What kind of servant could you be?

It's alright, we feel your pain. Noone wants to admit being gar for Berserker.

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Your IDEAL Servent Class.

Saber
23
17%
Archer
25
19%
Lancer
15
11%
Caster
24
18%
Assassin
17
13%
Rider
4
3%
Berserker
13
10%
Avenger
11
8%
 
Total votes : 132

Unread postby Rikh » September 9th, 2008, 8:40 pm

Raitei wrote:actually, not the grail, but legends and fame are the ones which give heroic spirits their power boost. hence why counter guardians are generally weaker than normal heroic spirits who became heroes by their own power. because they are "faceless" heroes. only counter forces used as eternal slaves by alaya.

so it's not the grail, but your own fame. also,the summoning ground must be taken into account. explains why cu chulainn was weaker than if he was summoned in ireland.


so...
Emiya is a counter guardian, which is already an established fact. Does he gain a significant power boost due to a situation at hand?
Example: World is on a ticking bomb, and emiya is summoned to defeat an army. Would he be significantly stronger than in the HF summoning? Also would normal heroes (example: cu chullen... however its spelt) be summoned as well for events such as that? or are they free from being a guardian.
Also wouldnt emiya's exploits in the future enable him to be a hero? if so, he probably didnt make the cutoff though.. i was pretty sure to be a hero, you had to do something out of reach for normal humans
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Unread postby Raitei » September 9th, 2008, 11:11 pm

Rikh wrote:so...
Emiya is a counter guardian, which is already an established fact. Does he gain a significant power boost due to a situation at hand?
Example: World is on a ticking bomb, and emiya is summoned to defeat an army. Would he be significantly stronger than in the HF summoning? Also would normal heroes (example: cu chullen... however its spelt) be summoned as well for events such as that? or are they free from being a guardian.
Also wouldnt emiya's exploits in the future enable him to be a hero? if so, he probably didnt make the cutoff though.. i was pretty sure to be a hero, you had to do something out of reach for normal humans
nope. that's why he got crappy status in f/sn. EMIYA is just one of the numerous counter guardians. the world has its own way of protecting humanity.

normal heroes won't ever be summoned in situations like that. they're not bound to a contract with the world, as they became heroes by their own power. also, that's the point. he wanted to be a hero, but apparently, what he did wasn't enough for him to be a true hero. so he forged a contract with the world. it's as simple as that.
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
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Unread postby Rikh » September 10th, 2008, 1:34 am

Raitei wrote:
Rikh wrote:so...
Emiya is a counter guardian, which is already an established fact. Does he gain a significant power boost due to a situation at hand?
Example: World is on a ticking bomb, and emiya is summoned to defeat an army. Would he be significantly stronger than in the HF summoning? Also would normal heroes (example: cu chullen... however its spelt) be summoned as well for events such as that? or are they free from being a guardian.
Also wouldnt emiya's exploits in the future enable him to be a hero? if so, he probably didnt make the cutoff though.. i was pretty sure to be a hero, you had to do something out of reach for normal humans
nope. that's why he got crappy status in f/sn. EMIYA is just one of the numerous counter guardians. the world has its own way of protecting humanity.

normal heroes won't ever be summoned in situations like that. they're not bound to a contract with the world, as they became heroes by their own power. also, that's the point. he wanted to be a hero, but apparently, what he did wasn't enough for him to be a true hero. so he forged a contract with the world. it's as simple as that.

So shiro has failed at achieving his goal even though he worked his whole life to do it... Well... thats just sad there. You see him in most of fate and UBW proclaiming he will, but apparently not so
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Unread postby Keeper of Gil's Vault » September 10th, 2008, 2:45 am

Well, do remember Archer is the result of only one of the infinite number of potential futures for Emiya Shirou. So the possibility for Emiya Shirou to become a heroic spirit is there, especially considering UBW Shirou learned to deploy UBW much earlier than Archer and he was more skilled at projection than Archer at the same age (Kansho & Byakuya etc.). However, the counter argument is that, if Shirou did succeed in becoming a heroic spirit, why is the Emiya Shirou in the throne of heroes the bitter counter guardian Archer, instead of a true heroic Emiya. Maybe a hero Emiya is there, but the counter guardian Emiya got summoned because of his stronger ties to Rin and his determination to slay himself. We do not know if any of these conjectures are true until Nasu says so.
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Unread postby Raitei » September 10th, 2008, 4:58 am

Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:
Well, do remember Archer is the result of only one of the infinite number of potential futures for Emiya Shirou. So the possibility for Emiya Shirou to become a heroic spirit is there, especially considering UBW Shirou learned to deploy UBW much earlier than Archer and he was more skilled at projection than Archer at the same age (Kansho & Byakuya etc.). However, the counter argument is that, if Shirou did succeed in becoming a heroic spirit, why is the Emiya Shirou in the throne of heroes the bitter counter guardian Archer, instead of a true heroic Emiya. Maybe a hero Emiya is there, but the counter guardian Emiya got summoned because of his stronger ties to Rin and his determination to slay himself. We do not know if any of these conjectures are true until Nasu says so.
I don't think that's the case. if so, why would there be only one version for each hero (yes, true. that's why saber is arturia. not a male arthur.)? regardless the future and unlimited possibilities, there is only one entity for each hero, that's what I believe.
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I'm an agent of chaos."
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Unread postby Keeper of Gil's Vault » September 11th, 2008, 3:01 am

@Raitei,
Sabre is not a great example to illustrate this point. As we know, Sabre is a very, very special case. She got summoned because of a contract with the world prior to her death, namely "in exchange for a chance to obtain the Grail and undo the selection of the king, she would become a servant of the World". There was a pretty comprehensive discussion in Beast's Lair about this, the conclusion, which makes a lot of sense, was that after the end of the Fate route, if anyone were to summon King Arthur, the male legendary version would come forth every single time instead of Arturia, because Sabre's contract had ended (she destroyed the Grail and seeked it no further). The version in the popular legend always wins in a summon, even if the other version is the TRUE identity.

And yes, I have deviated so far away from the topic I don't even know how to go back now... Regarding Emiya, if your theory is true, then Archer is a fusion of all the possible outcomes of Shirou? Mmmm, that would imply that in most of the potential futures, Shirou would end up as Archer. I admit I see nothing worng with this theory, but eh, poor Archer, is there no possibility for you to become a true hero that is loved?

Edit: Wait wait, Archer can't be a fusion of all the potential Shirou's. He has a specific set of memories, which means he is the result of ONE timeline. If he is the sole version of Emiya in the throne, that means NONE of the Shirou's became a hero, not even counter guardian. Now this possibility is even more tragic. Someone tell me I am wrong...
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Unread postby Rikh » September 11th, 2008, 3:24 am

Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:
@Raitei,
Sabre is not a great example to illustrate this point. As we know, Sabre is a very, very special case. She got summoned because of a contract with the world prior to her death, namely "in exchange for a chance to obtain the Grail and undo the selection of the king, she would become a servant of the World". There was a pretty comprehensive discussion in Beast's Lair about this, the conclusion, which makes a lot of sense, was that after the end of the Fate route, if anyone were to summon King Arthur, the male legendary version would come forth every single time instead of Arturia, because Sabre's contract had ended (she destroyed the Grail and seeked it no further). The version in the popular legend always wins in a summon, even if the other version is the TRUE identity.

And yes, I have deviated so far away from the topic I don't even know how to go back now... Regarding Emiya, if your theory is true, then Archer is a fusion of all the possible outcomes of Shirou? Mmmm, that would imply that in most of the potential futures, Shirou would end up as Archer. I admit I see nothing worng with this theory, but eh, poor Archer, is there no possibility for you to become a true hero that is loved?

Edit: Wait wait, Archer can't be a fusion of all the potential Shirou's. He has a specific set of memories, which means he is the result of ONE timeline. If he is the sole version of Emiya in the throne, that means NONE of the Shirou's became a hero, not even counter guardian. Now this possibility is even more tragic. Someone tell me I am wrong...


Seeing as
How shiro could destory the holy grail, defeat the heroic spirit hercules/Emiya/Gilgamesh with his own abilities, he can definitely become a true heroic spirit in time. As one of the main requirements is to do something impossible for an ordinary human. Defeating Hercules, stopping a city wide disaster, killing/defeating his future self, and beating the king of heroes in armed combat is pretty up in the lines for near impossibility. UBW shirou has the strongest outcome to be a heroic spirit imho, he gained the power of a reality marble at the age of 17-18, which is close enough to legendary.
still for him to be a hero, he has to also be somewhat known. If he selflessly saves others without gratitude (like his former CG self) then he wont even develop the fame required to become one...
at least its what i think..
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Unread postby Keeper of Gil's Vault » September 11th, 2008, 3:36 am

@Rikh,
Correct or not, I took consolation from this, appreciate it, ahaha.
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Unread postby Inverted » September 11th, 2008, 6:26 am

Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:
@Raitei,
Sabre is not a great example to illustrate this point. As we know, Sabre is a very, very special case. She got summoned because of a contract with the world prior to her death, namely "in exchange for a chance to obtain the Grail and undo the selection of the king, she would become a servant of the World". There was a pretty comprehensive discussion in Beast's Lair about this, the conclusion, which makes a lot of sense, was that after the end of the Fate route, if anyone were to summon King Arthur, the male legendary version would come forth every single time instead of Arturia, because Sabre's contract had ended (she destroyed the Grail and seeked it no further). The version in the popular legend always


Not really atleast recently the concensess on beast lair seems to be that only the True identity can be summoned. Legends and fame can add or subtract power but they cannot alter the base property of the souls itself .Heroic spirits appear as they were in their prime .Otherwise we would have monstrous Medusa not a beautiful woman .A male Arthur is purely fictional hero in Nasuverse .For him be summoned rules would have to be broken ,as happened with Sasaki Kojirou, and even then it would some nameless wraith taking his position as in Nasuverse Male Arthur does not exist . In nasuverse if you summon Arthur you can only summon Arturia .


Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:
Edit: Wait wait, Archer can't be a fusion of all the potential Shirou's. He has a specific set of memories, which means he is the result of ONE timeline. If he is the sole version of Emiya in the throne, that means NONE of the Shirou's became a hero, not even counter guardian. Now this possibility is even more tragic. Someone tell me I am wrong...

This is what I make of it :
The Heroic Spirit CG Emiya Shirou in the Throne of Heroes is fusion of all Emiya Shirou's . However Archer is only a product of only one timeline . To avoid contradictions only one version of Emiya Shirou was sent as Archer (from alternate timeline too to avoid time paradox as he was summoned when he was still alive) .So he will have only his memories not of other Shirou's from other timelines .IMO These guys were unlucky to get one who regretted his path . They could have even gotten a version which didn't regret his path .Though this guy's desire was more.
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Unread postby Raitei » September 11th, 2008, 7:07 am

Inverted wrote:
Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:
@Raitei,
Sabre is not a great example to illustrate this point. As we know, Sabre is a very, very special case. She got summoned because of a contract with the world prior to her death, namely "in exchange for a chance to obtain the Grail and undo the selection of the king, she would become a servant of the World". There was a pretty comprehensive discussion in Beast's Lair about this, the conclusion, which makes a lot of sense, was that after the end of the Fate route, if anyone were to summon King Arthur, the male legendary version would come forth every single time instead of Arturia, because Sabre's contract had ended (she destroyed the Grail and seeked it no further). The version in the popular legend always


Not really atleast recently the concensess on beast lair seems to be that only the True identity can be summoned. Legends and fame can add or subtract power but they cannot alter the base property of the souls itself .Heroic spirits appear as they were in their prime .Otherwise we would have monstrous Medusa not a beautiful woman .A male Arthur is purely fictional hero in Nasuverse .For him be summoned rules would have to be broken ,as happened with Sasaki Kojirou, and even then it would some nameless wraith taking his position as in Nasuverse Male Arthur does not exist . In nasuverse if you summon Arthur you can only summon Arturia .


Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:
Edit: Wait wait, Archer can't be a fusion of all the potential Shirou's. He has a specific set of memories, which means he is the result of ONE timeline. If he is the sole version of Emiya in the throne, that means NONE of the Shirou's became a hero, not even counter guardian. Now this possibility is even more tragic. Someone tell me I am wrong...

This is what I make of it :
The Heroic Spirit CG Emiya Shirou in the Throne of Heroes is fusion of all Emiya Shirou's . However Archer is only a product of only one timeline . To avoid contradictions only one version of Emiya Shirou was sent as Archer (from alternate timeline too to avoid time paradox as he was summoned when he was still alive) .So he will have only his memories not of other Shirou's from other timelines .IMO These guys were unlucky to get one who regretted his path . They could have even gotten a version which didn't regret his path .Though this guy's desire was more.
^what he said. :P
(damn, too late. :P )
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
Fate/world providence
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Unread postby Rikh » September 11th, 2008, 9:03 pm

Raitei wrote:
Inverted wrote:
Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:
@Raitei,
Sabre is not a great example to illustrate this point. As we know, Sabre is a very, very special case. She got summoned because of a contract with the world prior to her death, namely "in exchange for a chance to obtain the Grail and undo the selection of the king, she would become a servant of the World". There was a pretty comprehensive discussion in Beast's Lair about this, the conclusion, which makes a lot of sense, was that after the end of the Fate route, if anyone were to summon King Arthur, the male legendary version would come forth every single time instead of Arturia, because Sabre's contract had ended (she destroyed the Grail and seeked it no further). The version in the popular legend always


Not really atleast recently the concensess on beast lair seems to be that only the True identity can be summoned. Legends and fame can add or subtract power but they cannot alter the base property of the souls itself .Heroic spirits appear as they were in their prime .Otherwise we would have monstrous Medusa not a beautiful woman .A male Arthur is purely fictional hero in Nasuverse .For him be summoned rules would have to be broken ,as happened with Sasaki Kojirou, and even then it would some nameless wraith taking his position as in Nasuverse Male Arthur does not exist . In nasuverse if you summon Arthur you can only summon Arturia .


Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:
Edit: Wait wait, Archer can't be a fusion of all the potential Shirou's. He has a specific set of memories, which means he is the result of ONE timeline. If he is the sole version of Emiya in the throne, that means NONE of the Shirou's became a hero, not even counter guardian. Now this possibility is even more tragic. Someone tell me I am wrong...

This is what I make of it :
The Heroic Spirit CG Emiya Shirou in the Throne of Heroes is fusion of all Emiya Shirou's . However Archer is only a product of only one timeline . To avoid contradictions only one version of Emiya Shirou was sent as Archer (from alternate timeline too to avoid time paradox as he was summoned when he was still alive) .So he will have only his memories not of other Shirou's from other timelines .IMO These guys were unlucky to get one who regretted his path . They could have even gotten a version which didn't regret his path .Though this guy's desire was more.
^what he said. :P
(damn, too late. :P )


Nasu is attempting to unravel the theory of multiple universes through his novels me-thinks....

hmm, well it could be viewed like this

Archer came back in time from the true future of Shiro. Since he is already a CG he will not change since he is gone from the time axis. Going to the fifth war and supporting/fighting shiro made shiros future change. The change in the future already removed the normal future Emiya, but CG Emiya remained due to possible paradox's and also being removed from the timeline. Whether shiro becomes a heroic spirit or not, he cannot be summoned into the 5th war, since his other counter part was already summoned there.
Multiple heroes of the same type probably can exist, but they are most likely not allowed to participate against each other (especially within their own timeline i bet..)

Just a thought
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Unread postby Zensunni » September 11th, 2008, 9:28 pm

This discussion is as off-topic as it is interesting. But I think Archer's situation proves that...

Anyone can become a servant through being a CG. In fact, if you have even one possible future where you might receive some power and make a contract, you just need some kind of strong link to the site of a holy grail war and it's very possible that you will be summoned.

And about Archer...I wonder if the Fate route Archer is the same as UBW Archer? Based on what you guys were talking about, it could be a different version that isn't so bent on killing himself. Or it could be the same one, but he realises that this is the Shirou who is supposed to liberate Saber and so shouldn't be messed with.
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Unread postby inferno_flamex » September 11th, 2008, 9:49 pm

Zensunni wrote:This discussion is as off-topic as it is interesting. But I think Archer's situation proves that...

Anyone can become a servant through being a CG. In fact, if you have even one possible future where you might receive some power and make a contract, you just need some kind of strong link to the site of a holy grail war and it's very possible that you will be summoned.

And about Archer...I wonder if the Fate route Archer is the same as UBW Archer? Based on what you guys were talking about, it could be a different version that isn't so bent on killing himself. Or it could be the same one, but he realises that this is the Shirou who is supposed to liberate Saber and so shouldn't be messed with.


im not so sure about Fate Archer... Because my memory of him is abit foggy at best... So i wont comment on him if he was a different one from UBW, or not...

But i highly believe that the Archer of the FSN Anime is that of Archer UBW, who happens to find out that, and i quote...

Archer during fight against Berserker wrote: "Humph... And here i thought that i was willing to throw them away..." he remembers the time he had spent with Shirou and Rin... As if he knows that his fight against Berserker would be his last, and what he sees before him was his life memories flashing before him.
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Unread postby Rikh » September 12th, 2008, 10:54 pm

inferno_flamex wrote:
Zensunni wrote:This discussion is as off-topic as it is interesting. But I think Archer's situation proves that...

Anyone can become a servant through being a CG. In fact, if you have even one possible future where you might receive some power and make a contract, you just need some kind of strong link to the site of a holy grail war and it's very possible that you will be summoned.

And about Archer...I wonder if the Fate route Archer is the same as UBW Archer? Based on what you guys were talking about, it could be a different version that isn't so bent on killing himself. Or it could be the same one, but he realises that this is the Shirou who is supposed to liberate Saber and so shouldn't be messed with.


im not so sure about Fate Archer... Because my memory of him is abit foggy at best... So i wont comment on him if he was a different one from UBW, or not...

But i highly believe that the Archer of the FSN Anime is that of Archer UBW, who happens to find out that, and i quote...

Archer during fight against Berserker wrote: "Humph... And here i thought that i was willing to throw them away..." he remembers the time he had spent with Shirou and Rin... As if he knows that his fight against Berserker would be his last, and what he sees before him was his life memories flashing before him.


Well...
Thats cause shiro didn't piss him off too much in that anime =P if he had been heroic one too many times... we might have seen a UBW themed anime going on... UBW anime would rock, a HF anime might be pretty good too, but i havnt played that route to know. I wish they followed UBW, we could see shiro fight gilgamesh and archer XD
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Unread postby Keeper of Gil's Vault » September 14th, 2008, 8:02 pm

@Inverted,
Comparing Kojirou to Sabre is not a sound argument. Kojirou is a fictional servant because he has NO factual basis at all. There is no historical record, the person does not exist. King Arthur, on the other hand, exists, be it male or female. However, if after the Grail War, someone were to summon King Arthur, the male version would come forth. This is because people believe Arthur is male (due to Sabre's disguise/boyish visage or whatever the reason), and many people accepted. The historical record has Arthur as male, and that is what people at Shirou's time believed. Because heroic spirits are the crystallization of mankind's wishes, the most accepted version will result, so the male Arthur will be summoned. Shirou encountered Sabre because his catalyst is the true Avalon and also Sabre's contract with the world, the tie is just too strong.

Edit: I would picture the male Arthur to be a bishonen who looks identical to Sabre, and probably has identical skill sets.
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Unread postby Raitei » September 14th, 2008, 11:16 pm

Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:@Inverted,
Comparing Kojirou to Sabre is not a sound argument. Kojirou is a fictional servant because he has NO factual basis at all. There is no historical record, the person does not exist. King Arthur, on the other hand, exists, be it male or female. However, if after the Grail War, someone were to summon King Arthur, the male version would come forth. This is because people believe Arthur is male (due to Sabre's disguise/boyish visage or whatever the reason), and many people accepted. The historical record has Arthur as male, and that is what people at Shirou's time believed. Because heroic spirits are the crystallization of mankind's wishes, the most accepted version will result, so the male Arthur will be summoned. Shirou encountered Sabre because his catalyst is the true Avalon and also Sabre's contract with the world, the tie is just too strong.

Edit: I would picture the male Arthur to be a bishonen who looks identical to Sabre, and probably has identical skill sets.
belief can affect a heroic spirit, but it can't go too far from the basis. yes, there is a basis for every hero. otherwise, angra mainyu would be a full fledged god instead of an "evil incarnation" heroic spirit. the argument "no female arthur will be summoned again after 5th war" is just but a baseless fan argument.

fuyuki wiki wrote:Normally, Heroic Spirits are summoned as pure power. Receiving a form and a mind similar to what they were back when they were alive is limited only to the Fuyuki Grail War. Generally when Heroic Spirits are summoned, they're used in Kuchiyose or oracles (as in power is channeled through a medium who then makes prophetic statements or what not).
and tell me, has anyone ever summoned a full-formed heroic spirit outside the fuyuki grail war?
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Unread postby Thanateros » September 15th, 2008, 4:57 am

Let's see... I say i would fit into the "caster" archetype, even though i would prefer the "assassin" one for coolness, sex appeal, and emo value.

At least to be a failed one is not too much of a stretch. While i do not ask the eventual reader to believe in what we call, as a whole, "The Occult" i have been researching and studying it, with various levels of commitment and results, for more than fourteen years... And have the psychological scars to prove it. That last line was a joke. Mostly.

Some credentials so you can really see how much time i have thrown away among strange tomes in badly lit rooms instead of being a healthy young man trying to get into the underwear of healthy, well endowed moe girls (with glasses!), hidden to stop this of becoming a wall of text (tm):

I can reproduce, without prior memorizing, so many tables of correspondences i am myself amazed at how much free time i have enjoyed so far. I can actually understand half the Mutus Liber (my personal pride), most seals and keys, understand what those stupidly complex medieval rituals actually mean, recite the meaning of each and every symbol used in the Hermetic-Kabalistic variants of the Tarot (with the full gematric relationships if you get me inspired or are a cute girl with glasses who will go "You are so cool!" in response), throw a historical lesson on the politics of Magical Orders, and can recite the Enochian keys without first reading through my vast collection of ten or twenty dusty tomes of arcane knowledge, half a hundred volumes with only a paragraph or two that are actually not crap, and a couple hundred books only useful for bathroom emergencies and making a fire.

The funny thing is i am not sure i believe on this stuff or, more so, i am not sure i actually want to believe in it, a common thing about those who study it past a certain point and then notice it was something more serious and involved than throwing fireballs, looking cool in a pointy hat, and knowing girls that look really good in red and black... Thus i only use the knowledge gained through those long years of demon summoning, soul stealing, sigil drawing, blood sacrifices, failed sanskrit learning, and girlfriends screaming "you are fucking insane, man!" as they get as far as possible in as little time as they can to write in-depth essays about what the symbols and references used in VNs and Animes written by japanese guys unhealthily obsesed with the Western Occult Traditions actually mean so those who don't want to waste their lives solving the wicked puzzles left by very bored alchemists, doing assanas, finding a good terapist, and carving unholy symbols in their flesh can understand the background better than the writers themselves. So i am not going to turn into an Heroic Spirit anytime soon. Promise.


And yes, at times i do feel i have wasted most of my current life span and will get emo if you mention it, so save such comments for yourself. Thank you.

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Unread postby Rikh » September 15th, 2008, 5:50 am

Raitei wrote:
Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:@Inverted,
Comparing Kojirou to Sabre is not a sound argument. Kojirou is a fictional servant because he has NO factual basis at all. There is no historical record, the person does not exist. King Arthur, on the other hand, exists, be it male or female. However, if after the Grail War, someone were to summon King Arthur, the male version would come forth. This is because people believe Arthur is male (due to Sabre's disguise/boyish visage or whatever the reason), and many people accepted. The historical record has Arthur as male, and that is what people at Shirou's time believed. Because heroic spirits are the crystallization of mankind's wishes, the most accepted version will result, so the male Arthur will be summoned. Shirou encountered Sabre because his catalyst is the true Avalon and also Sabre's contract with the world, the tie is just too strong.

Edit: I would picture the male Arthur to be a bishonen who looks identical to Sabre, and probably has identical skill sets.
belief can affect a heroic spirit, but it can't go too far from the basis. yes, there is a basis for every hero. otherwise, angra mainyu would be a full fledged god instead of an "evil incarnation" heroic spirit. the argument "no female arthur will be summoned again after 5th war" is just but a baseless fan argument.

fuyuki wiki wrote:Normally, Heroic Spirits are summoned as pure power. Receiving a form and a mind similar to what they were back when they were alive is limited only to the Fuyuki Grail War. Generally when Heroic Spirits are summoned, they're used in Kuchiyose or oracles (as in power is channeled through a medium who then makes prophetic statements or what not).
and tell me, has anyone ever summoned a full-formed heroic spirit outside the fuyuki grail war?

Yah, Battlemoon wars has plenty =P

Thanateros wrote:Let's see... I say i would fit into the "caster" archetype, even though i would prefer the "assassin" one for coolness, sex appeal, and emo value.

At least to be a failed one is not too much of a stretch. While i do not ask the eventual reader to believe in what we call, as a whole, "The Occult" i have been researching and studying it, with various levels of commitment and results, for more than fourteen years... And have the psychological scars to prove it. That last line was a joke. Mostly.

Some credentials so you can really see how much time i have thrown away among strange tomes in badly lit rooms instead of being a healthy young man trying to get into the underwear of healthy, well endowed moe girls (with glasses!), hidden to stop this of becoming a wall of text (tm):

I can reproduce, without prior memorizing, so many tables of correspondences i am myself amazed at how much free time i have enjoyed so far. I can actually understand half the Mutus Liber (my personal pride), most seals and keys, understand what those stupidly complex medieval rituals actually mean, recite the meaning of each and every symbol used in the Hermetic-Kabalistic variants of the Tarot (with the full gematric relationships if you get me inspired or are a cute girl with glasses who will go "You are so cool!" in response), throw a historical lesson on the politics of Magical Orders, and can recite the Enochian keys without first reading through my vast collection of ten or twenty dusty tomes of arcane knowledge, half a hundred volumes with only a paragraph or two that are actually not crap, and a couple hundred books only useful for bathroom emergencies and making a fire.

The funny thing is i am not sure i believe on this stuff or, more so, i am not sure i actually want to believe in it, a common thing about those who study it past a certain point and then notice it was something more serious and involved than throwing fireballs, looking cool in a pointy hat, and knowing girls that look really good in red and black... Thus i only use the knowledge gained through those long years of demon summoning, soul stealing, sigil drawing, blood sacrifices, failed sanskrit learning, and girlfriends screaming "you are fucking insane, man!" as they get as far as possible in as little time as they can to write in-depth essays about what the symbols and references used in VNs and Animes written by japanese guys unhealthily obsesed with the Western Occult Traditions actually mean so those who don't want to waste their lives solving the wicked puzzles left by very bored alchemists, doing assanas, finding a good terapist, and carving unholy symbols in their flesh can understand the background better than the writers themselves. So i am not going to turn into an Heroic Spirit anytime soon. Promise.


And yes, at times i do feel i have wasted most of my current life span and will get emo if you mention it, so save such comments for yourself. Thank you.

Lesson of the day: Anonymity is godsend. I love my internet.


umm.... what are you talking about...
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Unread postby Thanateros » September 15th, 2008, 8:05 pm

Rikh wrote:umm.... what are you talking about...


I was answering the original topic with, basicly, "Caster, because this and that." in the cynical, sarcastic, and overly dramatic writing style that i developed through the years.

Do not take it too seriously. :wink:
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Unread postby elite5472 » September 26th, 2008, 5:04 am

I'd certainly be saber...

at least by the way I play in videogames, I'm always rushing straight into the action without thinking too much until I'm actually in a pinch.

I certainly preffer Swords and Magic Resistances over everything else, speed and agility is also my preference...

At first i though i'd fit for assassin but I don't really like stealth that much.

In Oblivion and most RPGs i always pick a character that uses swords, has the mobility of a rouge and is a capable caster at stuff like illusion and summoning creatures and weapons...

As for my personality... I'm always kinda straight to the point, but I'm also quite the thinker when I have time for it...

But between Saber, Caster and Assassin, Saber fits me best.
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