[Spoiler] Ciel True Ending

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[Spoiler] Ciel True Ending

Unread postby darckense » April 24th, 2007, 7:38 am

Hi all,

I've finished both Arcueid and Ciel True and Good ending, and I'm currently in Akiha's route.
I did'nt understood something about Ciel True Ending, and since I did'nt finish all the game, I don't want to look to much into the "massive spoilers" post... :-)

In Ciel True Ending, Shiki kill himself to get rid of Roa, right ? So, in the epilogue, was he dreaming just before his death or was he saved by Ciel ?
Because, if he is'nt dreaming, I understood that Shiki'll continue his live with Ciel, it's sort of a good ending for me... (ok, it's different from the harem like Good Ending with Ciel and Arcueid, but..)
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Unread postby Sparky » April 24th, 2007, 7:50 am

The best way to describe it IMO, is he was looking inwards into himself to find the very essence ( and ultimately death of ) ROA. The end of ROA does not neccessarily mean the end of Shiki, as they exist as seperate entities.

That is also, if I remember right, why there was so much talk about the pounding headache he was enduring. If he had been viewing his own end, it would be very simple as he is human. But he was viewing something that, while having life, was not tangable ( ROA's Soul/essence )which put it on the level of inanimate objects as far as complexity to view death goes. Probably higher, I am surprised he didn't explode his head.

Thus, gg pwnt ROA = Happily ever after Shiki.

Though he probably thought he was going to die since he was driving a knife into his own chest, and may have even thought that he was stabbing his own point. That proved to not be the case though.

I don't want to discuss Ciel's capabilities of healing. Don't ask why.
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Unread postby miszou » April 24th, 2007, 7:56 am

In short, Shiki didn't killed him self, but ROA. So he never died :]

For some reason the True ending was too happy here XD I wonder why?
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Unread postby darckense » April 24th, 2007, 10:15 am

OK, so my first guess was right.
Thanks. :wink:

Indeed, it's quite an happy end for a True Ending, Arcueid's True Ending is far worst... :roll:

By the way, when Shiki kills Roa, does Ciel also losts her supernaturals abilities and became humans ?
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Unread postby miszou » April 24th, 2007, 1:02 pm

As I believed Ciel's body it self was capable of superhuman strenght, not because of ROA (ROA was quite surprised at how string her body was). But she should be able to die now, since as long as ROA exist, it is impossible for her to die.

So she should be able to die, but she should still have capacities beyond human powers. At least this was how I think it went XD
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Unread postby potaatti » April 25th, 2007, 11:57 am

Yeah, Ciel's true end was more like a happy ending than a sad one. Even Arcueid didn't die but merely took some damage (which she likely will regenerate).

Btw, I wonder why Ciel was so eager to pick up a fight with Arcueid..

miszou wrote:As I believed Ciel's body it self was capable of superhuman strenght, not because of ROA (ROA was quite surprised at how string her body was). But she should be able to die now, since as long as ROA exist, it is impossible for her to die.

So she should be able to die, but she should still have capacities beyond human powers. At least this was how I think it went XD


So Ciel's body was capable of superhuman strength? Wouldn't her parents (and classmates, etc.) have been pretty confused back in her childhood? :D
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Unread postby Sparky » April 25th, 2007, 2:26 pm

It could be an unexpected side effect of ROA's former presence, much like her being unable to die.
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Unread postby miszou » April 25th, 2007, 4:15 pm

potaatti wrote:
So Ciel's body was capable of superhuman strength? Wouldn't her parents (and classmates, etc.) have been pretty confused back in her childhood? :D


I believed something like that was said, but since my memory is fuzzy, I might have changed the interpretation ;) But if her body is cable of it, doesn't mean she could use it. ROA might pushed those powers or something. But I do remember that ROA was never as strong as when within Ciel, due to Ciels incredible strong body. Of course that might also mean that her body just could take a lot.

Arg, now I want to play it again to know for sure XD I might do that when I get back from Japan, anybody with a more fresh memory remembers it?
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Unread postby Apple » April 25th, 2007, 5:48 pm

miszou wrote:anybody with a more fresh memory remembers it?

I just finished ciels route, so i'm guessing i have fresh memory :S

Roa didnt know about how strong ciel was when he(it?) took her body, when he got inside her he added it to his list of "things my next host needs". Thats why SHIKI was chosen, cuz he had the eye thing.

The superhuman power of healing/not dying was because roa wasnt dead (the paradox-thingy), or maybe its a vampiric thing...
Ciel killed her parents as soon as SHIKI came up, if she didnt show her powers before that they'd have no clue about it.

In the true ending, pretty much everything (waking up in the hospital, going to school and seeing the boy in the garden) was a dream just after stabbing himself with the knife. Roa was teasing him a little so that they'd both die or something like that. when ciel's face is seen, Shiki is awake.

Both endings feel like "good" endings, but I can see the difference... ofc Arc isnt with him. Because its Ciels route, thats all Shiki gets :)

The only thing about Ciels route I dont really understand is how she is 24 years old (16 when arc killed her, which was 8 years before the story) and a high school student. is that possible? did she use her powers of suggestion?

Hang on... 8 years? Does that mean as soon as Ciel was killed, SHIKI turned and killed Shiki? I thought he had to be born into a baby and then wait a little?
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Unread postby potaatti » April 25th, 2007, 6:43 pm

Apple wrote:The only thing about Ciels route I dont really understand is how she is 24 years old (16 when arc killed her, which was 8 years before the story) and a high school student. is that possible? did she use her powers of suggestion?


IIRC she didn't get older due to her weird condition.
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Unread postby darckense » April 26th, 2007, 3:30 pm

Apple wrote:
miszou wrote:anybody with a more fresh memory remembers it?

Hang on... 8 years? Does that mean as soon as Ciel was killed, SHIKI turned and killed Shiki? I thought he had to be born into a baby and then wait a little?


Well, this was the case with Ciel...
Hmm... looks like there an incoherence here, or I did'nt get a point... :?
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Unread postby WanderingShell » May 3rd, 2007, 7:01 pm

Apple wrote:
miszou wrote:anybody with a more fresh memory remembers it?

Hang on... 8 years? Does that mean as soon as Ciel was killed, SHIKI turned and killed Shiki? I thought he had to be born into a baby and then wait a little?

now u said it,theres sumthing wrong with this,Michael Roa Valdamjong on can reincarnate only if his host is killed and possesed sum1 who doesnt born yet isnt? but im also not sure how long since Ciel been killed by Arc when she still a Roa
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Unread postby D3STRUCTOR » May 3rd, 2007, 11:04 pm

there was another thing I have been wondering about. Roa reincarnates by marking his next host body while he is alive and than posessing them when they have matured. where does he get this information, and what if he was killed before he could marke another host. of course i could have misinterpreted this whole think but it is just something that has been nagging at the back of my head for a while.
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Unread postby WanderingShell » May 4th, 2007, 6:22 am

D3STRUCTOR wrote: what if he was killed before he could marke another host.

lol,he cant die,at least at normal way :lol: lets say roughly he turned into soul mode after his host hv been killed
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Unread postby A.R.C.C. » June 10th, 2007, 12:27 am

miszou wrote:As I believed Ciel's body it self was capable of superhuman strenght, not because of ROA (ROA was quite surprised at how string her body was). But she should be able to die now, since as long as ROA exist, it is impossible for her to die.

So she should be able to die, but she should still have capacities beyond human powers. At least this was how I think it went XD


I just finished it last night. It's not so much that Ciel was born with amazing powers, but rather the potential. It said something about Ciel having more magic circuits than any human Roa had ever encountered or something along those lines. I believe the idea was that if she could utilize those, she could easily reach a level of ability comparable to a high-level vampire or a heroic spirit. She could move as fast as Arcueid and fought her to a near stalemate her several times, though she couldn't compete with Arc's ability to draw from a perpetual well of energy at night. Arc is the strongest of the True Ancestors, so that makes me wonder if Ciel just might be a more powerful sorcerer than any living magus. It would explain quite a lot if Arcueid's personal grudge against Ciel is because she was very nearly destroyed when Roa was backing her.

D3STRUCTOR wrote:there was another thing I have been wondering about. Roa reincarnates by marking his next host body while he is alive and than posessing them when they have matured. where does he get this information, and what if he was killed before he could marke another host. of course i could have misinterpreted this whole think but it is just something that has been nagging at the back of my head for a while.


This much I remember quite clearly. Roa never marked Ciel; Arcueid killed his previous incarnation before he could find an appropriate host. Somehow his essence "defaulted" onto Ciel, possibly due to her high but untapped magic potential. Roa was surprised, since Ceil was definitely powerful, but he would never normally have chosen her because her family had no political influence. As for the transfer 8 years ago, when Arc killed Ceil Roa moved into his chosen host Tohno SHIKI, but he again didn't anticipate what sort of body he'd been reincarnated into. The splitting of Tohno's mind and body caused Tohno's original self to lose control over his nonhuman half. He went berserk before he reached maturity, long before Roa would have chosen to take over. This resulted in the fight between the "brothers," and as they say, the rest is history.
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Unread postby potaatti » June 10th, 2007, 8:40 am

A.R.C.C. wrote:She could move as fast as Arcueid and fought her to a near stalemate her several times, though she couldn't compete with Arc's ability to draw from a perpetual well of energy at night. Arc is the strongest of the True Ancestors, so that makes me wonder if Ciel just might be a more powerful sorcerer than any living magus. It would explain quite a lot if Arcueid's personal grudge against Ciel is because she was very nearly destroyed when Roa was backing her.


You know, Arcueid was in weakened state during Tsukihime. Normally Ciel would have got owned pretty badly. :P
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Unread postby JimmyT64 » September 9th, 2007, 6:59 pm

And, indeed, does. No actual fight between Arc and Ciel ends well for Ciel.

And she's not as fast as Arc - she simply plays the defensive game, trying to get her to wear herself out, I think. At least, thats how I saw it....

However, the whole 8 years thing is very confusing - I was almost certain Roa had to possess someone while they were still in the womb, and that he chose bloodlines, not specific people, to possess. I think I was probably wrong, though....
Tsukihime drinking game. 1. Every time a word or a phrase is repeated 3 or more times, take a drink (eg. This chair).
2. Every time Shiki claims not to understand something already explained, take a drink
3. Every time Shiki doesn't realize someone is hitting on him, take a drink.
4. Every time someone who should be dead, isn't, take a drink.
5. Every time Shiki does something ridiculous with points\lines.
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Unread postby miszou » September 9th, 2007, 7:49 pm

JimmyT64 wrote:.

However, the whole 8 years thing is very confusing - I was almost certain Roa had to possess someone while they were still in the womb, and that he chose bloodlines, not specific people, to possess. I think I was probably wrong, though....


yes I couldn't quite figure out that too, it does't seem to make sense with things earlier said. But maybe it is possible to get into someone at an later stage, although, not sure.
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