A few questions (Spoilers)

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rastilin
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Unread post by rastilin » February 22nd, 2008, 12:09 pm

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3. That's true, that's a good reason. But more strength only helps in a straight out fight. It won't help if they're hitting your servant with artillery from three miles away. It also takes away a servant's ability to react to the sneaky or just plain weird moves. Heck, Berzerker might just be defeatable by always jumping to the nearest roof when he shows up. Eventually the master just passes out. Illya's special that she has more mana than previous masters of Berzerker; all of whom lost control of their servants.

So while it is an advantage. It's like walking down a big hallway filled with traps and the corpses of people who've fallen prey to those traps. It just seems silly to think that you'll be the exception who defies probability, possible but silly.

4. That does explain a lot. But not completely, no matter how few there are of Saber it would make perfect sense to dig for artefacts, especially if the prize is to make a secret wish and you only get one chance at it. Especially since the mage houses had massive wealth during the fourth.

5. But it's not normal. So it's not something that you should really depend on for victory. It's like buying lottery tickets and basing your retirement on winning the lottery. I haven't really read about the third, so how did they pull that off?

6. Yes, all true.

7. Didn't Emiya Kitsurgu mention he'd rather have taken his chances with getting assassin?
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EDIT: I seriously forgot to add this the first time but...
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serialies
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Unread post by serialies » February 22nd, 2008, 12:23 pm

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EDIT: guns need bullets, hence the bullets must be of the same level of power as the gun (which leads to many, many problems...), that said, Kiritsugu DID use modern weaponry, which was quite efficient, and secondly, anyone can fire a gun, and anyone can wield a sword, but its much harder to become a good swordsman, than it is to become a good gunman, subsequentially, its much harder to kill someone in a fight with a sword, but its quite simple to kill someone with a gun.

so one can be recognised for swordsmanship (on the level of humanity), but one will find it near impossible to be recognised for skills that with a firearm, which is more focused on the weapon than the shooter, even someone who never misses a shot wouldnt compare to a swordsman who is undefeated in terms of recognition of feats.

that said...@ NASU HAET GUNS: two words: Black Barrel.
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rastilin
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Unread post by rastilin » February 22nd, 2008, 12:48 pm

That's true, I accept I was excessive in using the word hate. Neverthless it's more of a reality/fantasy debate. Since guns are a current issue but swords are in the past. There is no actual history, as opposed to myth of people being recognised for swordsmanship. No matter how good you are, there's an upper limit for humans, beyond the point of being really good, luck starts playing in. If you consider it this way, it's no surprise that there are no legends of people being famous gunmen; my point being they haven't had time to form. Extreme superiority is why they invented landmines.

My specific complaint is that the Nasuverse mentions that any servant summoned with modern weapons will be a faceless soldier. Although I suppose you can also account for that because we haven't had assault weapons around long enough to really make legends. Not that we even make legends anymore.

Speaking of which
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serialies
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Unread post by serialies » February 22nd, 2008, 1:39 pm

@ "swordsmanship=limit" its the nasuverse :P, look at
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, he clearly defies what we would think as the "limit", and again, i reinforce the nasuverse point. problem as i pointed with guns, is that its very easy to gain skill, and in the end, all you can do is never miss a targets weakest point<- thats the peak of gunmanship (no matter how you practice, your not going to make the gun any stronger without modifications to the gun itself), not due to human limitations, but the limitations of a modern gun.

also, theres heaps of nameless swordsmen, but the sword themselves have an identity, and usually one who wields an identifiable sword, is one who themselves are equally distinguished, same for guns, except that there are not many guns which can reach that level of recognition by humanity, not to mention that guns are non-unique (mostly).

also...not everyone can wield a recognised sword, they just cannot match the capacity, while typically any random person can pick up a gun and utilize it, thats technology for you, its why the hero would be "nameless", anyone could do what he could do if he was just a gunslinger. note that if the black barrel ever became "famous" not any joe smoe could use it, so potentially...i guess someone could gain identity with that weapon, but even then, humanity would recognise the weapon over the weapon wielder, whereas with swords, it can go either way

so theres a bunch of reasons, quite logical really.
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1. true

@ 2. while thats true, Archer has a greater affinity with K+B, so he would probably feel more comfortable using it in anycase (+ as i said before, the stat boost is always good)

3. but you cant nessecarilly apply that to all Artifacts, remember that Avalon is in a league of its own...+ once a catalyst is used, sometimes its consumed or otherwise lost (as what happened with
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7. uh, her mothers call Irisviel (Iris for short...love that name :P)...Ilya's full name is Illyasviel, Einzburn is their family name
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rastilin
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Unread post by rastilin » February 22nd, 2008, 2:06 pm

Always striking a kill against any living thing up to the range of your gun is hardly something that would be defined as a limit. If you could do that, nothing short of the divine could stop you. No swordsman, unless they were immortal could possibly ever stop you. Ever. No matter how good. Even if they had mates and they all rushed you.

You're mistaken if you think Guns are easy to use. Hitting something small, from the hip or even through a sight reliably is pretty hard. Bonus points if it's moving. It's true that anyone could take an enemy down if they had an assault rifle going on full auto, but there's a massive difference between someone unskilled who just sprays at close range and hopes the enemy goes down and a trained soldier who uses the same weapon to shear off the top of an opponent's spinal column at 300 feet. Guns are proportionally better than swords but for both of them, lethality improves exponentially with training.
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7. My mistake.

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Unread post by Inverted » February 22nd, 2008, 2:18 pm

rastilin wrote:
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As for other questions more knowledgeable people will give better answer I think.

serialies
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Unread post by serialies » February 23rd, 2008, 1:47 am

rastilin wrote:Always striking a kill against any living thing up to the range of your gun is hardly something that would be defined as a limit. If you could do that, nothing short of the divine could stop you. No swordsman, unless they were immortal could possibly ever stop you. Ever. No matter how good. Even if they had mates and they all rushed you.

You're mistaken if you think Guns are easy to use. Hitting something small, from the hip or even through a sight reliably is pretty hard. Bonus points if it's moving. It's true that anyone could take an enemy down if they had an assault rifle going on full auto, but there's a massive difference between someone unskilled who just sprays at close range and hopes the enemy goes down and a trained soldier who uses the same weapon to shear off the top of an opponent's spinal column at 300 feet. Guns are proportionally better than swords but for both of them, lethality improves exponentially with training.
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7. My mistake.
@ Angel notes: it was confirmed outside of Angel notes (although i wouldnt be able to source you on that, except to perhaps a thread in beasts lair), and even the Encyclopedia entries inside it imply thats what happened.

@ guns: i think i explained i pretty well in my post above, so if you dont get it, then you dont get it :P

@ Returning artifacts: Servant = copy, true soul remains untouched in throne of heros, hence, any future summonings any damages would be repaired...

think of it this way, i have a file named "heroic spirit", inside that file i have all the stats for that hero, i then copy that file, and in the copied file, i delete all the stats, but the original file stays the same, and all future uses would be of the original file, hence anything done to the copies are for naught. (and the original itself is edit-proof, so cant be touched)

note that counter guardians get non-cognitive "memories" of their actions, but thats about the only thing that can change for them. kinda like a universal file which is accessed by all copies of the counter guardian (collective memory of actions as a CG)

and before you say it
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Kansho
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Unread post by Kansho » February 23rd, 2008, 12:46 pm

Dante Obscuri wrote:
Kansho wrote:
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No.
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見せかけの自分はそっと捨ててただありのままで
misekake no jibun ha sotto sutete tada ari no mama de -
Throw away the "fake me" quietly and just be myself.

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Unread post by zweiterversuch » February 25th, 2008, 1:38 am

guys sorry to interrupt you but I have something to ask.

In Tsuki Arc has her Marble phantom, right?
In fate will be called but Reality Marble.
Is it some kind of mistake or are they two different things?
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btw Princess Tutu is still Awesome!!!

Kansho
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Unread post by Kansho » February 25th, 2008, 2:10 am

Totally different things.
見せかけの自分はそっと捨ててただありのままで
misekake no jibun ha sotto sutete tada ari no mama de -
Throw away the "fake me" quietly and just be myself.

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Unread post by zweiterversuch » February 25th, 2008, 2:20 am

Kansho wrote:Totally different things.
wow
...
...
...
well you did answer my question but it wouldn't be bad if you explained it a little.
http://visualnoveldai.com/
If you want to create your own visual novel go there!
Try it out, no compromise!
8 inches in a week!

btw Princess Tutu is still Awesome!!!

Kansho
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Unread post by Kansho » February 25th, 2008, 2:26 am

- Marble Phantasm
- Reality Marble

Links for all, then. : P
見せかけの自分はそっと捨ててただありのままで
misekake no jibun ha sotto sutete tada ari no mama de -
Throw away the "fake me" quietly and just be myself.

zweiterversuch
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Unread post by zweiterversuch » February 25th, 2008, 12:27 pm

Kansho wrote:- Marble Phantasm
- Reality Marble

Links for all, then. : P

Thank you
http://visualnoveldai.com/
If you want to create your own visual novel go there!
Try it out, no compromise!
8 inches in a week!

btw Princess Tutu is still Awesome!!!

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Unread post by Retsej » February 26th, 2008, 7:22 pm

zweiterversuch wrote:
Kansho wrote:- Marble Phantasm
- Reality Marble

Links for all, then. : P

Thank you
From what I can tell, the basic difference between the two is the former manipulates reality whereas the latter changes reality.

serialies
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Unread post by serialies » February 27th, 2008, 2:28 am

Marble = use nature+imagination to do crazy shit
Reality = override reality to do crazy shit
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Unread post by zweiterversuch » February 29th, 2008, 1:00 am

Ok.
There are
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http://visualnoveldai.com/
If you want to create your own visual novel go there!
Try it out, no compromise!
8 inches in a week!

btw Princess Tutu is still Awesome!!!

Brizzle
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Unread post by Brizzle » February 29th, 2008, 2:21 am

That's Sader, the nickname for a very very very bad knock-off Saber figure. It's also hilarious.

See here: Variant Tabi J doujinshi.

Also, a few more amusing pictures:
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Raitei
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Unread post by Raitei » February 29th, 2008, 9:24 am

thanks to you guys, I must now cleanse and purify both my eyes and my brains with my special collections... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

ah, btw, here's some more about her :
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and this:
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"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
Fate/world providence

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