*Spoiler* question on Akiha...

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*Spoiler* question on Akiha...

Unread postby deathknight » June 5th, 2007, 12:45 pm

Hi this is sort of a spoiler so just wanted to put that here as a warning for those who havent played through the game.


Anyway I was wondering about Akiha's plans in her storyline. If the Tohno history is to be believed pretty much everyone except for Makihisa and a few others died at a young age or in childbirth miscarriages. And I read somewhere that Akiha already has a familay arranged marriage with the head of the Kugamine branch whose described as porcine in appearance (rich fat pig anyone :)) Its evident this was a marriage for money as much as keeping it in the family (the Tohnos are similar to the Nanayas with the incest thing).

But in Akiha's ending in the good ending in particular Akiha lives after she got laid and I was wondering if anyone thinks she got pregnant from that too. It would be pretty ironic if the next heir of the Tohno family had Nanaya blood and demon blood mixed together. Does anyone think Akiha may have purposely been planning to have a child with her Niisan? If she knows that odds are she could die at a young age from her family's cursed blood would some part of her inside want to have the next heir with her beloved brother?
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Unread postby Message » June 5th, 2007, 3:16 pm

I don't think Akiha was plotting anything with her Nii-san, she's always been too shy to admit to herself just how much she was in love with him. More importantly, if you recall her request right after the first part of the Akiha love scene, she was actually planning on dying quite soon. She knew she was about to invert, so she asked Shiki to kill her before she lost herself to her demon blood. So a child should have been the last thing on her mind.

Although the idea of a Tohno/Nanaya hybrid is kind of... extremely scary. O___o
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..........

Unread postby Impractic_Shiki » June 5th, 2007, 3:31 pm

I agree with Message.

As for mixing the bloodlines, there'd be a chance of serious mental orders with the child as it came of age (in terms of impulses/desires). The male members of the Tohno household seem to have more severe problems than the female half based on what was presented in Tsukihime.

The other question is the bloodline of Shiki. We're not really sure how strong the Nanaya blood is in him per say. It's never specifically mentioned (to my recollection) if he was the son of the head of the Nanaya household or say---the son of a branch family or such.

If his blood is weak---the Tohno blood would prevail to either the inversion or "normality" in terms of a child.

If it's strong (which can be argued based on his urges with Arcueid to kill her/his eyes)---it's unpredictable how they'd mix. It could cause a sense of self-hate in which the child would want to kill itself. One line could just take dominance.

Sounds like a fanfiction work for the fans to go forth on. >_>
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Unread postby Message » June 5th, 2007, 3:58 pm

Impractic_Shiki wrote:If it's strong (which can be argued based on his urges with Arcueid to kill her/his eyes)---

I don't think Shiki's Mystic Eyes were in any way related to his Nanaya blood, though..?
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Unread postby deathknight » June 5th, 2007, 4:29 pm

Yeah but Message don't you remember Akiha had Shiki cum into her man! :lol:

I mean realistically speaking (yeah I know this is anime but who cares) when a guy shoots his load into a healthy mature woman theres a 90% chance she gets pregnant the first time. So if the game hadn't ended right there and the story was followed 9 months later I bet you would see Akiha with a fat belly and larger breasts as a little memento from her love night. That would make for some interesting news at her private school. Man I would love to see that! :wink:

In fact it could be arguable that the heartbeat Akiha felt in the good ending is perhaps a new life growing in her... What do you think?

Oh and the Mystic eyes of death are not a special Nanaya family trait. Shiki wasnt born with it he only got it because of True Shiki ripping a hole in his chest. Essentially it seems anyone in Tsukihime who suffers a life threatening injury that would normally kill them gets the Eyes of Death power if they survive (Like Ryogi Shiki did after her car accident)
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Unread postby Atvaark » June 5th, 2007, 5:05 pm

wrong. he always had his eyes, they were just awaken by that life threatening accident.

you are born with abilities like that, they can remain dormant until something triggers that ability. or heritage, however you see it.
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Unread postby Impractic_Shiki » June 5th, 2007, 5:17 pm

I don't think Shiki's Mystic Eyes were in any way related to his Nanaya blood, though..?


It's never clearly mentioned as I recall. More often then not it's referred to as "I don't know much about it" and "mysterious".

In both Shiki and SHIKI's cases, it was apparently triggered by the near death experience.

There isn't much stated about the Nanaya blood except their bloodlust against the unnatural. So in theory it could be a trait of that bloodline. Also theoretically---the other SHIKI could have shared the same trigger due to the influence of Shiki given their mental connection upon the inversion and death scenario.

It's one of those not fully explained details that leaves the Tsukihime world open for revisiting and interpretation.

Essentially it seems anyone in Tsukihime who suffers a life threatening injury that would normally kill them gets the Eyes of Death power if they survive (Like Ryogi Shiki did after her car accident)


Then theoretically Akiha (from almost killing herself by doing something as risky as giving half her life to Shiki) should possess them or Ciel.

I'll have to agree with Atvaark that something special has to correlate with the eyes. Arcueid had lived for a long time, and she only knew of it. So I'm speculating the Nanaya blood has some influence on it if not fully connected.

In fact it could be arguable that the heartbeat Akiha felt in the good ending is perhaps a new life growing in her... What do you think?


I don't remember a heartbeat. I remember her talking about feeling Shiki's life or such equivalently.

However, that's fairly standard for anime titles in which they don't want to say a character died and get mass audience backlash. He could have made her pregnant but it seems each case with the Tohno family is special.

Akiha might not be able to conceive due to how her blood influences her. Or have a harder time at it.

I would have thought Kohaku would be pregant given all the body rape she's taken in---but the connection element mayhaps prevents that somehow.

Given it has the eroge element, it's a land of much sex without consequences.

So I'm taking it as the hopeful that Shiki will somehow force himself back into the world to be with her.
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Unread postby deathknight » June 6th, 2007, 2:39 am

Yeah and I wondering something else. Akiha needs heat not blood to survive unlike the dead apostles. So technically the most efficient method of transferring heat is not blood drinking imo but rather having a hot night in bed with a partner. So wouldn't SHiki have been a little smarter by proposing he and Akiha sleep together instead of her draining his blood :D
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...........

Unread postby Impractic_Shiki » June 6th, 2007, 4:19 am

Yeah and I wondering something else. Akiha needs heat not blood to survive unlike the dead apostles. So technically the most efficient method of transferring heat is not blood drinking imo but rather having a hot night in bed with a partner. So wouldn't SHiki have been a little smarter by proposing he and Akiha sleep together instead of her draining his blood


Well, that's at best a very temporary solution given how long sex lasts. She'd quickly lose the gained heat. Plus her body is giving off heat of its own.

That also doesn't really allow her to have that excess energy for her normal lady-like duties either.
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Re: ...........

Unread postby deathknight » June 7th, 2007, 12:49 am

Well, that's at best a very temporary solution given how long sex lasts. She'd quickly lose the gained heat. Plus her body is giving off heat of its own.

That also doesn't really allow her to have that excess energy for her normal lady-like duties either.


I don't think she would complain though...

But theres been something bothering me about her health though. In the good ending in the Akiha route even though Akiha had her life given back by Shiki's sacrifice how long would she have managed to survive before her Tohno blood reawakens in her and causes her to be killed? Could she have lived a normal human lifespan or would she have been doomed to die eventually in her 20s or so by her Tohno blood? This is assuming she is at perfect health no longer burdened by supporting Shiki's life. I would think in any of the other routes where Akiha was continuously supporting Shiki's life she would have lasted even less and would be doomed to fall to her blood earlier right? Plus why did Akiha say in her good ending she would have to spend the rest of her life in the Tohno mansion after she graduated form school?? She could always have taken vacations or whatever she was hardly forced to stay in the mansion.
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.........

Unread postby Impractic_Shiki » June 7th, 2007, 1:53 am

I don't think she would complain though...


I believe she would. She would likely consider it teasing or mockery if done if asked for in such excess. She sees herself as having to be the proper head of the Tohno household so she would act accordingly. Based on her personality, their moment was like embracing a moment of weakness---in all likelihood I see her as the type that would be more dictating of the sex.

But theres been something bothering me about her health though. In the good ending in the Akiha route even though Akiha had her life given back by Shiki's sacrifice how long would she have managed to survive before her Tohno blood reawakens in her and causes her to be killed? Could she have lived a normal human lifespan or would she have been doomed to die eventually in her 20s or so by her Tohno blood? This is assuming she is at perfect health no longer burdened by supporting Shiki's life. I would think in any of the other routes where Akiha was continuously supporting Shiki's life she would have lasted even less and would be doomed to fall to her blood earlier right?


Akiha as well as her father made a note about her blood. It was stated that it wasn't especially strong in her in the journal, and she also commented on herself in comparison to SHIKI. The male members of the household are the ones that seem to really suffer from it--I was lead to the impression that there aren't many female members in the Tohno family line (it seemed to give off the air that they married out and tended to have male heirs)---also due to the implication of her battles with the family line to keep the mansion and herself as a strong head. Inversion also seems to present itself by a certain age as I recall by demonstrating certain qualities. Akiha's body was only so needing of heat because of Shiki. Otherwise she wouldn't have needed blood/heat to such an obvious degree.

As for it getting her killed. That depends on how the Tohno blood would have made her act if it ever did cause an inversion. The journal listed suicides, murders, and so forth. In all likelihood---she would have been like Shiki based off the Kohaku route. She'd live short of Ciel being able to kill her. Given Ciel had trouble with Shiki just---I don't believe Ciel could really have defeated her anyway.

As such, she's quite fine now.

Plus why did Akiha say in her good ending she would have to spend the rest of her life in the Tohno mansion after she graduated form school?? She could always have taken vacations or whatever she was hardly forced to stay in the mansion.


To wait for Shiki is the implication like she always waited for him before when he was with the Ariha's. She's waiting for him to come back to the home that she prepared for him. Given he disappeared from there, it's likely that he'd return from the same clearing as well.

He ended his existence with his eyes to free Akiha's ailing body. So if by some chance he brought himself back in a manner to the Ciel true ending---that's where he'd be.
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Unread postby Qaenyin Angelblade » June 7th, 2007, 2:12 pm

It's heavily suggested both in the Akiha True ending and the sidestory of Kagetsu Tohya that Akiha is the pivotal character in, that Shiki somehow survived in some manner. Exactly how he survived, or what condition he is in, is never explained as far as I know.

Then again it may be simply that what amount of him was still left that SHIKI didn't steal remains behind as a part of Akiha, but she did clearly state she could sense him alive, faintly. It's possible he had enough of his own life force remaining that after severing the connection between himself and Akiha, he had just enough to keep himself alive.
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Re: ..........

Unread postby Shikiller » June 8th, 2007, 12:02 am

Impractic_Shiki wrote:I agree with Message.


The other question is the bloodline of Shiki. We're not really sure how strong the Nanaya blood is in him per say. It's never specifically mentioned (to my recollection) if he was the son of the head of the Nanaya household or say---the son of a branch family or such.

If his blood is weak---the Tohno blood would prevail to either the inversion or "normality" in terms of a child.


about shiki
Shiki is the son of the head of the Nanayas,there is a history about is father and him in Kagetsu Tohya
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Unread postby deathknight » June 21st, 2007, 7:07 pm

Then again it may be simply that what amount of him was still left that SHIKI didn't steal remains behind as a part of Akiha, but she did clearly state she could sense him alive, faintly. It's possible he had enough of his own life force remaining that after severing the connection between himself and Akiha, he had just enough to keep himself alive.


You know there is a discontinuity imo in that fact. Akiha basically used her origami to plunder half of Shiki's life after he got killed by True Shiki and True Shiki somehow stole the other half of Shiki's life. But when True Shiki stole his life he got the Mystic Eyes of death power from the theft. Why is it Akiha didn't get Shiki's mystic eyes when she took in his life?
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Unread postby marus » June 21st, 2007, 8:11 pm

I thought SHIKI got his Mystic Eyes of Death (or is it Mystic Eyes of Life?) from Roa, not Shiki. Which would make more sense, since they actually see different things.
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Unread postby Eriol-kun » June 21st, 2007, 11:02 pm

Nah, I don't think it's either: Remember that Roa sought good bodies (ones with potentially good Magic Circuits) and families with good stature, which is why he chose the Tohno family in the first place to use as a host.

If I recall correctly, True Shiki had two different abilities in the Far Side of the Moon route (gosh it's been a long time so sorry if I'm ambiguous, I'll look into it later)... well, anyways, I believe it was due to the Inversion Impulse that stemmed from his bloodline that he was capable of having the eyes that could see lines of death (or existence, whatever), but not the dots.
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Unread postby Nerroth » June 22nd, 2007, 3:00 am

Is the story from KT considered to be an official continuation of Akiha's True End from Tsukihime?
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Unread postby Message » June 22nd, 2007, 7:57 am

Careful, no unmasked KT spoilers in this thread.

Eriol-kun wrote:I believe it was due to the Inversion Impulse that stemmed from his bloodline that he was capable of having the eyes that could see lines of death (or existence, whatever), but not the dots.

From what I recall he could also only see lines on living things, not inanimate objects. I believe that's what marus meant with 'eyes of life'.
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Unread postby Eriol-kun » June 22nd, 2007, 1:51 pm

Ah, that's right. I forgot about that part.
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Unread postby chasmirror » June 22nd, 2007, 9:57 pm

Shiki's eyes are not a part of Nanaya's blood, but it is related.

Nanaya bloodline has special eyes that allows the user to see things that can't normally be seen by regular eyes(this part is explained in one of the bonus episode of Kagetsu Toya). In case of Shiki, when he died, his eyes were 'connected' to the concept of death(before Akiha revived him), and now could understand and "perceive" death. That's how Shiki got the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception.

SHIKI(the real Tohno Shiki who had already inverted) seems to have similar power, but not quite. Shiki's eyes see death, whereas SHIKI's eyes sees points of life. SHIKI kills by destroying the target's life. Shiki kills by simply ACTIVATING the death of the target. They seem similar so it appears as if one got the power from another, but they are two separate powers born out of two separate sources.


Akiha wasn't planning to be pregnated by Shiki, nor does she ever get pregnant after her ending.

Again, in one of the bonus episode of Kagetsu Tohya, it is explained that Shiki did survive after Akiha's ending, thanks to a certain curry-loving person(?) who had been nursing him back to health. But there is a reason why Shiki went so far to kill SHIKI even with his condition at the time. Akiha, by maintaining a line between her and Shiki, has been keeping Shiki alive. But SHIKI was drawing energy for his life from Shiki, even more so when he went on a killing spree with his new power. The burden on Akiha has increased, who had already been barely supporting herself, Shiki, and SHIKI. Realizing this, Shiki was trying to free Akiha by severing his connection to her with killing SHIKI and allowing himself to die. It is assumed that the certain someone(?) with indepth knowledge of magic kept him alive with some other means, which is why Akiha wasn't inverted at the end of her ending.

Tohno's blood undoubtedly has a potential to inverse its carrier, but the blood in Akiha was not actually so strong. The inversion is fated to every Tohno family member, but if the blood is not so strong in them, they usually die naturally before the inversion happens. Akiha was expected to live a full, normal life until that fateful day when she used her power to revive Shiki. Her inversion in her lifetime is not exactly unavoidable, since her power was forced to be awakened. If she limits the usage, AND cuts her life line to Shiki, she can live rather a normal life.

As far as their theoretical-child, the mixing of their blood really wouldn't cause any problem. Nanaya Family had continued to live as demon-slayers, but this choice of family business was not a genetic eventuality. It was more like a family policy, which in the end gloomed and nurtured their power as a demon-slayers, but that doesn't mean it will clash with demon blood if the bloodlines were mixed. In fact, some of the Nanaya family members in the past has been the other descendents of demons(mentioned in Kagetsu Tohya). Nanaya bloodlines does carry certain power and physical abilities, but it doesn't have anything that would directly conflict with demon blood, because it is more of a genetic trait than spiritual.

Also, Akiha WAS engaged to someone in her relatives(far, far removed, of course). He is a son of a man named Kugamine, who is actually the pricipal of the school which Shiki and Akiha attend. But, again in Kagetsu Tohya, it is announced that the engagement is off due to Akiha's disgust of both the father and the son.
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