True Ending or Good Ending [Spoilers]

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Unread postby nanaya_shinya » October 15th, 2008, 6:42 am

I agree, I can still recall the endings in my head...
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Unread postby metal_cocoabo » October 15th, 2008, 2:58 pm

-[J1N]- wrote:Good ends are good, you can't put it simpler than that Laughing . I believe 'good' endings are endings where things that couldn't be stopped in the real ending end up happening in the good ending.


So, does that mean story-wise the Good Endings are nothing i.e. happy lies/dreams?? Coz it's kind of depressing when you think about the True endings of each character -- people either leave Shiki forever or die.
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Unread postby Divine » October 15th, 2008, 4:23 pm

Good endings are just that. They deny the existence of loss in a situation where loss is most likely. While they are nice, I do not particularly like them.
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Unread postby Ausdoerrt » October 15th, 2008, 4:34 pm

Good endings are indeed simply "good" endings. The reason why others are called "true" is because that's what would be most likely to happen (except for Akiha's route I guess).
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Unread postby Belzera » October 16th, 2008, 1:16 am

Ausdoerrt wrote:Good endings are indeed simply "good" endings. The reason why others are called "true" is because that's what would be most likely to happen (except for Akiha's route I guess).

Maybe TM was sending a message out in Akiha's route.

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Unread postby Ryougi07 » October 16th, 2008, 4:34 am

Sorry I'm new to this thing, is it still considered incest even if they aren't blood-related? Akiha and Shiki aren't....
It is sad that Akiha's ending were both sad(the one was with hope but still sad)
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Unread postby metal_cocoabo » October 16th, 2008, 4:45 am

I remember some lines in Tsukihime saying that while Akiha and Shiki aren't really blood-related, in the eyes of everyone else, they are. (Something about there being no records of 'Nanaya Shiki' to prove that they aren't related; plus the death of Tohno SHIKI) Though it would make a lot of sense if they ran a blood test...
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Unread postby abscess » October 16th, 2008, 4:51 am

It's pretty clear that everyone outside the Tohno mansion sees them as brother and sister (as in blood-related siblings), except for Ciel, Arcueid and maybe Aoko; I think even Arihiko thinks they are "real" siblings. But in almost every story that there is a brother-sister relationship (as far as I know), they happen to not be blood-related, so, it's nothing really new. Maybe TakaJun can shed some light in the matter, since it's well known he is the guy with the imouto-complex (no offense intended).



Added some spoiler tags. MSG.
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.
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Unread postby Inverted » October 16th, 2008, 6:38 am

Ryougi07 wrote:
It is sad that Akiha's ending were both sad(the one was with hope but still sad)


Akiha's True End has a happy conclusion in Kagetsu Tohya sidestory A Story for the Evening ( A canon story written by Kinoko Nasu) where it is reveled that Shiki is very much alive and was saved by Ciel .
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Unread postby Ausdoerrt » October 16th, 2008, 5:29 pm

Inverted wrote:
Ryougi07 wrote:
It is sad that Akiha's ending were both sad(the one was with hope but still sad)


Akiha's True End has a happy conclusion in Kagetsu Tohya sidestory A Story for the Evening ( A canon story written by Kinoko Nasu) where it is reveled that Shiki is very much alive and was saved by Ciel .


i think you mean normal end

As for "incest is bad" comment, whoever said that... screw you I don't even want to comment.
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Unread postby abscess » October 16th, 2008, 5:40 pm

Added some spoiler tags. MSG.

Err.... I was sure this thread had a spoiler tag in the title since this is about the endings... Anyway:

Ausdoerrt wrote:
Inverted wrote:
Ryougi07 wrote:
It is sad that Akiha's ending were both sad(the one was with hope but still sad)


Akiha's True End has a happy conclusion in Kagetsu Tohya sidestory A Story for the Evening ( A canon story written by Kinoko Nasu) where it is reveled that Shiki is very much alive and was saved by Ciel .


i think you mean normal end

Hmm... no, I think it's actually The normal end where Akiha is like a doll (Distant Reed Warbler) and the True end where Shiki "dies" for Akiha's sake (Warm Afternoon Nap), but it turns out Ciel rescued/revived him in KT's side story. I wonder how it is that Ciel actually saved/revived him, it just seems way to convenient to say "hey! he didn't die after all!".... he pierced a point, right? Wouldn't that be an instant death?
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.
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Unread postby Belzera » October 16th, 2008, 8:05 pm

Its still Incest becuase they think of each other as Brother and Sister, but its not Proper incest
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Unread postby abscess » October 16th, 2008, 8:17 pm

Belzera wrote:Its still Incest becuase they think of each other as Brother and Sister, but its not Proper incest

Hmm... I don't think Akiha thinks of Shiki as her brother; as family, yes, a close member of the family but my guess is she considers him more as a man than any other familial tie. Maybe brother is some sort of title she gave him, though I'm not sure of it...

Shiki.... well, it depends which Shiki we are talking about. I doubt Shiki in Akiha's route thought of Akiha as his sister, more like his relationship with Miyako, technically Myako is (or was) his sister also, but he never felt a real familial bond towards her. In other routes, I guess he des think less of Akiha as a woman and more as a sister.

Anyway, that's my take on the discussion.


Spoiler-tagged, just in case.
Really, this thread should have a spoiler tag in it's title! We are talking, after all, about the endings, and whatever we say is bound to be full of spoilers.
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.
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Unread postby Inverted » October 16th, 2008, 9:26 pm

abscess wrote:
Hmm... no, I think it's actually The normal end where Akiha is like a doll (Distant Reed Warbler) and the True end where Shiki "dies" for Akiha's sake (Warm Afternoon Nap), but it turns out Ciel rescued/revived him in KT's side story. I wonder how it is that Ciel actually saved/revived him, it just seems way to convenient to say "hey! he didn't die after all!".... he pierced a point, right? Wouldn't that be an instant death?


Nah ! He cut of a line near his heart not pierced his point. That could mean all the difference.It's like he ripped out his heart,the possibility of saving still exists.IMO
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Unread postby that one guy » October 16th, 2008, 9:47 pm

Inverted wrote:
abscess wrote:
Hmm... no, I think it's actually The normal end where Akiha is like a doll (Distant Reed Warbler) and the True end where Shiki "dies" for Akiha's sake (Warm Afternoon Nap), but it turns out Ciel rescued/revived him in KT's side story. I wonder how it is that Ciel actually saved/revived him, it just seems way to convenient to say "hey! he didn't die after all!".... he pierced a point, right? Wouldn't that be an instant death?


Nah ! He cut of a line near his heart not pierced his point. That could mean all the difference.It's like he ripped out his heart,the possibility of saving still exists.IMO


I could have sworn he located a point and just stabbed. Then again, it would be like Ciels ending, where he just happened to kill the other part of him, I.E. Akiha's life force, and then just needed to recooperate.
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Unread postby Ausdoerrt » October 17th, 2008, 3:19 am

I say it's some whacky Church magic at work :twisted:

Besides I'm not sure the KT side stories are 100% legit. Like that
twosome scene, that would never happen...
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Unread postby Inverted » October 17th, 2008, 8:18 am

that one guy wrote:
I could have sworn he located a point and just stabbed. Then again, it would be like Ciels ending, where he just happened to kill the other part of him, I.E. Akiha's life force, and then just needed to recooperate.


Well it is given: "My knife cuts through the " line" which would kill me the easiest "


@ Ausdoerrt: Not all of them are yes , but some like "Red Demon God" , "A Story for the Evening " are.There were two more canon ones too .
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Unread postby nanaya_shinya » October 17th, 2008, 11:31 am

Ahhh.... Red Demon God, the story of Nanaya Kiri (Shiki's biological father) and Kishima Kouma
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Unread postby metal_cocoabo » October 17th, 2008, 2:37 pm

Aren't those side stories considered to be dreams, at least in Shiki's case, or are those events considered canon? IIRC, at least the Flower of Thanatos is just dream...
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Unread postby abscess » October 17th, 2008, 11:11 pm

I don't know if it has ever been explicitly said by Nasu or someone from Type-Moon which are and which aren't, but there are some that do give an insight into undisclosed information anywhere else, such as Seven's (Nanako for some) and Arihiko's past, Kiri's desire to not bring up Shiki (or something like that) into a family of assassins and Ciel's apparent ability of reviving people with a cut line, etc., those haven't been proved wrong when comparing it with known information and actually seem to fit just nice in the Nasu-verse.

Ciel Sensei's story is just for fun, as is the threesome dream.... *drools* ....hmmm.... moving on...! The ones that aren't written by Nasu (like the sidestory about the girl that got munched by Nero) are most likely that, fanfiction.


But.... seriously... someone please put a spoiler sign in the thread's title...
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.
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