Reality Marble questions (MASSIVE MASSIVE SPOILERZ)

It's alright, we feel your pain. Noone wants to admit being gar for Berserker.

Moderator: Staffers

Keeper of Gil's Vault
DESU DESU!
Posts: 501
Joined: July 15th, 2007, 2:49 pm

Reality Marble questions (MASSIVE MASSIVE SPOILERZ)

Unread post by Keeper of Gil's Vault » January 3rd, 2008, 8:51 pm

Besides the five true magics, reality marble is the coolest for me. From the information I have collected, it seems that reality marble is an innate skill for demons, angels and super natural beings in Nasuverse. All the 27 Dead Apostles have it, even ORT (arguable, but let's just leave it like that). The example I have the most information on is Nero, he aquired the "Lair of the Beast King" through his experimentation as a sorcerer/alchemist. This then made me ask, where did Shirou's reality marble come from? I am almost 100% sure that he did not learn it from archer. The Fate route dropped lots of hints that "Unlimited Blade Works" already resided within Shirou before he ever saw archer's. This confused me much. If Shirou has a reality marble naturally, doesn't it mean he is not human? (i.e. demon, vampire etc.) Or, is it possible for a human to develop one spontaneously?

Brizzle
Crack Desu!
Posts: 319
Joined: January 3rd, 2008, 10:34 pm
Location: In Despair

Unread post by Brizzle » January 3rd, 2008, 10:42 pm

Reality Marbles are not just for demons. Some humans may have one, it's just that it comes naturally to demons and other spiritual beings.

Not all of the 27 DAA have one. Only some such as Chaos and TATARI. Sacchin also has one. Iksander (rider from the fourth Heaven's Feel) has one that is combined with a spiritual army (it belongs to both him and the eirei summoned).

Reality Mables are detailed here: http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Reality_Marble

In short, Reality Marbles allow for the creation of an unnatural sort of pocket world that is a reflection of the soul of the owner. Of course Shirou has it already. He and the Counter Guardian Emiya have the same soul. Any Noble Phantasm he has ever seen is automatically recorded in Unlimited Blade Works.

serialies
Crack Desu!
Posts: 396
Joined: October 13th, 2007, 6:05 am

Unread post by serialies » January 4th, 2008, 2:24 am

uhm...they dont have the same soul. the second archer became a CG he no longer is "connected" to his past/present/and future (as in, the grandfather paradox wont do anything to him), his soul becomes a seperate thing + its even possible there are an infinite number of archers under the name "emiya shiro".

the shiro in the game and the archer in the game shouldnt be considered the "same person" except in history, experience and name. their existences can be seperate, while if they were the "same person" their existences would be ever reliant.

Archer was once the shiro in the game, but he is no longer if that makes sense.
I order the club sandwich all the time, but I'm not even a member. Man, I don't know how I get away with it.

WingZero
Crack Desu!
Posts: 392
Joined: December 21st, 2007, 10:49 pm

Unread post by WingZero » January 4th, 2008, 3:18 am

Actually, Archer and Emiya from the game do not have the same experiences.

Archer is like Shiro from an unpublished route ("Ilya Route"?).

Mukuro
Addict
Posts: 66
Joined: October 11th, 2007, 5:54 pm
Location: Wandering somewhere in Nasuverse

Unread post by Mukuro » January 4th, 2008, 9:25 am

Archer was once the shiro in the game, but he is no longer if that makes sense.
He is still EMIYA, it's just that our Emiya is not Archer.

Archer = EMIYA while Emiya Shirou =/= Archer

serialies
Crack Desu!
Posts: 396
Joined: October 13th, 2007, 6:05 am

Unread post by serialies » January 5th, 2008, 8:05 am

hmm guess i wasnt clear nuff :o

i mean it in the sense that, Shiro was once the past Archer

but not anymore.

although they both go under the name Shiro and Emiya, their existences are no longer dependant on each other / they might aswell be different people (which in a sense...they are)

we must assume that Archer had significantly different experiences than Shiro for the sake of logic.
I order the club sandwich all the time, but I'm not even a member. Man, I don't know how I get away with it.

Brizzle
Crack Desu!
Posts: 319
Joined: January 3rd, 2008, 10:34 pm
Location: In Despair

Unread post by Brizzle » January 5th, 2008, 8:19 am

Yes, that is true; Archer has exclusive memories when he's summoned as a servant for the Fifth Heaven's Feel to prevent wacky time paradox type things from occurring.
► Show Spoiler

zeldaevolution
Posting more than n00bs
Posts: 21
Joined: January 21st, 2008, 4:19 pm
Location: Philippines

Unread post by zeldaevolution » January 21st, 2008, 4:57 pm

Hmm... if you can do anything in the Reality Marble...
Then, why can you die there, like when Berserker finished off Archer inside the Reality Marble?
Or maybe because of his injuries before trying to cast Reality Marble...
I'm getting a little confused here...
Things won't get better if you kept in them to yourself... or...
Thing won't be better too much if you're saying it and people won't listen to you... even though you have no lies...

Kansho
DESU DESU!
Posts: 740
Joined: May 9th, 2007, 12:16 pm

Unread post by Kansho » January 21st, 2008, 6:07 pm

zeldaevolution wrote:Hmm... if you can do anything in the Reality Marble...
Then, why can you die there, like when Berserker finished off Archer inside the Reality Marble?
Or maybe because of his injuries before trying to cast Reality Marble...
I'm getting a little confused here...
► Show Spoiler
見せかけの自分はそっと捨ててただありのままで
misekake no jibun ha sotto sutete tada ari no mama de -
Throw away the "fake me" quietly and just be myself.

DarkEyes
Crack Desu!
Posts: 353
Joined: July 21st, 2007, 8:35 am
Location: ...the hill of swords

Unread post by DarkEyes » January 21st, 2008, 9:05 pm

How do u figure that?
► Show Spoiler

Kanzar
Crack Addic!
Posts: 164
Joined: July 31st, 2007, 3:41 am

Unread post by Kanzar » January 21st, 2008, 9:20 pm

My guess is it takes too long to say the activation chant, and hence isn't a viable move to use during many battles. >_>;; But that's just my guess.

Kansho
DESU DESU!
Posts: 740
Joined: May 9th, 2007, 12:16 pm

Unread post by Kansho » January 21st, 2008, 9:30 pm

DarkEyes wrote:How do u figure that?
► Show Spoiler
► Show Spoiler
見せかけの自分はそっと捨ててただありのままで
misekake no jibun ha sotto sutete tada ari no mama de -
Throw away the "fake me" quietly and just be myself.

Brizzle
Crack Desu!
Posts: 319
Joined: January 3rd, 2008, 10:34 pm
Location: In Despair

Unread post by Brizzle » January 22nd, 2008, 3:02 am

► Show Spoiler

Kansho
DESU DESU!
Posts: 740
Joined: May 9th, 2007, 12:16 pm

Unread post by Kansho » January 22nd, 2008, 10:06 am

Brizzle wrote:
► Show Spoiler
Is more a like
► Show Spoiler
見せかけの自分はそっと捨ててただありのままで
misekake no jibun ha sotto sutete tada ari no mama de -
Throw away the "fake me" quietly and just be myself.

Raitei
OMG! WTF WHO SET THIS TITLE! LULZ
Posts: 2277
Joined: August 7th, 2007, 12:26 pm
Location: Distant wilderness

Unread post by Raitei » January 22nd, 2008, 10:54 am

Kansho wrote:
► Show Spoiler
cannot agree more
► Show Spoiler
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
Fate/world providence

Kansho
DESU DESU!
Posts: 740
Joined: May 9th, 2007, 12:16 pm

Unread post by Kansho » January 22nd, 2008, 11:27 am

Raitei wrote:
► Show Spoiler
► Show Spoiler
見せかけの自分はそっと捨ててただありのままで
misekake no jibun ha sotto sutete tada ari no mama de -
Throw away the "fake me" quietly and just be myself.

Raitei
OMG! WTF WHO SET THIS TITLE! LULZ
Posts: 2277
Joined: August 7th, 2007, 12:26 pm
Location: Distant wilderness

Unread post by Raitei » January 22nd, 2008, 12:02 pm

Kansho wrote:As random fact, Unlimited Blade Works is mentioned in HF during the "Nine Bullet Revolver" scene.
Emiya Shirou wrote:
► Show Spoiler
In other words, with Archer arm, he can't do it regardless. But that can't really matter for him. He tries to see if he can use of it, saw that he can't and he go forward.

The Reality Marble is mentioned too by Rin at the end, someting along the lines "with a bit training, you can be able to perform it, Shirou".
I don't think that matters either.
► Show Spoiler
ps: please make sure you write the spoiler tags after the quote tags... just a suggestion, though...:P
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
Fate/world providence

zeldaevolution
Posting more than n00bs
Posts: 21
Joined: January 21st, 2008, 4:19 pm
Location: Philippines

Unread post by zeldaevolution » January 23rd, 2008, 12:59 pm

Raitei wrote:
Kansho wrote:As random fact, Unlimited Blade Works is mentioned in HF during the "Nine Bullet Revolver" scene.
Emiya Shirou wrote:
► Show Spoiler
In other words, with Archer arm, he can't do it regardless. But that can't really matter for him. He tries to see if he can use of it, saw that he can't and he go forward.

The Reality Marble is mentioned too by Rin at the end, someting along the lines "with a bit training, you can be able to perform it, Shirou".
I don't think that matters either.
► Show Spoiler
ps: please make sure you write the spoiler tags after the quote tags... just a suggestion, though...:P
But, if Shirou was able to do that, then nothing can defeat him and thus, the end.
Things won't get better if you kept in them to yourself... or...
Thing won't be better too much if you're saying it and people won't listen to you... even though you have no lies...

Raitei
OMG! WTF WHO SET THIS TITLE! LULZ
Posts: 2277
Joined: August 7th, 2007, 12:26 pm
Location: Distant wilderness

Unread post by Raitei » January 23rd, 2008, 1:09 pm

zeldaevolution wrote: But, if Shirou was able to do that, then nothing can defeat him and thus, the end.
what is that? if you mean creating the storm of blades inside the reality marble, yes, shirou would be invincible. but that's alright; it's a payoff since ubw costs so much mana and time to activate.
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
Fate/world providence

Brizzle
Crack Desu!
Posts: 319
Joined: January 3rd, 2008, 10:34 pm
Location: In Despair

Unread post by Brizzle » January 24th, 2008, 12:14 am

Don't know how much spoiler tags I need here, but just in case...
► Show Spoiler

Post Reply