The terrible Fate/stay night manga

It's alright, we feel your pain. Noone wants to admit being gar for Berserker.

Moderator: Staffers

deathknight
Addict
Posts: 69
Joined: March 24th, 2007, 1:26 pm

The terrible Fate/stay night manga

Unread post by deathknight » October 12th, 2007, 4:30 am

I hope this belongs in the right place but I want to talk about the Fate/Stay Night manga going on. For those of you who read it I wonder if you feel the same way I do about a certain character who just ruins a wonderful story and excellent artwork in the series. Now I think the plot is great and much more indepth than the anime and the art is beautiful but Emiya Shirou is just atrocious to read through. This isn't the same as the cheesy acting Emiya had in the anime this is much worse in the manga IMO. Reading thorugh his speeches make me choke and just destroys the moods built up by any other character. I am not talking about his sexist crap I am talking about that AND the pussy boy aura he gives off in the story. My god the guy is gay! He talks big and gets his ass kicked by everyone and rinse and repeat while not even bothering to register the lesson!
For example:
► Show Spoiler

Its pretty evident Rin or Saber or even Shinji (whose a useless bastard too) make more interesting characters than that loser Emiya. At least Rin has balls and fighting power while Emiya just has... a very stupid plot device that keeps saving his ass when he should be dead 10000 times already! I mean it feels like Nasu recycled Ciel's immortality into Emiya but made him into the kidnapped damsel in distress/walking target who pretends hes something more.

*Sigh* I really think Nasu may have made a mistake making this kind of loser the main hero here. Why did he come up with such a gay excuse for a main character. He would be more appropriate as a running gag side show like Fuji-nee. His kind of character I have seen in many many mangas and anime before as the retard powerless bystander who gets killed in the crossfire between the main characters or wiped out in the big explosion. But he is very inappropriate to be the main hero because it is painful to even read his crap much less like him.
► Show Spoiler
IMO if you want to enjoy this manga you should try skipping Emiya's speech bubbles and just stick with the grownup talk from Rin and Saber.

But at least I realized pretty early why
► Show Spoiler
I really wish Nasu didn't get so "creative" and instead made a guy based off of Shiki Tohno or Ryogi because even Shiki in his Tohno state is 10 billion times cooler than this horror I see wrecking what should be some entertaining reading. It makes me feel so upset I have to let it out somewhere

Einherjar
OMEGA DESU!
Posts: 1036
Joined: August 26th, 2007, 1:25 am
Location: Away
Contact:

Unread post by Einherjar » October 12th, 2007, 5:02 am

Did you play the game or watch the Anime at all?
Shirou in the manga sucks, I couldn't agree more. In fact, he doesn't even look like him in the manga (explains why I quit after the 1st chapter. Horrible art).
► Show Spoiler
Don't make fun of Shirou.


P.S.
► Show Spoiler
Last edited by Einherjar on October 12th, 2007, 6:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
"...Whatever."
"...Not interested."

Retsej
Addict
Posts: 108
Joined: August 12th, 2007, 6:38 pm
Location: Georgia Tech
Contact:

Unread post by Retsej » October 12th, 2007, 6:17 am

Come Heaven's Feel, I'm sure you'll change your mind about Shirou.

Kansho
DESU DESU!
Posts: 740
Joined: May 9th, 2007, 12:16 pm

Re: The terrible Fate/stay night manga

Unread post by Kansho » October 12th, 2007, 12:01 pm

deathknight wrote:I hope this belongs in the right place but I want to talk about the Fate/Stay Night manga going on. For those of you who read it I wonder if you feel the same way I do about a certain character who just ruins a wonderful story and excellent artwork in the series. Now I think the plot is great and much more indepth than the anime and the art is beautiful but Emiya Shirou is just atrocious to read through. This isn't the same as the cheesy acting Emiya had in the anime this is much worse in the manga IMO. Reading thorugh his speeches make me choke and just destroys the moods built up by any other character. I am not talking about his sexist crap I am talking about that AND the pussy boy aura he gives off in the story. My god the guy is gay! He talks big and gets his ass kicked by everyone and rinse and repeat while not even bothering to register the lesson!
For example:
► Show Spoiler

Its pretty evident Rin or Saber or even Shinji (whose a useless bastard too) make more interesting characters than that loser Emiya. At least Rin has balls and fighting power while Emiya just has... a very stupid plot device that keeps saving his ass when he should be dead 10000 times already! I mean it feels like Nasu recycled Ciel's immortality into Emiya but made him into the kidnapped damsel in distress/walking target who pretends hes something more.

*Sigh* I really think Nasu may have made a mistake making this kind of loser the main hero here. Why did he come up with such a gay excuse for a main character. He would be more appropriate as a running gag side show like Fuji-nee. His kind of character I have seen in many many mangas and anime before as the retard powerless bystander who gets killed in the crossfire between the main characters or wiped out in the big explosion. But he is very inappropriate to be the main hero because it is painful to even read his crap much less like him.
► Show Spoiler
IMO if you want to enjoy this manga you should try skipping Emiya's speech bubbles and just stick with the grownup talk from Rin and Saber.

But at least I realized pretty early why
► Show Spoiler
I really wish Nasu didn't get so "creative" and instead made a guy based off of Shiki Tohno or Ryogi because even Shiki in his Tohno state is 10 billion times cooler than this horror I see wrecking what should be some entertaining reading. It makes me feel so upset I have to let it out somewhere
PLAY the visual novel (Heavens Feel concretely)... and you'll find a surprise about Shirou....

And for me, Shirou is a far better character than Shiki xDDDD

When all you Fate newcomers read the whole game, this kind of opinion will end for sure....

An image example, graphic GAR!!!
► Show Spoiler
見せかけの自分はそっと捨ててただありのままで
misekake no jibun ha sotto sutete tada ari no mama de -
Throw away the "fake me" quietly and just be myself.

lolipedofin
DESU DESU!
Posts: 915
Joined: May 31st, 2007, 12:04 am
Location: Lolitopia

Unread post by lolipedofin » October 12th, 2007, 1:28 pm

After years of experience in the otaku world (let me rephrase that, "japan culture" world) I've come to conclusion that nothing, There's NOTHING such as good or decent manga adaptation....

Whether it's anime to manga or game to manga... they tend to be suck... Just read the horror they made out of the tantalizing Full metal panic! Such a great anime turned into a horrendous manga with big breast bouncing everywhere.... :cry:

Can anyone tell me any good manga that's anime or game converted?? Other than Evangelion and Star Ocean (for me, this two are decent works)
Last edited by lolipedofin on October 12th, 2007, 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Uchi kaeru....

Einherjar
OMEGA DESU!
Posts: 1036
Joined: August 26th, 2007, 1:25 am
Location: Away
Contact:

Unread post by Einherjar » October 12th, 2007, 3:34 pm

I think that Tsukihime manga was pretty cool.
"...Whatever."
"...Not interested."

galvenize
Crack Addic!
Posts: 129
Joined: August 17th, 2007, 4:38 pm
Location: France , want some bread?

Unread post by galvenize » October 12th, 2007, 6:12 pm

The tsukihime manga ROX !
The characters are really what they should be , not like in the anime .
But i won't argue more since this is a FSN topic .

Retsej
Addict
Posts: 108
Joined: August 12th, 2007, 6:38 pm
Location: Georgia Tech
Contact:

Unread post by Retsej » October 12th, 2007, 6:23 pm

lolipedofin wrote:Can anyone tell me any good manga that's anime or game converted?? Other than Evangelion and Star Ocean (for me, this two are decent works)
Monster. Manga to anime. The anime possibly surpasses the manga, the reason being that the anime is an exact copy of the manga.

Henduluin
Crack Desu!
Posts: 341
Joined: November 5th, 2006, 3:29 pm
Location: Dutchtopia

Unread post by Henduluin » October 12th, 2007, 6:51 pm

The Mushishi and Nana anime are both, IMO, superior to their original manga counterparts, and I'm a manga elitist if there ever was one. Voices, color, animation and music add a LOT to these two.

Never read the FSN manga myself, but the Tsukihime one isn't doing that bad a job... Aside from getting Akiha's powers wrong. (She saps energy, not expells it.)
The meaning of life is to give life meaning.

deathknight
Addict
Posts: 69
Joined: March 24th, 2007, 1:26 pm

Unread post by deathknight » October 13th, 2007, 12:40 am

PLAY the visual novel (Heavens Feel concretely)... and you'll find a surprise about Shirou....

And for me, Shirou is a far better character than Shiki xDDDD

When all you Fate newcomers read the whole game, this kind of opinion will end for sure....
Well thats something to look forward to... hopefully when I read it my heart will be lifted...

Still you got to look at it like this. Emiya Shirou's black and white fairy tale drama means that he wouldn't even want to crush an ant because thats not something a "Hero of Justice!" would do. At least Shiki sees the world in a much more realistic grey light and would have no real problem with killing virtually any being who threatens his life or his loved ones. While Emiya would just want to talk or beg for his life which is one fo the few things he's good at. Plus Shiki can skillfully kill even Shinso or Servants in the beginning of the story while Emiya the weakling needs time to level it up like an rpg. I just wish Shiki could show up and cut a certain line on Emiya and then see Emiya's reaction when something in his pants fails to regenerate. (Lets see what the Hero of Justice has to say in that situation! :twisted:)

And I'm not even going to touch the way he lets Everyone Walk. All. Over. Him. with favors for this and you need to do that. What normal guy in his right mind would do favors for EVERYONE at school and let people take advantage of his "altruism" (ie. stupid naivete) EVERY single day! When you look at his alliance with Tohsaka, its quite clear Rin is in charge and is the brains while Emiya just fills in as the maid (Actually this is kind of scary since Emiya's housecleaning and good cooking reminds me of a mixture of Hisui and Kohaku in one person but without the kawaii or moe!)

Oh and btw I don't think the changed title is accurate. My criticism is restricted for just this one character in the manga. I actually like reading about Saber, Rin and the rest its really entertaining for that part minus the Shirou. Plus the artwork for Rin is superb! I just hope they don't make this as censored as the anime was.
► Show Spoiler

lolipedofin
DESU DESU!
Posts: 915
Joined: May 31st, 2007, 12:04 am
Location: Lolitopia

Unread post by lolipedofin » October 13th, 2007, 1:41 am

Retsej wrote:
lolipedofin wrote:Can anyone tell me any good manga that's anime or game converted?? Other than Evangelion and Star Ocean (for me, this two are decent works)
Monster. Manga to anime. The anime possibly surpasses the manga, the reason being that the anime is an exact copy of the manga.
I mean, manga that was created based on anime or game. There's plenty of great manga-to-anime work out there, but can you find any good anime-to-manga works?? they all tend to be crappy.
Uchi kaeru....

Kansho
DESU DESU!
Posts: 740
Joined: May 9th, 2007, 12:16 pm

Unread post by Kansho » October 13th, 2007, 11:25 am

deathknight wrote:
PLAY the visual novel (Heavens Feel concretely)... and you'll find a surprise about Shirou....

And for me, Shirou is a far better character than Shiki xDDDD

When all you Fate newcomers read the whole game, this kind of opinion will end for sure....
Well thats something to look forward to... hopefully when I read it my heart will be lifted...

Still you got to look at it like this. Emiya Shirou's black and white fairy tale drama means that he wouldn't even want to crush an ant because thats not something a "Hero of Justice!" would do. At least Shiki sees the world in a much more realistic grey light and would have no real problem with killing virtually any being who threatens his life or his loved ones. While Emiya would just want to talk or beg for his life which is one fo the few things he's good at. Plus Shiki can skillfully kill even Shinso or Servants in the beginning of the story while Emiya the weakling needs time to level it up like an rpg. I just wish Shiki could show up and cut a certain line on Emiya and then see Emiya's reaction when something in his pants fails to regenerate. (Lets see what the Hero of Justice has to say in that situation! :twisted:)

And I'm not even going to touch the way he lets Everyone Walk. All. Over. Him. with favors for this and you need to do that. What normal guy in his right mind would do favors for EVERYONE at school and let people take advantage of his "altruism" (ie. stupid naivete) EVERY single day! When you look at his alliance with Tohsaka, its quite clear Rin is in charge and is the brains while Emiya just fills in as the maid (Actually this is kind of scary since Emiya's housecleaning and good cooking reminds me of a mixture of Hisui and Kohaku in one person but without the kawaii or moe!)

Oh and btw I don't think the changed title is accurate. My criticism is restricted for just this one character in the manga. I actually like reading about Saber, Rin and the rest its really entertaining for that part minus the Shirou. Plus the artwork for Rin is superb! I just hope they don't make this as censored as the anime was.
► Show Spoiler
Shiki can't kill servants. And you are judging a character only seeing a manga adaptation.
The 3 scenarios of Fate/stay night show the determination and phases of the human life. Shirou evolves. In Heavens Feel for example,
► Show Spoiler
Fate - The kid that only look for dreams
Unlimited Blade Works - The teenager who fulfill his dreams
Heavens Feel - The adult that grows beyond those dreams

Shiki never evolves in that way. According to Nasu, FSN main theme is "conquering oneself."
► Show Spoiler


Judge a character only for you see in a first see is stupid. And more if we are talking of a character like Shirou, who changes his way to see the things and
► Show Spoiler
見せかけの自分はそっと捨ててただありのままで
misekake no jibun ha sotto sutete tada ari no mama de -
Throw away the "fake me" quietly and just be myself.

Beowulf Lee
Crack Addic!
Posts: 197
Joined: May 7th, 2007, 2:02 am

Unread post by Beowulf Lee » October 13th, 2007, 10:19 pm

Go watch some Mushishi like someone already suggested. You won't be disappointed with Ginko at all.

Ack. Heaven's Feel and completely-super-chocolaty-fudged-awesome-Shirou seems so far away.

Also, I'm curious as to the Nasu-magic-logic with why Shiki can't kill Servants. Someone explain it to me?

Kansho
DESU DESU!
Posts: 740
Joined: May 9th, 2007, 12:16 pm

Unread post by Kansho » October 13th, 2007, 11:40 pm

Beowulf Lee wrote:Go watch some Mushishi like someone already suggested. You won't be disappointed with Ginko at all.

Ack. Heaven's Feel and completely-super-chocolaty-fudged-awesome-Shirou seems so far away.

Also, I'm curious as to the Nasu-magic-logic with why Shiki can't kill Servants. Someone explain it to me?
Gar images GAR!!!
► Show Spoiler
Two reasons why Shiki can't kill a servant... skill/strength and perception.

A Servant is a copy, only a proyection of the "main body" in the Throne... so they are already dead and are a phenomenon. As Nasu hint, Shiki can't see the "death" of such a thing like that. Similar like with TATARI, but without a "reversal".
A Servant can move at Mach 1-2... Shiki can't.
A Servant can perform a uber inmediate mortal strike called "Noble Phantasm" :P xD
A Servant is a full "kill machine"...

According to Kinoko:
Q. In the other Type-Moon works, who else besides Arc can fight against Servants?

A- If we're working on the condition of one on one, with an extremely average Noble Phantasm. Generally most of the 27 Ancestors, Kishima Kouma, Aozaki Aoko.
If it's just a defensive fight, but would still be a fight, then Ciel. Shiki (Rakkyo), Shiki (Tsukihime) are no match for Servants....but Ryougi Shiki (3rd personality) might be able to go as far as the Ciel class.

That vs. "average Servants"... Against a "powerful Servant"...
For example, Kinoko said that Lancer can kill Arc if she fails her "Luck check" against the Destiny Interference of his Gae Bolg...
見せかけの自分はそっと捨ててただありのままで
misekake no jibun ha sotto sutete tada ari no mama de -
Throw away the "fake me" quietly and just be myself.

serialies
Crack Desu!
Posts: 396
Joined: October 13th, 2007, 6:05 am

Unread post by serialies » October 14th, 2007, 2:33 am

► Show Spoiler
spoiler just in case...
I order the club sandwich all the time, but I'm not even a member. Man, I don't know how I get away with it.

rubberchicken
Crack Addic!
Posts: 183
Joined: May 14th, 2007, 5:31 pm

Unread post by rubberchicken » October 14th, 2007, 3:58 am

Phoenix Wright?

Of course, the PW manga is additional chapters to the story rather than a retread of existing ones.

Kansho
DESU DESU!
Posts: 740
Joined: May 9th, 2007, 12:16 pm

Unread post by Kansho » October 14th, 2007, 11:32 am

serialies wrote:
► Show Spoiler
spoiler just in case...
Sevants are pure prana... they are a copy of phenomenon... they hadn't have lines or points... like Arc in full moon. Thats that Kinoko says, and if Kinoko says that, then is canon. Servants are a "outside" being, thats the reason why the world itself try to crash their existence and they needs a flux of magic energy and a binding to something "natural", like a Master or a place...
So in theory, if they have a "death"... Shiki can't understand it. So simple. People tends to make Shiki so "uber", but Kinoko says many times that Shiki is very weak, only a human being after all... He only can fight properly under "special circumstances". Shiki can't kill or dash a good Noble Phantasm, so that means that Shiki loses miserably against a "hero" (a UBER human bieng :P)

And a Servant can fight at that speed all the time, Shirou says that he can't see Lancer attacks properly. People tends to underestimate the power level of a Servant, but Kinoko said that a powerful Servant is stronger that any Tsukihime character except for Arc at 30% (She can fight 3 servants at the same time...). Kouma, Aoko and the Ancestors probably are capables to "fight" a average servant. But... in Fate/stay night... no ONE is an average servant. The 10 first Ancestors probably can fight a powerful servant.

Kotomine can't fight a Servant,
► Show Spoiler


And about Lancer... theoricaly, a "reverse destiny" of Gae Bolg can kill Arc becouse is a "mortal strike" that causes you "instant death" if you fail the Luck check (Saber have many LCK, so she survives becouse that). When he kills Arc, Shiki only cut lines that represent "physical destruction/death", but a cursed NF is something more "espiritual/conceptual" than that. And Lancer
► Show Spoiler
But the thing is.... who knows...

I said that becouse Nasu said:
Q. I have a question about the Servants vs. other character answer in the 9th issue of Comptiq. About a Servant with an average Noble Phantasm, who would have one and what rank would that have been?
A: That's a serious question. The level of the Noble Phantasm would be B, and ability being represented by numbers would be called an average Noble Phantasm. Broken Phantasm, Barrier of the Wind King (C), Gae Bolg (thrown) (B), that sort.

On the other hand, those with conceptual effects, destiny interference types fall into a special category. With Gae Bolg (regular), no matter how much Arcueid might be superior to Lancer in numbers, she will be killed depending on her luck, you see
見せかけの自分はそっと捨ててただありのままで
misekake no jibun ha sotto sutete tada ari no mama de -
Throw away the "fake me" quietly and just be myself.

serialies
Crack Desu!
Posts: 396
Joined: October 13th, 2007, 6:05 am

Unread post by serialies » October 14th, 2007, 12:10 pm

so basically nanaya shiki > arc > 3 servants > nanaya shiki...its like rock paper scissors...i know that its "canon" shiki is weak..but iono there really isnt a consistent level throughout =/...o well whats canon is canon i guess (still think arc would surive gae blog though >_>)

oh and about "in fsn no one is a average servant"...iono man normal assassin was pretty crap, wasnt even the real thing
I order the club sandwich all the time, but I'm not even a member. Man, I don't know how I get away with it.

Kansho
DESU DESU!
Posts: 740
Joined: May 9th, 2007, 12:16 pm

Unread post by Kansho » October 14th, 2007, 12:24 pm

so basically nanaya shiki > arc > 3 servants > nanaya shiki...its like rock paper scissors...i know that its "canon" shiki is weak..but iono there really isnt a consistent level throughout =/...o well whats canon is canon i guess (still think arc would surive gae blog though >_>)

oh and about "in fsn no one is a average servant"...iono man normal assassin was pretty crap, wasnt even the real thing[/quote]Nanaya Shiki is weak too... is far weaker than arc... according to power levels, Avenger is stronger than him xD Nanaya only is a ver speed human with a "trumph card", but in raw power... is weak.

Yes, Assassin is weak, but is a ver skilled swordman, thats is sufficient against a normal human being... against Kouma, Aoko, and the Ancestrors... no xD

In terms of pure power. According to fuyuki and his list elaborated for people who actually PLAYED the games...
► Show Spoiler
見せかけの自分はそっと捨ててただありのままで
misekake no jibun ha sotto sutete tada ari no mama de -
Throw away the "fake me" quietly and just be myself.

serialies
Crack Desu!
Posts: 396
Joined: October 13th, 2007, 6:05 am

Unread post by serialies » October 14th, 2007, 1:04 pm

haaaaaa? that list...is a little wierd o_O...i mean if you say "pure power" how do you determine that? saying that fuki-nee is stronger than "fake" shiki (im assuming you mean shiki-tohno-nanaya) >_>...doesnt add up to me
I order the club sandwich all the time, but I'm not even a member. Man, I don't know how I get away with it.

Post Reply