Newbie questions, please humor me

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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Message » April 29th, 2013, 2:37 pm

Zogundar wrote:Hmm, I see.. I think. The game doesn't have its own actual .exe file? Or is it a function of the translation.. stuff?

Jap Tsukihime runs on NScripter, but that doesn't support English very well. That's why we use ONScripter-En. It's the same thing, only better for English. So yeah, Tsukihime doesn't have its "own" exe file. It never had.

Zogundar wrote:How much detail does the Readme go into about the music replacement? (Also I can't make a decision if it's an either/or thing, which one do I want??)

Detail enough if you take the time to read it, I guess. But basically:
1) Rip the music to .ogg (.mp3 will also work, if you're going to upgrade to the latest ONScripter-En)
2) Rename the files to Track01.ogg through Track10.ogg (or .mp3)
3) Create a directory called "CD" in your game directory
4) Move the ogg files to that CD directory.
I just found this on google, in contains our instructions, and a nice visual guide: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=4907

As for either/or, they are all the same tunes/songs as the original game, only with different arrangements/instruments. I prefer EVER AFTER over the Tsukibako version, because it is less monotonous and more atmospheric. My recommendation: Use tracks 01 through 09 from EVER AFTER. Use track 10 from the original game. (EVER AFTER does not have this track, but it's only played once so the original is good enough.)
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Zogundar » April 29th, 2013, 9:40 pm

Message wrote:Detail enough if you take the time to read it, I guess. But basically:
1) Rip the music to .ogg (.mp3 will also work, if you're going to upgrade to the latest ONScripter-En)
2) Rename the files to Track01.ogg through Track10.ogg (or .mp3)
3) Create a directory called "CD" in your game directory
4) Move the ogg files to that CD directory.
I just found this on google, in contains our instructions, and a nice visual guide: http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=4907
Sorry, I don't have a readme because I haven't actually downloaded anything yet. :oops:
I wanted to know what I was doing before I set aside time to make it all work (Or try.)

So.. complicated.. :cry:

After I'm done they're going to release the re-release and it will be a simple version. I just know it.

As for either/or, they are all the same tunes/songs as the original game, only with different arrangements/instruments. I prefer EVER AFTER over the Tsukibako version, because it is less monotonous and more atmospheric. My recommendation: Use tracks 01 through 09 from EVER AFTER. Use track 10 from the original game. (EVER AFTER does not have this track, but it's only played once so the original is good enough.)

What do you mean by "atmospheric"? And why not use Tsukibako's track 10?
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Message » April 30th, 2013, 11:41 am

Zogundar wrote:What do you mean by "atmospheric"? And why not use Tsukibako's track 10?

I don't know how Tsukibako's track 10 sounds exactly, but it'll probably be a bit higher quality than the original game's track 10. But you'd need to find a copy of Tsukibako for that, and it's very rare.

With atmospheric I mean it has more feeling, so it improves the atmosphere of the game (in my opinion).
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Zogundar » April 30th, 2013, 8:25 pm

Well if it's so hard to find Tsukibako, I guess that makes the choice simpler.

Also I'm afraid to google it, but what's the kanji for Tsukibako, if you know? I could guess its meaning at a glance but with Japanese you really need kanji to know for sure.

Also it just now sunk in - only 9 tracks for most of the game?! Good god that is a small number for a VN (Not that I'm an expert with only maybe 4 under my belt.) Maybe it was normal for it's contemporaries I dunno. I think 2004 is the oldest vintage I've done (F/sn and Planetarian.)

All right, I think I'm going to take a crack at this today. See if I can't have something to read again. I'll be back to ask you how to decompile the matrixes after it blows up. :P
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Yoten » April 30th, 2013, 9:38 pm

Zogundar wrote:Also I'm afraid to google it, but what's the kanji for Tsukibako, if you know? I could guess its meaning at a glance but with Japanese you really need kanji to know for sure.

Tsukibako = つきばこ = 月箱

Here's a link with a lot of pictures of what the box looks like.

Also it just now sunk in - only 9 tracks for most of the game?! Good god that is a small number for a VN (Not that I'm an expert with only maybe 4 under my belt.) Maybe it was normal for it's contemporaries I dunno. I think 2004 is the oldest vintage I've done (F/sn and Planetarian.)

Keep in mind that Tsukihime came out when Type-Moon was still just a doujin software circle. Think a handful of guys working in their garages, except being Japan I'd bet they didn't even have garages. F/SN was their first commercial release after they struck paydirt and became a professional game company. It had many, many more resources to throw into art, music, etc.
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Zogundar » April 30th, 2013, 9:47 pm

Yoten wrote:Tsukibako = つきばこ = 月箱

So it was moon box (Or "Lunar" if you want to be @^-^--\\\_f_a_n_c_y_///--^-^@) That's what I figured, but..

Keep in mind that Tsukihime came out when Type-Moon was still just a doujin software circle. Think a handful of guys working in their garages, except being Japan I'd bet they didn't even have garages. F/SN was their first commercial release after they struck paydirt and became a professional game company. It had many, many more resources to throw into art, music, etc.

Interesting. So Tsukihime was the "paydirt" release? (I don't know of anything else in between the two, or before Tsukihime for that matter.)
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Yoten » April 30th, 2013, 10:05 pm

Zogundar wrote:So Tsukihime was the "paydirt" release? (I don't know of anything else in between the two, or before Tsukihime for that matter.)

It's what made them famous, yes.
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Zogundar » April 30th, 2013, 10:52 pm

Okay I've got the game installed, but two questions remain thus far, no wait three, wait, four! Let's see if I remember all of them!

1) So when the game first starts, there don't seem to be any controls and the text moves by itself. It.. it's not always going to move automatically, is it? I thought I read that pressing '1,' '2,' or '3' would control text speed but that seemed to not affect it. Is this just an Opening Thing? I don't want the text to move automatically! (Sometimes I space out while reading.)

2) I downloaded the new Onscripter thing, but um.. there doesn't seem to be an onscripter.exe file for it to replace in the Tsukihime directory? It seems to be working fine as is (Unless I was supposed to be able to push buttons and do things in the opening) so I don't know if it's necessary but I'm confused all the same.

3) From what I've read so far it sounds like you can do most or even all of the routes in any order rather than having to unlock later ones? (The readme even said something about "don't do the Archhhh umm.. the Arc route last if you've watched the anime," suggesting that it's possible to do the route you're supposed to do first, last! Is it really so simple to do the right route in the right order? I don't trust myself to not muck it up. How big of a spoiler risk do I run by sending the walkthrough, which I'm assuming is a text file, to my Kindle? I've been using it so that I don't have to alt-tab for walkthroughs for the last 3 VN's I used, and the Planetarian walkthrough is very short. ;) The downside is you can't really control the exact lines that appear like you can with say, notepad. So when you hit next page, there might be the next fifty decisions on the screen, and if they're spoilery, whoops

4) Looks like there's only 20 save slots?? How am I going to keep a save for every decision in the game that way?!? You're sure there's no "You've been making the wrong decisions the past twenty decisions, you do not have enough points with the heroine, she kills herself in disgust, and a mechanical Joe Frazier destroys the entire Earth, you suck" bad ends?

It's kinda sad that the last two girls don't even get their own individual pages on the CG screen. :(
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Yoten » April 30th, 2013, 11:29 pm

Zogundar wrote:1) So when the game first starts, there don't seem to be any controls and the text moves by itself. It.. it's not always going to move automatically, is it? I thought I read that pressing '1,' '2,' or '3' would control text speed but that seemed to not affect it. Is this just an Opening Thing? I don't want the text to move automatically! (Sometimes I space out while reading.)

That's just the opening chapter. You can't do anything about it.

2) I downloaded the new Onscripter thing, but um.. there doesn't seem to be an onscripter.exe file for it to replace in the Tsukihime directory? It seems to be working fine as is (Unless I was supposed to be able to push buttons and do things in the opening) so I don't know if it's necessary but I'm confused all the same.

Like Message said, Tsukihime.exe IS Onscripter -- the file is just renamed. You can technically just run Onscripter-en.exe as-is, as long as it's in the Tsukihime main directory, but I think it's more intuitive to replace the old Tsukihime.exe. I'd just rename the old file to something like "Tsukihime_old.exe", and then rename Onscripter to "Tsukihime.exe". If you're going to do it at all, do it now before you start playing the game in earnest. I don't believe that save files are compatible between the two versions.

3) From what I've read so far it sounds like you can do most or even all of the routes in any order rather than having to unlock later ones?

You have to do either (Arc or Ciel) to unlock (Akiha and Hisui). You have to do Hisui to unlock Kohaku.

As for #4, suck it up. :P
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Zogundar » April 30th, 2013, 11:50 pm

Yoten wrote:That's just the opening chapter. You can't do anything about it.

Oh, well as long as it's just that.

Yoten wrote:Like Message said, Tsukihime.exe IS Onscripter -- the file is just renamed. You can technically just run Onscripter-en.exe as-is, as long as it's in the Tsukihime main directory, but I think it's more intuitive to replace the old Tsukihime.exe. I'd just rename the old file to something like "Tsukihime_old.exe", and then rename Onscripter to "Tsukihime.exe". If you're going to do it at all, do it now before you start playing the game in earnest. I don't believe that save files are compatible between the two versions.

Ohhh. Although if I do that, I won't have an .exe with a icon. :( (Yeah I know, that's the most important part while actually playing the game, amirite)

Yoten wrote:You have to do either (Arc or Ciel) to unlock (Akiha and Hisui). You have to do Hisui to unlock Kohaku.

So you COULD screw up and get Ciel, then screw up and get Akiha, then screw up and so on.

Another concern was that the walkthrough (I took a quick peek) says that even using that won't let you see all of the scenes? Does that include CG? Is there any kind of completion meter? Does this predate that kind of convenience? If so, how do you know if you've seen all scenes/if there's anything left?

Yoten wrote:As for #4, suck it up. :P

:(
That only hurts further if you're trying to find every possible scene.
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Message » May 1st, 2013, 10:59 am

Zogundar wrote:Another concern was that the walkthrough (I took a quick peek) says that even using that won't let you see all of the scenes? Does that include CG? Is there any kind of completion meter? Does this predate that kind of convenience? If so, how do you know if you've seen all scenes/if there's anything left?

Of course following the walkthrough you cannot read every scene. You'll be skipping the bad ends, for example! You will miss out on some HCGs (particularly the dream sequences in Arc's route and the glasses/no glasses thing in Ciel's route), but they're boring anyway. I can only say: If you follow the walkthrough, you'll get the entire story, as much of the game's scenes as possible, and the endings. You'll miss Ciel-sensei's lessons, the bad ends, and some minor scenes here and there (usually less than 10 lines of text) that don't affect the story in any way.
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Zogundar » May 1st, 2013, 5:21 pm

Read the prologue, left off at the start of the first day screen thing.

Oh wow, you can actually miss H-scenes in this? That's new.

"glasses/no glasses thing"? (NO, don't tell me, you've already said too much!)

missing bad ends sounds okay (Though missing the Lessons sounds less okay)

still, only 20 save slots.. (Unless I start moving them into new folders which might get Crazy, especially since it seems you can't label anything.

How does skipping scenes you've already seen work? (And does it work well, or poorly?) I think F/sn had some parts where it didn't skip over stuff that I'd swear I'd already seen (Maybe there were a couple of minor changes, I dunno.)

I guess there's no completion meter other than seeing what CG's you've unlocked? (And even then presumably you can have missed stuff.)
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Message » May 1st, 2013, 7:45 pm

Zogundar wrote:How does skipping scenes you've already seen work?

It skips scenes you've already seen. How about you try it?

Zogundar wrote:I guess there's no completion meter other than seeing what CG's you've unlocked?

If you can't find it, it probably doesn't exist in the game...
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Zogundar » May 1st, 2013, 8:32 pm

Message wrote:It skips scenes you've already seen. How about you try it?

I guess I meant, was it like a high-speed text skip, or does it ask you if you want to see the next scene like F/sn and thus bypasses scenes completely? I don't have much to skip over yet!

Just trying to figure out how I'm going to go about this..

Message wrote:If you can't find it, it probably doesn't exist in the game...

Huh?
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Zogundar » May 2nd, 2013, 12:12 am

Oh and another one that's been bugging me, how do you pronounce "Arcueid"?(sp?)

And assuming it's not a spoiler somehow, it probably wouldn't hurt to know if this takes place in the same universe as Fate sooner rather than later. Unless it would.
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Yoten » May 2nd, 2013, 3:52 pm

Zogundar wrote:Oh and another one that's been bugging me, how do you pronounce "Arcueid"?(sp?)

And assuming it's not a spoiler somehow, it probably wouldn't hurt to know if this takes place in the same universe as Fate sooner rather than later. Unless it would.


Ar-koo-ayd

As far as I know, all Type-Moon series take place in the same universe (i.e. the Nasuverse). You'll find plenty of cross-references between Tsukihime, F/SN, Kara no Kyoukai, etc.
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Zogundar » May 2nd, 2013, 6:04 pm

Yoten wrote:Kara no Kyoukai, etc.

Aw crap, I thought that at least was its own thing. Do I need to watch all of those movies (I think those are movies) before I watch Carnival Phantasm too? That's partly why I'm reading Tsukihime, so I can watch that properly without Spoilers.

Interesting though. And since Mirror Moon also translated F/sn can I take that to mean..

that when Aoko (I think that was her name, the red haired lady in the intro) says she's a "sorceress," and not just a wizard/mage/whatever the other one was, that's a BigMcLargeHuge deal? I believe it was said early on in F/sn that there were only five sorcerers.
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Message » May 2nd, 2013, 7:58 pm

Actually, the worlds of Tsukihime and F/sn cannot exist together in their natural states. Only through the use of extra-universal bridges (i.e. Ahnenerbe, Carnival Moment, etc...) can people from the different TYPE-MOON sub-universes meet each other. But this is an different topic altogether, and the discussion becomes so meta that it cannot make any sense even if you'd believe in the TYPE-MOON universe.. So let's stop it here. >_>

Zogundar, if you want to make some sense of the TYPE-MOON universe, you either need to read the entire TYPE-MOON Wiki and get spoiled to death, or just play the games and watch the animations. Don't worry about the perfect order, each work is enjoyable in its own right.


(But of course everyone knows Tsukihime >>>> F/sn.)
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Zogundar » May 2nd, 2013, 8:09 pm

Okay, to [try] make things as simple as possible, then..

In other words, they're not all in the same universe with the same rules for magic or whatever. The crossovers are not crossovers between an original and its spinoff so much as a crossover between an entirely different universe, like Marvel Vs. DC or Star Trek Vs. Robocop. Therefore, I should disregard F/sn and its universe's workings while reading?

Yoten wrote:Ar-koo-ayd

TY BTW.

Read a bit more last night (Note: I am a horribly slow reader, I will probably take five months or more to finish.)
I uh, noticed a rather.. annoying... problem..
so.. it seems you can't uh... save the game.. when a choice comes up. You know, one of the times it's most important to save the game.
(I don't suppose there's an onscripter workaround thingy that let's you forcibly bring up the menu)
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Message » May 2nd, 2013, 10:00 pm

You could say that, I guess. It's mostly up to personal interpretation, because there's so much TYPE-MOON material that the borders are rather blurry. But I would indeed suggest to ignore F/sn when reading Tsukihime. The stories are very different. Also, Tsukihime was created first, so while F/sn could borrow from Tsukihime lore, the reverse is obviously not possible.

Indeed it's not possible to save at choice points. Use the 'skip scenes previously read' option to quickly return to a certain choice point in the game. Simply write down the choices you make.
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