What happened to avalon in Heaven's Feel?*spoilers*

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What happened to avalon in Heaven's Feel?*spoilers*

Unread postby astalotte » June 20th, 2014, 6:21 pm

I always wondered, if arturia was alter, then what happened to her and avalon and in the 2 endings of hf, avalon is either taken somewhere after shirou's destruction or something else happens to it. So? Spill... what happened??!!!!!
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Re: What happened to avalon in Heaven's Feel?*spoilers*

Unread postby Kenzu » June 26th, 2014, 7:56 am

It perished along with Shirou's body. It was formless within it and no one really discovered it in HF. Perhaps it would have been possible to extract it from his corpse, but someone would need to find it. That would be pretty difficult, if not impossible, considering the whole cave came down on him.
In UBW True End it doesn't really matter, though in UBW Good End they might one day discover and extract it. Then, Rin's Saber would be more powerful than in all 3 routes.
But Rin stil wouldn't know how to make the Gem Sword ;)
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Re: What happened to avalon in Heaven's Feel?*spoilers*

Unread postby astalotte » June 26th, 2014, 5:25 pm

Kenzu wrote:It perished along with Shirou's body. It was formless within it and no one really discovered it in HF.;)


Thx for that but I still have questions: How can something said to protect and heal be destroyed? Wouldn't Rin(in hf) have wondered why Shirou healed even after he lost saber? Avalon's a world right, so how can it be destroyed by the grail force which hardly destroyed fuyuki?

For my last question, if avalon transcends time and space like the throne of heroes, then I would understand.
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Re: What happened to avalon in Heaven's Feel?*spoilers*

Unread postby Kenzu » June 30th, 2014, 11:05 am

astalotte wrote:How can something said to protect and heal be destroyed?

It can be quite easy depending on the laws of the world, but when it comes to Avalon in FSN, it’s a bit different. In this case, its shape was changed from a physical object in the form of a sheath, into something that flows within the body. “Destroying it” is simply erasing the possibility from it ever being used or reformed again. Rather than being destroyed, it seizes to exist. You need all pieces to complete the puzzle, right? So since Shirou’s body was destroyed, it probably couldn’t be fully extracted by anyone even if they knew about it.

astalotte wrote:Wouldn't Rin(in hf) have wondered why Shirou healed even after he lost saber?

She probably would attribute his healing to Archer’s arm. His physical as well as magical capabilities increased after all. Before that, I don’t remember Shirou getting any larger wounds that would heal quickly.
Besides, Avalon’s healing largely diminished after he lost Saber. It might have gotten more active after Shirou got Archer’s arm, because it got some sort of supply of greater magical energy. It was an alien thing that was slowly killing Shirou though, so Avalon might have tried to purge it from his body. In the beginning this effect could be restrained, but after the power of the arm was released, it was no longer possible.
That way Avalon would have started having the opposite effect to healing, leading to swords coming out of Shirou’s body wherever he was wounded in the final scenes of HF. Perhaps Archer’s strength was used to withstand the strikes from Kotomine, while Avalon denied Archer’s influence and replaced it with swords.
I think that without Avalon, Archer's arm would destroy Shirou's mind rather than his body. That way Avalon would be killing Shirou's body by denying Archer's arm that was trying to kill his mind.

astalotte wrote:Avalon's a world right, so how can it be destroyed by the grail force which hardly destroyed fuyuki?

The sheath might be called Avalon, not because it is the physical form of a paradise world Avalon, but because it provides the effect of "not being disturbed by anything". The title "The All Distant Utopia" might refer to being impossible to reach. Gilgamesh called it "The Ultimate Defense" in Fate Route. He said what the world Avalon is, and described what the sheath does. I don't think the line meant that the sheath was the world.
It's just a sheath and not a Reality Marble like Unlimited Blade Works, so personally I don't consider this sheath to be the world Avalon, nor something linking to it. King Arthur was supposedly taken to Avalon after his death, but he didn’t have the sheath at the time, right? Sure, Saber might have gotten it from Shirou, returned with it to her timeline and died with it, but I don’t think she would go to Avalon using the sheath. It's just her spirit that would be taken there.

astalotte wrote:if avalon transcends time and space like the throne of heroes, then I would understand.

The world Avalon might transcend time and space like the Throne of Heroes, but not the sheath Avalon. If it actually worked like the galaxy thing from "Men In Black", then all the different timelines would have different Avalon worlds.
If the sheath actually IS the world Avalon, then perhaps the sheath is the physical form of the paradise in the human world and doesn't have any influence on the paradise within the sheath.
Personally, I'd rather say that the sheath Avalon and the world Avalon are different things in FSN.
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Re: What happened to avalon in Heaven's Feel?*spoilers*

Unread postby astalotte » July 1st, 2014, 1:41 am

Thx for the info, you are a rly smart person, btw. Also the avalon thing was rly confusing and compared to every other confusing thing in fsn, it was never rly explained(probably because it's from shirou's POV). When you put it like that -it was destroyed so she never got it back- I feel really sorry for Arturia in HF. First alter, then this? Nasu, you are a rly cruel man.

Although it would be awesome if Arturia could summon avalon as a reality marble - faeries will destroy and protect like Iskander's Ionian Hetairoi(only weaker)! Hmm... It was fairly obvious avalon was the cause of the swords coming from shirou's body as it was the reason shirou's element is sword(which is just weird). Also, when writing this, the fact 'avalon works best when the owner is around' completely escaped me. Leading on from that, how was Kerry able to save shirou? *Chuckle* Reading and writing this makes me remember what an idiot shirou is/was. My best wishes are that this is somehow explained in the remake, somehow, though i doubt.
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Re: What happened to avalon in Heaven's Feel?*spoilers*

Unread postby Kenzu » July 9th, 2014, 5:40 pm

astalotte wrote:it would be awesome if Arturia could summon avalon as a reality marble - faeries will destroy and protect like Iskander's Ionian Hetairoi(only weaker)!

Faries from Avalon vs Gate of Babylon... Yeah, that wouldn't end well. Though the slaughter could be pretty fun to watch. Also Saber's reaction if she had thought that this was a good idea.

As for another argument for the sheath Avalon not being the world Avalon would be the name Gate of Babylon. It wasn't really a gate that had a defensive system of firing treasures at invaders, right? If it was, then a Fate Zero Berserker-like guy could get rich pretty easily.
That would be kind of rad, but still... a bit too absurd, wouldn't you say?

astalotte wrote:how was Kerry able to save shirou?

Probably because Avalon was filled with his magical energy. Kiritsugu's capacity was much greater then Shirou's at the start of FSN. That way, even with Saber absent, it would be enough to save young Shirou's life.
Then again, it's not like Shirou was missing any of his vitals like when he was stabbed by Lancer or hit by Berserker. It's just that his vitals were failing. In that case, Avalon would have acted like a powerful life supporting appliance. It's not like he was healed instantly, since he DID go to a hospital later.
Or a mix of the two above. Avalon filled with Kiritsugu's magical energy acted like a powerful life supporting appliance.
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Re: What happened to avalon in Heaven's Feel?*spoilers*

Unread postby Tealeaf » December 19th, 2016, 6:48 am

Hi Kenzu, you really know your stuff. Thanks for writing all that.
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