Newbie questions, please humor me

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Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Zogundar » April 14th, 2013, 5:05 am

1. Is there a spoiler-free walkthrough? I don't even like to read plot outlines. I barely even know what this is about. I'd rather let the VN correct any points that I'm not clear on when I read it instead of being told in advance by a walkthrough (And just not using a walkthrough is not something I'm big on.)

2. Is there a general "preferred" or linear 1->-2->3 etc. progression to do the routes in? I don't like to think for myself or have to make any decisions if you can't tell. :P
If there is no linear progression, then I guess doing things from worst->best (Saving the best for last and all that.) would be the next priority.
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Yoten » April 14th, 2013, 5:25 am

You don't need a walkthrough for the game. As long as you generally choose all options related to the current route's heroine, it's basically impossible to get lost in the game. If you encounter a Dead End, just go back to the previous choice and choose the other option. This tends to go for the alternate endings, too -- once you get their first ending, a new option appears somewhere near the end of their route that leads to the other one.

Arcueid --> Ciel --> Ahika --> Hisui --> Kohaku
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Zogundar » April 14th, 2013, 5:38 am

Yoten wrote:You don't need a walkthrough for the game. As long as you generally choose all options related to the current route's heroine, it's basically impossible to get lost in the game. If you encounter a Dead End, just go back to the previous choice and choose the other option.
But I'm trying to skip thooose. :P I know in FSN you can pick a choice, read for a half hour and then ooops, you just wasted a half hour reading, you died. It'd be another thing if all dead ends took no more than a few minutes for you to learn you picked the wrong choice.

Yoten wrote:This tends to go for the alternate endings, too -- once you get their first ending, a new option appears somewhere near the end of their route that leads to the other one.
Could you clarify? I guess I would prefer to see the "bad" ending first so that I can end on a positive note instead of a downer. I don't want the last thing I read to be a bad ending (Thanks a lot, Katawa Shoujo, and FSN too actually.) How many of these "alternate" endings are there? Are they the "good" endings or the "bad" endings? (Neutral?)

Yoten wrote:Arcueid --> Ciel --> Ahika --> Hisui --> Kohaku
Is this your suggested order, or a mandatory one? If the former, what are you basing it on?

I just like to have a Plan all laid out ahead of time, so there are no crazy surprises (Well, plot related ones are okay.) I don't want to be on the internet reading how I messed up and what I have to do to get the intended effect when I could be reading instead. :)
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Yoten » April 14th, 2013, 6:19 am

Zogundar wrote:
Yoten wrote:You don't need a walkthrough for the game. As long as you generally choose all options related to the current route's heroine, it's basically impossible to get lost in the game. If you encounter a Dead End, just go back to the previous choice and choose the other option.
But I'm trying to skip thooose. :P I know in FSN you can pick a choice, read for a half hour and then ooops, you just wasted a half hour reading, you died. It'd be another thing if all dead ends took no more than a few minutes for you to learn you picked the wrong choice.


That's how it is in Tsukihime. Every Dead End is pretty much immediate, so you hardly waste any time at all.

Yoten wrote:This tends to go for the alternate endings, too -- once you get their first ending, a new option appears somewhere near the end of their route that leads to the other one.
Could you clarify? I guess I would prefer to see the "bad" ending first so that I can end on a positive note instead of a downer. I don't want the last thing I read to be a bad ending (Thanks a lot, Katawa Shoujo, and FSN too actually.) How many of these "alternate" endings are there? Are they the "good" endings or the "bad" endings? (Neutral?)


You get the "true" endings first. The alternate endings are the "good" endings. Everyone has two endings except for Kohaku, who just has one.

Yoten wrote:Arcueid --> Ciel --> Ahika --> Hisui --> Kohaku
Is this your suggested order, or a mandatory one? If the former, what are you basing it on?

I just like to have a Plan all laid out ahead of time, so there are no crazy surprises (Well, plot related ones are okay.) I don't want to be on the internet reading how I messed up and what I have to do to get the intended effect when I could be reading instead. :)


Supposedly recommended by Type-Moon. It's a good idea too, since you finish all of the "Near side" (arc/ciel) storyline before moving on to the "Far side" (everyone else) story, and the character order works well for establishing basic knowledge of the game's world and then expanding upon it.

But honestly, you're making way too big of a deal about this. I get that you seem to have some crazy OCD going on, but Tsukihime's a lot less complex than FSN so there's much less to worry about.
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Zogundar » April 14th, 2013, 8:02 pm

Yoten wrote:That's how it is in Tsukihime. Every Dead End is pretty much immediate, so you hardly waste any time at all.
Hmm..

Yoten wrote:You get the "true" endings first. The alternate endings are the "good" endings. Everyone has two endings except for Kohaku, who just has one.
Does that have the same meaning of "True" as it did in Fate where good = normal, normal = bad, and true = good/canon ending? I guess the shorter question is, which is the TRUE true ending? :P

Yoten wrote:Supposedly recommended by Type-Moon. It's a good idea too, since you finish all of the "Near side" (arc/ciel) storyline before moving on to the "Far side" (everyone else) story, and the character order works well for establishing basic knowledge of the game's world and then expanding upon it.
Near.. and.. far? I guess I'll find out.

Is Kohaku's ending the Final Real True Canon Conclusion To Everything? (At least in vanilla, I started reading about expansions and such and my eyes just sort of glazed over and I said "forget it.") Really the point of all of this for me is to know this story before watching Carnival Phantasm. :lol:

Yoten wrote:I get that you seem to have some crazy OCD going on,
That sounds about right. :P

Yoten wrote:but Tsukihime's a lot less complex than FSN so there's much less to worry about.
hmmmmm I dunnooooo...
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Message » April 15th, 2013, 10:53 am

Tsukihime is actually more complex than F/sn, script-wise. If you want to know exactly how the game behaves, read the flowchart that ships with our translation. If you just want a list of options to choose to get to the ending as fast as possible, read the walkthrough that ships with our translation (both contain spoilers only in the sense of telling you exactly which option appear in the game).

Arc and Ciel routes are called the near side of the moon, Akiha, Hisui and Kohaku routes are the far side of the moon. Just a terminology thing, type-moon wiki probably knows where it originated.

The Arc, Ciel, Akiha, Hisui, Kohaku order is recommended by TYPE-MOON and by us as well. The story works best in that order.

The true endings are called the true endings for a reason. The good endings are just there to make it more fun. You can choose which one you like more. Both the true and good endings are enjoyable, I strongly recommend you read both. The Kohaku ending is indeed the final ending of the Tsukihime story. Read it last. And after that read the epilogue, obviously.

The expansions you mention are probably Kagetsu Tohya and the other side stories. You can read them for fun, they're not very serious at all. Except maybe Alliance of Illusionary Eyes, which is a good read imho.
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Yoten » April 15th, 2013, 10:29 pm

Message wrote:Tsukihime is actually more complex than F/sn, script-wise. If you want to know exactly how the game behaves, read the flowchart that ships with our translation. If you just want a list of options to choose to get to the ending as fast as possible, read the walkthrough that ships with our translation (both contain spoilers only in the sense of telling you exactly which option appear in the game).


True, it may be more complex script-wise, but it doesn't have as many of the "traps" that Zogundar seems to be worrying about.

I personally think that even seeing the decision choices in the flowchart/walkthrough is too spoilery, which was why I wasn't recommending it, but it's the best/only option there is. Now, for Kagetsu Tohya, the flowchart is a MUST. :P
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Kid-Wolf » April 16th, 2013, 1:08 am

Well you should go through the dead ends and take Curry-sensei's lessons so that way you'll get an idea how a certain heroine works. That way you get a direction on how to act with any of the heroines. Granted sometimes it's best not to use common sense durng certain scenes since that usually tends to avoid a dead end with this story. Not onyl that but I think fate does that as well during the major fighting scenes though.
- Finding my way through this garden is rather unbearable, but if it is to keep the one I adore company I will endure it for her sake, and her sake alone.
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Yoten » April 16th, 2013, 1:47 am

Kid-Wolf wrote:Granted sometimes it's best not to use common sense durng certain scenes since that usually tends to avoid a dead end with this story.


Herp derp:
Leave the hotel room, what a great idea!
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Zogundar » April 22nd, 2013, 7:48 pm

I know I disappeared for a while, old age suddenly kicked in *snap* just like that, and I needed glasses, so I figured I'd wait until I got those before I started reading this :( (Even though I don't remember having problems with the last thing I read, I know I can no longer comfortably watch subtitled anime without glasses.) I do appreciate the assistance by the way.

Message wrote:Tsukihime is actually more complex than F/sn, script-wise. If you want to know exactly how the game behaves, read the flowchart that ships with our translation. If you just want a list of options to choose to get to the ending as fast as possible, read the walkthrough that ships with our translation (both contain spoilers only in the sense of telling you exactly which option appear in the game).

:/ the FSN walkthrough I read had a neat feature, it only used a one word excerpt from the choice and then numbered it for good measure (Which I think actually was necessary in one case due to a mistake.)

Message wrote:The Arc, Ciel, Akiha, Hisui, Kohaku order is recommended by TYPE-MOON and by us as well. The story works best in that order.

All right, sounds good, I like a consensus.

Message wrote:The true endings are called the true endings for a reason. The good endings are just there to make it more fun. You can choose which one you like more. Both the true and good endings are enjoyable, I strongly recommend you read both. The Kohaku ending is indeed the final ending of the Tsukihime story. Read it last. And after that read the epilogue, obviously.

But if the "good" endings aren't canon doesn't that just make it Weird? I mean getting a below-good-ending ending, like a normal or bad, and then accepting those as Not Good Enough is one thing, but a Good and True ending feel like they're too close to direct competition with each other for which one I should consider Real, even if the latter is technically that. And it seems like it'd be better to read the Good ending first, so as to end on a proper note.

What's the difference between Kohaku's ending and the Epilogue? How do you get the Epilogue? Does it appear normally after finishing Kohaku's ending, or is it like FSN where you have to collect all 40 Tiger Dojo stamps (Which I never did because I didn't know better in time, and even if I had.. they're funny, but they kind of hurt the tone, and now it's a bit overwhelming to go through everything again just to see them..)
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Message » April 23rd, 2013, 6:35 am

Zogundar wrote::/ the FSN walkthrough I read had a neat feature, it only used a one word excerpt from the choice and then numbered it for good measure (Which I think actually was necessary in one case due to a mistake.)

Agreed. I don't think I'll ever get back to change that giant flowchart though. Took way too much time already.

Zogundar wrote:But if the "good" endings aren't canon doesn't that just make it Weird? I mean getting a below-good-ending ending, like a normal or bad, and then accepting those as Not Good Enough is one thing, but a Good and True ending feel like they're too close to direct competition with each other for which one I should consider Real, even if the latter is technically that. And it seems like it'd be better to read the Good ending first, so as to end on a proper note.

Both endings are canon in that they are written by TYPE-MOON. The true ending is the real one, the good ending is for extra enjoyment. If it helps you to sort them out, you can think of the good ending as a what-if scenario. Both endings are good quality, the true endings can be somewhat bitter-sweet, the good endings are typically very 'good'.
In the Arc and Hisui routes you cannot read the good ending without first reading the true ending. Kohaku only has a true ending. So you can only choose what to read first in the Akiha and Ciel routes, and iirc the order doesn't really matter much there. Like I said, you can read both, enjoy both, and prefer one or the other.

Zogundar wrote:What's the difference between Kohaku's ending and the Epilogue? How do you get the Epilogue?

The epilogue is an added option in the main menu that appears after you've cleared all the endings (all 9 of them).
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Zogundar » April 24th, 2013, 3:46 am

So many endings. I wonder if that's why the anime didn't turn out well (Or so I've heard.) A lot of people (Who read the LN first at least) hated the FSN anime for having to divide its attention less than that.

What about the dead ends? How much does it help/hurt to see all of them as you go through? Do they have their own little story arc going on? Do you miss any of the main plot if you don't see some of the dead ends? I think (But don't know for sure, no one answered my question in that forum :( ) that I may have missed some of the plot in FSN by skipping all but 3 of the dead ends.

Another question, I've heard talk about a remake, how likely is it that there's going to be a voiced version coming out within the next 2 years, and I'm shooting myself in the foot for reading it now? (It took me over a hundred hours to not even 100% finish FSN, I'm not doing re-reads of VNs; heck I don't even re-read books.)
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Message » April 24th, 2013, 10:42 am

You don't really need any dead ends. Most of them involve dying horribly or raping someone into pieces. Not important for the overall plot at all, nothing new is introduced there. Apart from the horrible deaths and pieceraping, anyway.

Very little is officially announced regarding the Tsukihime remake. Whether or not there will be voices, I'd say odds are fifty-fifty: Either there will be voices, or there wont. :) I recommend you play the current version if you're interested in Tsukihime right now, because Tsukihime is awesome. I do however also recommend you replace the game music with EVER AFTER or the music from Tsukibako (see the readme). Both are the same music as the original game, but with better instruments (tsukibako) and better arrangement (ever after).
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Zogundar » April 24th, 2013, 10:04 pm

Message wrote:You don't really need any dead ends. Most of them involve dying horribly or raping someone into pieces. Not important for the overall plot at all, nothing new is introduced there. Apart from the horrible deaths and pieceraping, anyway.

But the other poster said something about Curry-sensei and something something..

Message wrote:Very little is officially announced regarding the Tsukihime remake. Whether or not there will be voices, I'd say odds are fifty-fifty: Either there will be voices, or there wont. :)

Argh

Message wrote:I recommend you play the current version if you're interested in Tsukihime right now, because Tsukihime is awesome. I do however also recommend you replace the game music with EVER AFTER or the music from Tsukibako (see the readme). Both are the same music as the original game, but with better instruments (tsukibako) and better arrangement (ever after).

Ughhh technical things, downloading and installing extra things, extra ways to break the game (I don't even know if the base game will work for me.)
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Message » April 25th, 2013, 7:11 am

Ah, good point. Ciel-sensei's lessons are indeed a lot of fun to read! Make sure you get at least a few dead ends here and there, just so you can enjoy a few lessons afterwards. Some of them are quite funny. Note however that there is no bonus material after you finish all of the dead ends, so no stamp collecting in this game.

Speaking of installing extra stuff: Do yourself a favor and replace our ONSCripter.exe with the newest ONScripter-En release after you install the patch. Download from http://unclemion.com/onscripter/
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Zogundar » April 25th, 2013, 7:00 pm

Message wrote:Speaking of installing extra stuff: Do yourself a favor and replace our ONSCripter.exe with the newest ONScripter-En release after you install the patch. Download from http://unclemion.com/onscripter/

What? I'm completely lost now

Why does reading a VN have to be so complicaaaated
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Message » April 26th, 2013, 8:50 am

Just extract ONScripter-En to the game folder, and run ONScripter-En.exe. Nothing complicated about it.

Or just use the one that ships with our translation. Works fine, on most systems.
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Zogundar » April 26th, 2013, 8:42 pm

What am I running it for, what does it even do? Do I need those other things first? Are they a separate process?
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Message » April 28th, 2013, 9:13 am

ONScripter is what the game runs on. You could basically rename it to Tsukihime.exe, if that makes it clearer. The newer versions are much more stable and more compatible with modern Windows versions. Our translation ships with an older version, which probably still works fine, but in some cases it doesn't.
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Re: Newbie questions, please humor me

Unread postby Zogundar » April 28th, 2013, 10:48 pm

Hmm, I see.. I think. The game doesn't have its own actual .exe file? Or is it a function of the translation.. stuff?

How much detail does the Readme go into about the music replacement? (Also I can't make a decision if it's an either/or thing, which one do I want??)
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