I guess I understand your views and Ill respect them. Cant say about anyone else though.Raven wrote:This I can response to. I don't think your analogy and example are the same as what I said, quoting myself:Kiraiya wrote: I agree. Just because Message fucked up doesnt mean were saying all of MM fucked up. Ravens logic borders on stereotypical values. If theres a group of guys in front of a store, one of them decides to do some dumb shit, goes inside and holds the store up, By raven logic we can assume that the whole group of them fucked up because individuality doesnt mean shit if your part of a group. Just because we hate the guy that held up the store( or wasted time on a useless installer in this case) doesnt mean we wont hang out with the other guys in that group. I respect individuals not groups. People are different and therefore should be as individuals that are part of a group not as a group as one being.
andmy resect is to mirror-moon, and ontil the group itself as a whole of all its member, decide that it's the time for us to use the patch, I will wait. Maybe for a little, maybe for a long while, maybe they'll never release it. Of course I have my own wishful thinking and opinion on the matter, but my principal dictate that I'll not going to use it without their conscent.
I thought I was clear, but in case I was not, here is some further explanation.I will always treat mirror-moon as a whole and entiety of its members. Any internal discussion, good or bad, and problem sthey may have is for them to decide and handle, I have no right neither the intention to comment or butt in. Any final decision that they reach as a group is good enough for me unless I'm a part of the team.
Different members in a group will always have different way of doing things and they're not agreeing on everything. It's quite common for a member suggest something, the other will just flatly say no. However, the reason a group can work together is because in the end, they all settle down for a mutal agreement that will be the group statement to the public, and it's that statement that I will respect. Takajun may suggest an early release, message suggested otherwise, and I doubt it's just between them. In the end, mirror moon itself, as a single entity, gave out a statement that the patch is not ready, then to me, it's not ready.
I think what I said was twisted around a little bit by the viewers, I never said anything about who or what about individual respect, anyone can have their own opinion on different individual. However, when I say a group, I'm talking about the decision that the group had made as a single entity. That's the final statement, and that's what I will respect, if you leak it, that means you disrespect not just message's intention, but the group's intention itself as a whole.
To put it short:
- When I say I won't use the leak, it's not because message said so. I say I won't use the leak because mirror moon said it is not ready.
to put it in an alternative scenario:
- Hypothecially a patch is released by mirron moon itself officially, however message and hell, even if it's Takajun himself come to the forum and say they're not happy with the release and it should be better and blah blah blah ... guess what, I would still use the patch. Simply because despite some personal differences, if mirror moon released a patch, it's a signal to me that "I'm ready, you can use me." Like I said, internal disagreement and problem is left to (and should be left to) the group itself to handle. Anything that is said under the name mirror moon is the final verdict.
And one more thing; since it WAS an internal leak that means that one of the team was frustrated with messages progress. Since message was the release engineer all of the details of the release are on him. Therefore even if the entire team is pissed, they cant/dont want to replace him and therefore message has the final say in when the project is finished not MM necessarily. Just because it was posted on the site doesnt mean that that is really what the teams wants it is possible that they are forced to say that because they have no other choice. And dont see this as a counter argument. I am simply stating MM might not have had a choice as a whole on the matter and therefore their decision to to post that the installer is not ready was not really what the whole team wanted, just one guy who saw fit to take his sweet time.