Favorite Tsukihime-world Girl (Has this been done already?)

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Who is your favorite girl from the world of Tsukihime

Arcueid Brunestud
70
26%
Ciel
21
8%
Hisui
41
15%
Akiha Tohno
53
20%
Kohaku
31
12%
Aoko Aozaki
14
5%
Satsuki Yumiduka
21
8%
Len (Loli form)
11
4%
White Len (from Melty Blood)
3
1%
Mecha-Hisui (from Melty Blood)
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 265

Unread postby Mkilbride » May 23rd, 2007, 1:25 pm

Ahika, is nice, but I get this little girl feel, from her scene, ya know...nothing wrong with FLAT woman, but she just...well, seemed...really kid like to me, I mean, sure, other than that, she's graceful and pretty beautiful.

Kohaku is sad, so is Ciel, it's hard to say, really. Kohaku has one horrible life-time and Ciel had tons of bad ones.



She was also semi-brain washed by the church, and cmon guys, if she didn't kill Shiki, a horrible travesty would happen again, she was looking for a way, for both of them to come out, ok?


Hisui, is the only char in it, that has a decent life, sure, she acts emo to protect Kohaku, but other than that, she has no horrible past or horrible future, in any of the endings, really.(Cept, if you count what Kohaku does in so many endings, you know what)


Arc, Ciel, Ahika, Kohaku, all of them, have horrible pasts / futures, without Shiki, so it's hard to say.
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Unread postby Impractic_Shiki » May 23rd, 2007, 6:39 pm

Arc, Ciel, Ahika, Kohaku, all of them, have horrible pasts / futures, without Shiki, so it's hard to say.


The best point being there: "without Shiki". You have to recall this is not only a horror-esque story but also a story where you pick a girl.

You can't condemn anyone of them really for their actions. They're all pretty not normal and probably all suffer psychological disorders to some degree due to extensive loneliness or repression.

With the exception of Hisui, they all pretty much go crazy with Shiki's misguided/confused/deep love. >_>
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Unread postby Mkilbride » May 23rd, 2007, 11:56 pm

That's what I kinda ment, with my post.

Hisui's the only one here who could not have Shiki and still have a good life.


Everyone else is doomed to a horrible life of being lonely and sad, so yeah.
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Unread postby shadow_Hiei » May 24th, 2007, 3:09 am

Impractic_Shiki wrote:
Arc, Ciel, Ahika, Kohaku, all of them, have horrible pasts / futures, without Shiki, so it's hard to say.


The best point being there: "without Shiki". You have to recall this is not only a horror-esque story but also a story where you pick a girl.

You can't condemn anyone of them really for their actions. They're all pretty not normal and probably all suffer psychological disorders to some degree due to extensive loneliness or repression.

With the exception of Hisui, they all pretty much go crazy with Shiki's misguided/confused/deep love. >_>


So you're saying that just because someone had a rough past, you shouldn't hold them responsible for their actions?

You can somewhat take the blame off of Akiha, since the only time that she did anything that wasn't done with the best of intentions was when she fell victim to her blood, but there's no good excuse for what Ciel and Kohaku did. There's no good excuse for betraying your friend in one of the most complete ways possible when he needs your help and you may have acess to resources that can help him, and Akiha and SHIKI didn't do shit to Kohaku... the former was trying to help her.

I can't blame Shiki for letting them off easy (I'd have a really hard time killing someone that I had feelings for too, or even just a friend as he viewed Kohaku in the Hisui route), and more power to him for turning them instead of killing them, but you can't justify selfish actions by blaming it on their past.


Mkilbride wrote:That's what I kinda ment, with my post.

Hisui's the only one here who could not have Shiki and still have a good life.


Everyone else is doomed to a horrible life of being lonely and sad, so yeah.


Arcueid and Ciel might not be all that happy without Shiki, but I think that Kohaku and Akiha probably managed just fine after all of the endings.

With the obvious exception of Hisui's true ending. :(


Kohaku likes Hisui and Akiha, so she'll cope eventually, and Akiha has friends as well. (not to mention that Shiki will probably visit the manor every now and then to see how everyone's doing) Arcueid will continue being lonely in the far side of the moon routes, but that's all she knew, so that makes it better.

The only one that's really destined to live a crappy life outside of her route is Ciel. (her life's probably pretty short after all that, anyways, assuming that she doesn't go on to live a bit more normally, in which case, her life may not be all that crappy)
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Unread postby joddo » May 24th, 2007, 4:37 am

Mkilbride wrote:Hisui, is the only char in it, that has a decent life, sure, she acts emo to protect Kohaku, but other than that, she has no horrible past or horrible future, in any of the endings, really.(Cept, if you count what Kohaku does in so many endings, you know what)


I'd say this can be argued on. Certainly Hisui hadn't had anything terrible happen to her in her life, but to restricting yourself to live in a closed space, so to speak, isn't exactly happy either. From the way she, at times, stared out of the window we could see that she's missing her old life but can't do a thing about it, and in the her true ending we can see that although she's slowly returning to normal life, it won't be without struggles.

Granted, I don't see Hisui as one of the sadder girls though. But I don't see Kohaku as one either - certainly, she has had a tough life, but how does she herself see it anymore..? Ever since she killed off her emotions she hasn't felt a thing, so she herself doesn't feel any sadness in the way her life has ended up, all that sadness is felt by the other characters and, eventually, us. Well okay, in her own and Hisui's endings we could say that she's getting her emotions back, but in none of those cases it's particularly sad: In her own ending she's certainly happy and you could say that it's only better to let her/her memories rest, as in Hisui's endings.


Hmmh, that was quite a meaningless rant. :)
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Unread postby Impractic_Shiki » May 24th, 2007, 3:17 pm

So you're saying that just because someone had a rough past, you shouldn't hold them responsible for their actions?


No, I'm saying I don't hold them responsible for their actions because they all appear to suffer from psychological disorders. Their mental state likely isn't the best. I'm sure it'd be more readily apparent if you had more stuff from their POVs but you can tell just by reading Shiki's thoughts on how iffy his mental processes are (the Tohno family itself is known for disorders itself). This is a game and not real life. In this ideal game situation---Shiki's influence basically allows a stabilization for them.

It's a rather basic formula. Remember the old NES Mario games? The princess got kidnapped. Mario had to save her to ensure a safe life and prosperous future for the Mushroom Kingdom.

Tsukihime is like that on a more complex level. Since your actions result in the romantic endings of each girl you can't surmise they'll be fine based off other relationships. Shiki is "most important" because of the type of game it is. If you observe some of the endings---there is a heavy need for him.

Arc doesn't mind if Shiki likes other girls as long as Shiki likes her. Ciel also appears to have a similar attitude in observance of her good harem-esque end as well as the Arc True and Good routes. She steps aside for Shiki and lets him be yet continues to watch over him. Akiha is rather simple. In all routes except for hers its basically---I'll always wait for you Nii-chan with the exception of the Kohaku route where her jealously explodes. Hisui has a similar attitude of observance---quiet but caring. Kohaku either lives or dies dependent on your giving of the ribbon to justify her existence. In the Arc/Ciel/Akiha routes it's a quiet watching from afar bit yet.
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Unread postby shadow_Hiei » May 24th, 2007, 6:43 pm

Can't be held responsible my ass. They were able to not only fully comprehend, but to think about and plan what they were doing, so that means that they had enough control and were grounded enough in reality that you can't just dismiss them as not responsible for their actions.

Its not like Shiki where they just lose it and can't think straight or control themselves and their instincts take over and make go on angry destructive fits.


They clearly understood and made conscious decisions to do what they were doing. That's enough to hold them responsible in my book.

Only exception to that would be Akiha, since her mixed blood was forcing her dark side to take over... its the same as being posessed.
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Unread postby Impractic_Shiki » May 24th, 2007, 7:36 pm

Shiki is like you said, but it's not purely instinctive. He basically flipped out into SHIKI's psychosis or gave into voices similar to a someone suffering from multiple personality disorder (Nanaya blood). Normally such a person would be institutionalized or be put on medication. So I don't see how you could call that fully comprehensive.

Let's move down the list:

Arcueid. She's a vampire. That's the basic point there. The dynamic of her actions was based on all that she knew. She's similar to a child in most respects. That's why they have to be raised and taught. IF you left children to their own doings and had them survive on their own---you'd have a very feral take what you want aspect. Which is shown in correlation to her actions where Shiki doesn't intervene and choose her.

Ciel. You've heard her story, no? Equivalently she became a research specimen of the church after her body was forced to murder her parents for Roa's bloodthirst---that also being after she isolated herself in her room for how long. After that she was basically tortured for an unspecified amount of time by the church.

If you awoke only to die over and over again---a normal brain would snap. Humans require certain psychological needs to function normally. So after they gave up on the continual murder---they sent her out to kill and continue killing. Basically she was pushed back to a feral state of constant live or die.

In Tsukihime with Ciel---if you're focusing on her story in the either Ciel routes:

She was basically a bottle of pain and death-dealing that was forced into a school setting to observe a target. When she attempted to attack Shiki she was dealing with the fragmented emotions that had been deeply buried after trying to survive the continual amount of death and pain that her body knew. Still haunted by her memories as Roa---she became obsessed in her revenge as a manner of augmenting that turmoil into a channel. So I can forgive her for her attempts on Shiki's life as can Shiki. The fact is in the end---he was able to pull her from that. However, she was still suffering from probably clinical depression, clinical rage, and probably more then that.

Hisui: There isn't as much to say on her. She became repressed in the exchange for Kohaku. She's the only one I'd say is likely fully sane. However, she's abnormal in terms of playing the switched role for the sake of her sister. A bit of a demented love some could argue.

Akiha: SHIKI and Shiki. SHIKI tried to murder her and got Shiki instead. So she basically saw the family she had grown to know (and actually hold affection for---the one being Shiki)---die. She managed to save him and equivalently siphon off her life for him. She had to replenish heat to keep him alive. Shiki, in turn, was accepted as her reason for living as she tried to deal with the guilt/fondness that came about when thinking of what he had done for her. Plus the forbidden love of someone raised as family as a brother and dealing with those mixed emotions.

So we equivalently have highly traumatic experiences in sync. Having to drink blood from Kohaku and so forth.

Kohaku: Child rape. It's clinically proven that no child is ever left unscarred by that.

Staring outside the window at a normal life while staying in the dark mansion to be forced into intercourse and pleasuring a man that could snap her in two. As she herself explained she didn't hate Akiha or Shiki---she basically used it as a mean for living. That kind of confused thinking---she obviously didn't have a clear mind. Which explains why the ribbon itself held the key in the end to whether she stabbed herself with a knife or not. She's the only one who really heavily planned any of it. However: I wouldn't count it as highly conscious. Her real self and this phony self were disconnected in such a continual context. She really couldn't even identify herself as anything but a doll.

If you listen to her talk in the Hisui route, she basically doesn't realize it until the end. Which is why she basically takes her life. Shiki didn't stop her that time since his attention was on her sister---but he still helped her understand it.

Because they can plan means they have their humanity left to some extend. But given how warped and twisted they are in waiting---I can't hold them responsible nor could probably any court. The insanity plea is there for a reason. They could likely all claim it (and win). However, I doubt any would given the self-justice theme of the supernatural world in the work.

So I politely disagree.


The basic summary being: Most seem to have withdrawn themselves to such an extent that only a fragment of themselves seems to exist in the world. One going for the sole sake of existence. Most have been damaged to such an extent prior that it's hard to believe Shiki could have such an impact. But that's the romantic atmosphere of being a total savior, I guess. ....and a reason for the spastic sex, I guess.

So their past doesn't give a reason for their behavior but rather the effect that the past had on their psyche which really distorts the planned level/consciousness of their actions that you say grounds them. I just don't see it myself.

That's my interpretation, anyway. There are other views obviously.
Last edited by Impractic_Shiki on May 24th, 2007, 10:14 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Unread postby Mkilbride » May 24th, 2007, 9:31 pm

Yes, Ciel's rage is scary, well, all the girls in this game are.

Ciel see's Shiki with Ark: DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ahika see's Shiki with Arc: Your geting a beating!!!!!!!

Arc see's Shiki with Ciel: Rawr!! Shiki!! your cheater!



Ciel's response's are funniest, because at least Arc wait's for an explination, but Ciel just jumps to go pwn the shite outa anyone she see's with Siki(A girl, I mean)
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Unread postby Qaenyin Angelblade » May 25th, 2007, 11:27 am

I will just state this:

There is a reason why people who kill other people due to insanity are shut in mental institutions(at least in this country) rather than put on death row. They are not responsible for their own actions but are too much of a danger to be allowed to roam freely.

Do I think Ciel is wrong in attempting to kill Shiki?

It's hard to say. Considering how little we know about how Roa acts when in full control of a body, she may have had no direct way to tell even if it was Roa or Shiki under control at any given time. For all she knew it could have been Roa acting like Shiki. In that respect, if it was Roa, she would have been in the right attempting to kill him. Even if it WAS Shiki, it was highly likely if not completely certain(to her at least, and, if it wasn't Shiki who was possessed, it probably would have been completely certain) that Shiki would become under Roa's control within a fairly short period of time. In that respect, killing Shiki before Roa was completely under control and could fight back or escape or choose a new host to reincarnate into would be the most effective way to ensure he could not come back(in fact I think it is highly likely that if she had killed Shiki that Roa would have been unable to reincarnate. He had not yet chosen a new host).

Also, keep in mind that she had been possessed by Roa. Between her brainwashing from the church and simply the trauma of what Roa had forced her to do while she was possessed, she likely WISHED someone had killed HER before he got control over her. As such she would naturally consider that if Roa got control of him, Shiki would think the same way, and that killing him before that happened would be merciful.

So from her perspective(which could from many points of view be in the right), killing Shiki would be the right thing to do. The fact that she overcame all of that and spared him is in fact a massive accomplishment on her part. If you want a comparison, her killing Shiki would not be much different from Shiki killing Satsuki in the Far Side of the Moon arcs. He spared her the pain of having to commit murder and atrocities by killing her before she completely lost control. How would Ciel killing Shiki be very different, if we didnt already know he would survive if she spared him?
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Unread postby potaatti » May 27th, 2007, 1:36 pm

Hmm.. I decided to vote Ciel as I like her a bit more than Arcueid due to her mature personality. And she is also otherwise really cool. :)

Though socially rehabilitated Arc would be pretty hot, too. :D
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Unread postby DrmChsr0 » May 27th, 2007, 5:37 pm

You all forget one thing about Ciel's path:

It is totally skippable~ :3


Also, I love Kohaku ;-;

I can't help it ;-; Her life is so sad... Unlike Ciel's path, which is

totally skippable,


you really can't skip finding out Kohaku's path...

(assuming you all didn't stop at Arc, lol)

Arc reminds me of this girl I know in real life :3 Fits her to a T, even.
That note.

That note. That note. That note. That note. That note. That note. That note. That note. That note. That note. That note. That note. That note. That note. That note. That note. That note. That note. That note. That note. That note. That note. That note. That note. That note. That note. That note.
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Unread postby Naota » June 4th, 2007, 8:08 pm

Oh sure, so I'm the only one to vote for poor Yumizuka, in the park, cold and alone T_T. Show some compassion for the vampire classmate :P
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Unread postby Silverman » June 6th, 2007, 3:52 am

Arc is the first, Akiha the second, and Satsuki the third.
Darn, they all drinks blood...
Ciel is cool, but not my favorite :wink:
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Unread postby Elvendagger » June 14th, 2007, 9:35 pm

Akiha... 'cause well....I like her character... Also her powers... and looks... 8)
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Unread postby aldeayeah » June 15th, 2007, 9:31 am

I can't see enough Kohaku love! MOETSUKIRO!!! *votes*

...Hey, just thought about it, and there's a grand total of SEVEN eroscenes involving Kohaku in TH+KT:

Near Side - Akiha dream scene BJ
Near Side - Kohaku dream scene BJ
Ciel's Route - OMG RAEP'D BY SHIKI-SAN
Hisui's Route - WTF RAEP'D BY SHIKI-SAMA
Hisui's Route - LOL HISUI COSPLAY NOW WHO IS RAEPING WHO?
Kohaku's Route - At least, normal sex!
Flower of Thanatos - HAWT LESBIAN TWINCEST

If that isn't favoritism, just what is it?

About Ciel:

Some people are forgetting Ciel only actually kills you AFTER you decide to kill her.

I like Ciel's role in most of Tsukihime.

...What ruins her impression on me are the scenes between her emotional breakdown and the end of her route (which is awesome, the True end I mean). All the good points of the character seem to disappear (mystery, maturity and coolness). Which is something rather unfortunate for what's supposed to be the climactic part of the story.

And she's doomed to the role of the laughingstock in all sequels. While on the other hand, we get almost nothing about young innocent ponytail Elesia---ahhh, so much wasted moe potential...

It looks as if the creators didn't like her that much, ne?
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Unread postby Uh Oh Yoh » June 15th, 2007, 11:39 am

Kohaku > Arcueid > Hisui > Ciel > Akiha > Len > Robo Hisui

Kohaku
Has nice eyes.
I gotta say, I think I liked kohaku because she closely resembles what I feel like sometimes. Not like I'm some emo loser, but sometimes its easier to smile and pretend that it didn't hurt when it really did.
Also it takes alot of courage to get raped and not be all mind fucked for the rest of your life(even though she went on a twisted path or revenge).
I always thought that blue ribbon looked good on her. EVEN IN BED.


Arcueid
Has nice smile.
Gotta love the whimsical natured ones. I always thought it'd be cool to have a girl who's so timid because of her lack of understanding that she doesn't know when shes being insulted, its a cute quality and rare.
Red eyes and blonde hair mm mm good.


Hisui
Has nice grace
Elegant is the only word I can describe hisui with. Its a nice quality to have but it does get in the way of relationships, which is why hisui was third and not 1st or 2nd.
Her inability to being touched is a real deal breaker, if she was a real girl I'd make jokes about it with her until she'd cave in.
I've never seen a girl with grey eyes before thats a nice quality I'd like to see someday.


Ciel
Has sharp swords
Ciel is probably hated for a couple reasons. Personally I always almost considered her a boy because of how she acted.
-Being the only "church" member, part of an outside establishment that hunts down irregularities as part of their contradictory religion. Aka thou shalt not kill but ima kill anyways.
-Shes french, no one likes the french
-Anal is naughty

I'll have my sex like my curry, brown and dirty.



Akiha
is a bitch
Ok I never really did like akiha, how would you feel if you came back to your house, after being invited. And you find yourself constantly badgered about meaningless shit like: OH NII SAN UR BACK SO LATE IMA MAKE SNIDE COMMENTS AND FLICK MY HAIR. Jesus christ shes the little sister from hell, I personally really don't like the fact her character design falls close to aoko aozoki, I think they got bored with how she looked and were like hey lets make it even more confusing, hell if the game wasn't translated I'd be like WTF when I see her hair turn red.


Len
is loli
I feel so wrong even thinking about what shiki does in the 2nd doujin game to her, reading the fan manga and translated stuff I was sent was bad enough.
I will say the not talking thing is an interesting perk IF SHE WAS 18.

The motto for girls should be "You must be this old to ride" not "You must be this tall to ride"


Mecha Hisui
is a robot
Sadly I strongly disapprove of this character because it doesn't even add any value really, its just a generic robot copy of a better character. No love for you silly generic bitch.
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Unread postby potaatti » June 15th, 2007, 3:34 pm

Uh Oh Yoh wrote:I've never seen a girl with grey eyes before thats a nice quality I'd like to see someday.


Btw, where do you live? At least here in Northern Europe everybody and their dog has grey eyes.

Uh Oh Yoh wrote:Ciel is probably hated for a couple reasons. Personally I always almost considered her a boy because of how she acted.


What do you mean? :?




Oh, and I agree about Len.
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Unread postby Uh Oh Yoh » June 15th, 2007, 8:17 pm

About Ciel
Well if you look at the fan manga or the popularity poll they always have some reason to dislike ciel. Usually because of her church origins or because she's stubborn or narrow minded.

Dunno if thats spoiling anything.
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Unread postby Qaenyin Angelblade » June 16th, 2007, 1:30 am

People generally dislike ciel because they find her cruel or insensitive, due to her attempting to kill Shiki, her whole "Cute schoolgirl" charade and her overall self hating and depressed personality.


Though as I've posted before, I don't feel that way.
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