Unlimited Blade Works discussion(NOT THE PATCH)(spoiler)

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Unread postby Miraploy » June 6th, 2008, 10:44 pm

Neither Kouma nor Aoko can count as 'human', one's a demon and the other's a god pretty much.

Shikiller, just admit that you're wrong already. You're changing your argument.

Being able to score a lucky kill (or a protagonist uberweapon kill) on a servant is not the same thing as 'servant class' nor is it the same thing as be able to 'match a servant'.

Nasu said no human is on the level that Servants are, fin.
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Unread postby Cat Megex » June 6th, 2008, 10:55 pm

Miraploy wrote:Neither Kouma nor Aoko can count as 'human', one's a demon and the other's a god pretty much.


If I'm not mistaken, Aoko is simply a human who just happens to have a godlike power. Sort of like how Shirou is a regular human, aside from having a Reality Marble.
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Unread postby Miraploy » June 6th, 2008, 10:58 pm

Semantics. If you're able to perform miracles, then you're pretty much a god.
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Unread postby Cat Megex » June 6th, 2008, 11:07 pm

Miraploy wrote:Semantics. If you're able to perform miracles, then you're pretty much a god.


Let me ask you this, then: if Aoko lost her ability to use True Magic, would she be any different from a regular human? Contrast this with, say, Arcueid: even if Arcueid lost all her powers, she would still be a vampire, and as such would not be human.
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Unread postby Miraploy » June 6th, 2008, 11:21 pm

If God somehow weren't omipotent would he still be a God?

And no... If Arc lost all her powers she wouldn't be a vampire anymore. Though I don't know what the heck she would be.
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Unread postby Raitei » June 6th, 2008, 11:38 pm

okay... this sounds rather silly, but magi aren't really human from the start, let alone true magic user. remember how the mage general killed crimson moon just because he didn't like that guy?

and yes, miraploy's got it, lucky strikes don't count as being able to match something.
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Unread postby Cat Megex » June 6th, 2008, 11:43 pm

Miraploy wrote:If God somehow weren't omipotent would he still be a God?

And no... If Arc lost all her powers she wouldn't be a vampire anymore. Though I don't know what the heck she would be.


Okay, leave out the "would still be a vampire" part. My point was, even without her powers, Arcueid wouldn't be human. Just as God wouldn't be human even if s/he were powerless.

Raitei wrote:remember how the mage general killed crimson moon just because he didn't like that guy?


...By Crimson Moon, do you mean the being that Arcueid is supposedly a "reflection" of? Or gets her powers from or whatever....

and yes, miraploy's got it, lucky strikes don't count as being able to match something.


That's for sure.
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Unread postby Miraploy » June 7th, 2008, 12:12 am

I give.

Aoko's a human.

But she's so far from our normal conceptualization of a human that she SHOULDN'T be!
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Unread postby Cat Megex » June 7th, 2008, 12:44 am

Miraploy wrote:I give.

Aoko's a human.

But she's so far from our normal conceptualization of a human that she SHOULDN'T be!


That is true. XD
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Unread postby Raitei » June 7th, 2008, 12:53 am

Cat Megex wrote:
Miraploy wrote:I give.

Aoko's a human.

But she's so far from our normal conceptualization of a human that she SHOULDN'T be!


That is true. XD
but the other user, the mage general is not. he is the one who killed crimson moon, "father" of all true ancestors. :P
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Unread postby Cat Megex » June 7th, 2008, 1:22 am

Raitei wrote:but the other user, the mage general is not. he is the one who killed crimson moon, "father" of all true ancestors. :P


...When exactly does that take place? Because, if Kagetsu Tohya is to be believed (and yes, I do know that a lot of it is non-canon), Crimson Moon exists to at least some extent within Arcueid's subconscious.

Also, then what exactly is the mage general? A vampire?
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Unread postby Kiraiya » June 7th, 2008, 2:51 am

Spoiler tags please....All this info...did not want to be known by my brain...
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Unread postby Shikiller » June 7th, 2008, 3:36 am

Cat Megex wrote:So, to put it simply: it is possible for a human to defeat a Servant. They just have to have a whole lot of power and/or be in a really good situation.


Yep, but for some reason people don't like to admit it. Arguing that Aoko is not human, lol.
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Unread postby md » June 7th, 2008, 4:31 am

Kiraiya wrote:Spoiler tags please....All this info...did not want to be known by my brain...

Topic name: Unlimited Blade Works discussion(NOT THE PATCH)(spoiler)
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Unread postby Kiraiya » June 7th, 2008, 4:38 am

md wrote:
Kiraiya wrote:Spoiler tags please....All this info...did not want to be known by my brain...

Topic name: Unlimited Blade Works discussion(NOT THE PATCH)(spoiler)


Some of the spoiler are from tsukihime(which i have not finished yet) and f/ha. Neither of those are UBW.
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Unread postby Raitei » June 7th, 2008, 6:37 am

Shikiller wrote:
Cat Megex wrote:So, to put it simply: it is possible for a human to defeat a Servant. They just have to have a whole lot of power and/or be in a really good situation.


Yep, but for some reason people don't like to admit it. Arguing that Aoko is not human, lol.
Miraploy wrote: Shikiller, just admit that you're wrong already. You're changing your argument.
seconded.
Cat Megex wrote:
Raitei wrote:but the other user, the mage general is not. he is the one who killed crimson moon, "father" of all true ancestors. :P


...When exactly does that take place? Because, if Kagetsu Tohya is to be believed (and yes, I do know that a lot of it is non-canon), Crimson Moon exists to at least some extent within Arcueid's subconscious.

Also, then what exactly is the mage general? A vampire?
the mage general is
kishua zelretch schweinorg, possessor / user of the second true magic. and yes, he's a vampire.

here's info on crimson moon and the mage general, if you're interested.


on topic : random question that has been lingering in my mind : if a specific sword from gob is destroyed, will gil have a replacement? like auto-repair or something? because if not... you guys surely now what would happen ;)
Last edited by Raitei on June 7th, 2008, 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby Inverted » June 7th, 2008, 9:28 am

Shikiller wrote:
Cat Megex wrote:So, to put it simply: it is possible for a human to defeat a Servant. They just have to have a whole lot of power and/or be in a really good situation.


Yep, but for some reason people don't like to admit it. Arguing that Aoko is not human, lol.


I agree with Shikiller and Cat Megex on this one .
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Unread postby Raitei » June 7th, 2008, 10:16 am

hey, guys, check this out :
fuyuki wiki wrote:Potion of Youth
Used by Gilgamesh after the 4th war and during hollow ataraxia to make him blend in more and be more sociable, which is exactly why he didn't cause a big ruckus after the 4th war.


does that mean it's all ko-gil who'd been consuming all those "corpses" in kotomine's church?? blasphemy!! :lol:


also, this :
fuyuki wiki wrote:Black Holy Grail
Heaven's Fall

A substance composed of the 3rd substance and keeps Servants pinned down in this world. A black portal that is inside the Greater Holy Grail. A Heroic Spirit that matured into a wish-granting demon thanks to the power of the Holy Grail. It's power is weak, but it does what it can to grant the wishes of its master. Like other Servants, it requires a mortal Master (someone living in the present) to hold it down into this plane of existence.
probably what came out from gil's body at that time?
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Unread postby Inverted » June 7th, 2008, 1:57 pm

Raitei wrote:hey, guys, check this out :
fuyuki wiki wrote:Potion of Youth
Used by Gilgamesh after the 4th war and during hollow ataraxia to make him blend in more and be more sociable, which is exactly why he didn't cause a big ruckus after the 4th war.


does that mean it's all ko-gil who'd been consuming all those "corpses" in kotomine's church?? blasphemy!! :lol:


I don't think so. The potion of youth is just to make him look younger. While the souls are used to provide him with prana to stay in this world. In F/ha its obvious Gil gulped in a good amount. Maybe after the 4th war he consumed a little to look somewhat younger?
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Unread postby Raitei » June 7th, 2008, 2:14 pm

Inverted wrote:
I don't think so. The potion of youth is just to make him look younger. While the souls are used to provide him with prana to stay in this world. In F/ha its obvious Gil gulped in a good amount. Maybe after the 4th war he consumed a little to look somewhat younger?
gil is still young, you know :P
consuming the potion will somewhat make him "younger" in another sense :P
fuyuki wiki wrote:Normally, Heroic Spirits are summoned as pure power. Receiving a form and a mind similar to what they were back when they were alive is limited only to the Fuyuki Grail War. Generally when Heroic Spirits are summoned, they're used in Kuchiyose or oracles (as in power is channeled through a medium who then makes prophetic statements or what not).
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