias is an absolute defense that is suppose to block ANY attack. The difference between the Rho Aias and Avalon is that Avalon is the embodiment of the Utopia of kings, equivalent to the true magics; therefore it forms a defense making the user untouchable. Anyways, the situation is: Gae bolg will always strikes its target while the Rho Aias will always completely blocks against any attack.

So um...how should i say this. they kind of cancel out? :? It's definitely an odd situation.

Also I mentioned before that the traced Rho Aias is not perfect in comparison to the original. However, that is irrelevant in this situation. Since it is a conceptual weapon, it always carries out the effect of the original. Just as a theoretical example to illustrate lets say the copy Rho Aias is made out of wood rather than metal or whatever the real one is composed of. However, the effect of the true Rho Aias is that it always blocks attacks. Therefore, although the wooden one is weak it still is a Rho aias (albeit inferior); therefore it will still perform the designated function of the original - in this case, it is to block attacks.

That would explain why Archer can actually trace and effectively use the Rho Aias although his affinity is swords. He doesn't need to create a nearly identical copy of the Rho Aias; instead he just needs an inferior version that still produces the desired effect.

However, as i stated before, my sources could be inaccurate.

Brizzle
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Unread post by Brizzle » April 2nd, 2008, 3:32 am

Rho Aias has absolute defense against thrown weapons, not all attacks. Still, Gae Bolg nearly defeats it.
http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Rho_Aias
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inferno_flamex
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Unread post by inferno_flamex » April 2nd, 2008, 4:02 am

twilightlegacy wrote:That would explain why Archer can actually trace and effectively use the Rho Aias although his affinity is swords. He doesn't need to create a nearly identical copy of the Rho Aias; instead he just needs an inferior version that still produces the desired effect.
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bob022
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Unread post by bob022 » May 3rd, 2008, 8:22 pm

I thought lancer was freaking awesome UBW route as well
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DarkEyes
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Unread post by DarkEyes » May 3rd, 2008, 8:41 pm

Brizzle wrote:Gae Bolg nearly defeats it.
GB does defeat it, otherwise Archer's arm wouldn't have almost been ripped off and his body wouldn't have been wounded =]

Btw, I just noticed something.. From http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Rho_Aias
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bob022 wrote:I thought lancer was freaking awesome UBW route as well
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Where the hell did u get idea?
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Last edited by DarkEyes on May 3rd, 2008, 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

WingZero
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Unread post by WingZero » May 3rd, 2008, 8:46 pm

@ Dark:

No he doesn't.

uriel
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Unread post by uriel » May 3rd, 2008, 8:49 pm

bob022 wrote:I thought lancer was freaking awesome UBW route as well
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DarkEyes
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Unread post by DarkEyes » May 3rd, 2008, 8:57 pm

Does everyone not notice Archer's damn arm barely being attached and him being wounded all over? What do u think would've happened if Lancer continued the fight?
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@Wing
But dude, I just checked, he seriously does..
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Kansho
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Unread post by Kansho » May 3rd, 2008, 9:44 pm

DarkEyes wrote:@Wing
But dude, I just checked, he seriously does..
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No, Kinoko said it,
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Last edited by Kansho on May 3rd, 2008, 9:50 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Unread post by chasmirror » May 3rd, 2008, 9:47 pm

Okay, first, Rho Aias is the ultimate defence against any THROWN attacks or weapons.
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It is not certain that Archer had experienced Gungnir firsthand. He might have, might have not. But even if he didn't, it wouldn't be so far off to think that Archer could somehow deduce it. Gungnir does not have the destruction power that Gae Bolg has, mainly because unlike Gungnir, which is an Anti-unit weapon, Gae Bolg is an Anti-army weapon. Strictly speaking of destructive power, the order goes: Anti-star(Escalibur is included here) > Anti-army > Anti-unit, regardless of their ranks.
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