Unlimited Blade Works discussion(NOT THE PATCH)(spoiler)

It's alright, we feel your pain. Noone wants to admit being gar for Berserker.

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Kiraiya
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Unread post by Kiraiya » March 17th, 2008, 11:11 pm

Qu4Z wrote:
raislash wrote:well, i think all of us in this thread is not diligent enough to wait for the release.....btw do u guys think i should add a poll for people who play the leaked version???
Come on... Was that really all that hard? :P
Incidentally, I notice your location says NZ. Care to expand on that? (Or is that an invasion of Privacy? <_<)
New Zealand :o?
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Kanzar
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Unread post by Kanzar » March 17th, 2008, 11:22 pm

Woah, a lot more Oceania-nites than expected?! :D

Serpentarius
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Unread post by Serpentarius » March 17th, 2008, 11:26 pm

I must admit, Berserker is quite GAR in this route.

Kiraiya
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Unread post by Kiraiya » March 17th, 2008, 11:28 pm

Serpentarius wrote:I must admit, Berserker is quite GAR in this route.
"You're strong Berserker..."
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Infoceptor
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Unread post by Infoceptor » March 18th, 2008, 3:05 am

Can anyone give me their interpretation on the final confrontation between:
► Show Spoiler
Oh, as a side comment, i have to admit, UBW and FSN in general really, really impress me. I didn't like the Fate route too much, partially because i was spoiled by the anime and partially because Shiro was a useless idiot there but UBW definitely made up for it. Beyond all the flashiness of the servants, the fights and the girls (which are undoubtably good in their own right) lie some pretty deep themes. I might have to replay Fate again to make sure i didn't miss anything.
Last edited by Infoceptor on March 18th, 2008, 3:34 am, edited 3 times in total.

Forceflow
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Unread post by Forceflow » March 18th, 2008, 3:07 am

There was something nagging at me after I cleared both endings of UBW so I went back to check my game CG collection.
► Show Spoiler

WingZero
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Unread post by WingZero » March 18th, 2008, 3:19 am

If you're talking about another potential H-scene with Rin, no, you're not doing it wrong.

I've cleared UBW in its entirety (every choice, max rin points, min rin points, equal (as much as possible) Saber/Rin points) and there's no extra event.

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Unread post by goforit1 » March 18th, 2008, 11:02 am

Infoceptor wrote:Can anyone give me their interpretation on the final confrontation between:
► Show Spoiler
Oh, as a side comment, i have to admit, UBW and FSN in general really, really impress me. I didn't like the Fate route too much, partially because i was spoiled by the anime and partially because Shiro was a useless idiot there but UBW definitely made up for it. Beyond all the flashiness of the servants, the fights and the girls (which are undoubtably good in their own right) lie some pretty deep themes. I might have to replay Fate again to make sure i didn't miss anything.
I agree with you. I really love F/SN, it's such a huge VN, and UBW just made it go up a LOT in my mind. Just thinking back over how the fights went in Fate compared to UBW, Shirou doesn't even compare.

Having a Reality Marble? Finishing off Gil? That was so awesome, he was really much more Gar/more of a fighter in UBW. Such a wimp in Fate, I didn't know it would change that much.

And of course, Rin is <3. Made me actually laugh out loud several times, and every time she got pissed at him (the "flab on my mind" comments especially) I smiled.

The whole story with the Servants switching masters, finding out more about Archer, etc, was awesome, and the True ending was much better than Fate's True ending. Saber's always got a spot in my heart, so it sucks that she had to go, but Rin/Shirou at the end was sweet. I want more! There needs to be a story/visual novel/anime/manga of them in London learning to be Magi! Seeing Shirou get stronger (and have that trump card of a Reality Marble up his sleeve) in a "magic school" anime/manga would be sweet.

I just wish we'd seen some Dark Saber action though! :P C'mon Caster, shoulda used that Command Spell earlier!

I'm so excited for HF though, there's some darker elements to that route, right?


I am a little confused about the whole Shirou's ideal thing. Never really got the whole conclusion of that, and why he's gonna be "different" from the Archer that Rin summons in the future. Like I have an idea, but I can't really sumarize it. What are y'alls thoughts on that whole Ideal complex he's got going on? And why will/won't he change his destiny of becoming a self-loathing Guardian in the future?

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Unread post by DarkEyes » March 18th, 2008, 12:49 pm

Aw man, now u reminded me of all the lol moments in UBW.. I especially loved the moment after choosing to side with lancer under one condition =p

And hell yeah, Shirou got fighting down on this route, man I can't w8 to see badass HF Shirou =]

About the ideal thing, I think Shirou kept fighting because the ideal he fought for was "a beautiful thing to fight for" or something like that.. And Archer gave up, 'cause he remembered the promise with Kiritsugu, that he once fought for the same beautiful thing and, in the end, because he doesn't regret fighting for it... It was mentioned in the Answer thingy after the UBW true end..

Also, I think it was discussed on and ppl agreed that Archer is a Shirou from neither route.. As in he's not Fate, UBW or HF Shirou, but a Shirou from a different time line... His memories remind me of Fate Shirou, but I dunn think that wimp would be able to pull of killing, so.....

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Unread post by Forceflow » March 18th, 2008, 6:06 pm

WingZero wrote:If you're talking about another potential H-scene with Rin, no, you're not doing it wrong.

I've cleared UBW in its entirety (every choice, max rin points, min rin points, equal (as much as possible) Saber/Rin points) and there's no extra event.
The CG still exist though. How does that come into play?

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Unread post by Brizzle » March 18th, 2008, 6:18 pm

Forceflow wrote:
WingZero wrote:If you're talking about another potential H-scene with Rin, no, you're not doing it wrong.

I've cleared UBW in its entirety (every choice, max rin points, min rin points, equal (as much as possible) Saber/Rin points) and there's no extra event.
The CG still exist though. How does that come into play?
If it's what I think you're talking about, it's in HF.

Infoceptor
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Unread post by Infoceptor » March 18th, 2008, 6:29 pm

Alright, after replaying some of the scenes, this is what i came to the conclusion of. If i have anything to complain about UBW, its this: the script tends to repeat the same ideas over and over again too many times and its hard to decipher what exactly the characters are really thinking or feeling sometimes. There is too much beating around the bush without anything conclusive at times. Albeit i will admit that the repetition is necessary to get ideas across, it could be done more concisely if it was just more to the point.

Anyway, here is my summary of the conflict between Shiro and Archer. Be warned, its pretty long :wink:.
► Show Spoiler
Wow, what an inspiring novel :D. Its like one of those "coming of age" stories or something, without the ero or sweet ass fights and drama :). My take on the whole thing is this: it is about a boy who grows up and learns what he believed in his childhood, becoming a superhero, is simply impossible. But instead of giving up on his dreams, he fights himself; all the doubts, feelings of hypocrisy, fear he has and wins in the end. He knows his path is futile, he will only get mediocre results but he doesn't care. He'll still continue walking forward, towards Avalon, the ever distant utopia.

In short, you could say UBW is about never giving up on what you truly believe in, regardless of the doubts you may have. Do you absolute best and try your hardest. Even if life doesn't end well, you can't say you ever will regret your actions, what you knew was the honest thing to do.

Forceflow
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Unread post by Forceflow » March 18th, 2008, 7:36 pm

Brizzle wrote:
Forceflow wrote:
WingZero wrote:If you're talking about another potential H-scene with Rin, no, you're not doing it wrong.

I've cleared UBW in its entirety (every choice, max rin points, min rin points, equal (as much as possible) Saber/Rin points) and there's no extra event.
The CG still exist though. How does that come into play?
If it's what I think you're talking about, it's in HF.
seriously? Nice... shirou that lucky ass... ^^

Brizzle
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Unread post by Brizzle » March 18th, 2008, 8:00 pm

Forceflow wrote:
Brizzle wrote:
Forceflow wrote: The CG still exist though. How does that come into play?
If it's what I think you're talking about, it's in HF.
seriously? Nice... shirou that lucky ass... ^^
Well, the part I'm thinking of is a little odd. It probably isn't what you're expecting.

WingZero
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Unread post by WingZero » March 18th, 2008, 8:14 pm

Brizzle wrote:
Forceflow wrote:
Brizzle wrote: If it's what I think you're talking about, it's in HF.
seriously? Nice... shirou that lucky ass... ^^
Well, the part I'm thinking of is a little odd. It probably isn't what you're expecting.
My UBW gallery is fully unlocked. So it's not in the UBW gallery, to be sure.

Brizzle
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Unread post by Brizzle » March 18th, 2008, 8:27 pm

WingZero wrote:My UBW gallery is fully unlocked. So it's not in the UBW gallery, to be sure.
The scene I'm thinking of is the first Ero scene in HF.

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Unread post by DarkEyes » March 18th, 2008, 9:07 pm

Infoceptor wrote: Anyway, here is my summary of the conflict between Shiro and Archer. Be warned, its pretty long :wink:.
Hell yeah, it's long... But dude... U just said the same stuff I did :? Just in a longer and better explained way xD

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Unread post by goforit1 » March 18th, 2008, 9:59 pm

DarkEyes wrote:
Infoceptor wrote: Anyway, here is my summary of the conflict between Shiro and Archer. Be warned, its pretty long :wink:.
Hell yeah, it's long... But dude... U just said the same stuff I did :? Just in a longer and better explained way xD
Yea that was a pretty well explained view on it. I haven't had time to go back through the novel scenes involving that stuff again (so freaking long), but I defintely agree that it was repetitive and beat around hte bush a lot. >_<

That's the most confusing part about UBW, is when they say the same thing like 10 times over the course of hte novel, even though you thought they'd moved on. I think that's why I was fuzzy on what was going on.

The view that he's accepting it either way is good, and thinking back that makes sense, I just hope it will be enough for him in the future.

I guess it's different from before, but to me it seems like he could still waver and become like the GARcher we know and love after he dies. From what I understand, he's still working for the ideal that will betray him in the end, so I wonder, did he gain enough strength to stand strong through the hardships of being a Guardian that Archer went through?

It's hard for me to see if he developed enough for this to happen. Obviously the writers want him to develop so, but with all the repetition I can't see that change clearly.

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Unread post by DarkEyes » March 18th, 2008, 10:19 pm

No one could gain enough strength to stand through being a Guardian, since well.... It never freaking ends :? And I dunno if it's a bad thing, but in the end it was said that the peace Archer got was only for one summoning... So even after UBW he's still the same old Imma gonna kill myself Archer that we love xD

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Unread post by Hiyono » March 18th, 2008, 11:45 pm

DarkEyes wrote:No one could gain enough strength to stand through being a Guardian, since well.... It never freaking ends :? And I dunno if it's a bad thing, but in the end it was said that the peace Archer got was only for one summoning... So even after UBW he's still the same old Imma gonna kill myself Archer that we love xD
I took it to mean that Archer's job as a Counter Guardian yet continues, and as such, he's still bound to kill to save (as part of the never-ending war on terror imo). It's stated several times throughout that his existence has diverged from Shirou's, and as such, the events that take place will not change his personal fate.

The following is just how I understood things, (they could be totally wrong :p):
On the other hand, however, when Rin figures out Archer's identity, we learn that Heroic Spirits at home in the Throne are outside of time, and as such have knowledge of events that have happened at any point in time (which is how they know each other). Whatever knowledge they've gained per incarnation gets phoned home, and it's this global version who gets sent out each time. As such, every incarnation of Archer in any point in the timeline should be the same. Having said this, upon his summoning, he should already have had knowledge of the events of UBW, and already have reached the same conclusion. We now see what delightful paradoxes arise when you try to play around with time.

This can be resolved if we instead take it to mean that Archer purposely chose this role for Shirou's sake (which is semi-likely, since we know it wasn't done for himself), although it doesn't seem in line with the characterization given in UBW. Oh, and also if I'm totally wrong, that works too :p
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