Honestly, I don't normally go around making accounts on forums to necro-post a year after its "death," as well as possibly rant/creep people out (on purpose anyway.. Probably?), but in all attempted fairness, I found this very thread twice in the early pages of some Google searches for Tsukihime-related things (first page for at least one, I think). In any case, I started thinking a little too much on Tsukihime and I just had to get this stuff out there, or my mind will never rest (If it does at all, yay nerd OCD).
Message wrote:And in Shiki's fight with Reversed Akiha, the thing that made him win was not his Nanaya blood, but his eyes of death perception. If Akiha had known about that, I'm sure she'd have taken more care to not let him get close and she'd have killed him without any effort at all.
If there was an all-out fight, and both hated each other, and had
to fight to the death in an open environment like outside the school, then yeah, Akiha would most likely obliterate Shiki (if he truly is not guided by "fate" or anything), but I'm not so sure that on that particular fight, even knowing of his eyes she would've been any more cautious. I say this basing it on how it seemed she wasn't really cautious at all, even with SHIKI, letting both of them hide in the classroom(s) without a second thought, and walking right past. She might've been doing that on purpose to lure them out with her super-sensing/vision thing, but I don't know, since I avoided the dead/bad ends of Tsukihime for the most part. She was still pretty unwary considering the weirdness of Shiki cutting her hair a bunch of times earlier. She should've probably known there was some unusual power within him, I think that alone should've made her more cautious, but her lack of combat experience was reflected here I believe, and Nanaya acknowledges this, if I recall correctly. (The fact Akiha wasn't really in her right mind/possessed could've definitely affected her adversely as well.)
Sparky wrote:The question is quite simple, How come Akiha did not go back to normal at the end of her route?
The reasoning is the complicated part. So, the main reason Akiha was "in the red" was because she was sending out too much energy to shiki keeping him alive right? ( I know SHIKI had something to do with it too, but his part was relatively small in comparison to the weight of shiki's life imo ). They even say that the way to save her is basically to take shiki's life drain off of her to make her go back to normal. So technically wouldn't SHIKI's death restore shiki's missing life, and allow Akiha to go back to normal? So why then did that not happen? It's been a while since I played through the Akiha route, but it might come down to who actually killed SHIKI, and I don't remember if he died from the wounds that shiki gave him, or Akiha finishing him off. Akiha finishing him off might sadly be what does it. But I don't feel like playing all the way through currently to find that out, so I thought I would just ask you guys!
Sadly, if it can be pinpointed to akiha killing SHIKI.... then shiki is a retard in that route for hesitating that one second, because that killed the happy ending! I would have liked to have actually seen a happy ending on one of akiha's routes, as much as I do enjoy Bittersweet ones.
Also, a side question! Who do you guys think is the saddest character in the game?
I personally feel SHIKI is the saddest. well, kinda a tie between SHIKI and kohaku really. But I kinda feel for the antaganist, because no matter what, in every ending, he dies alone =*(, and it really isn't his fault, since if it wasn't for Roa, he wouldn't have been so crazy. ( ok debatable based on whether you think roa affected the ammount of "tohno" blood in him ). But still, the guy was locked up after being killed by his father and replaced. His only want was to get his sister back, but was just too damn crazy to do it in any normal sane fashion, mostly because of what kohaku was doing to him ( hence part of why I rate him over her ).
I disagree on SHIKI having little influence on reversing/inverting Akiha (I'm just going to use "reverse/invert" and the like, since I'm not sure what it is right now), I thought he didn't have much to do with it either at first, but she never reverses/inverts like that on any other route it seems, even after the events of Tsukihime/Kohaku's route. He must've done something rather drastic I think, maybe involving blood or something... Anyway, I don't enjoy trying to think about all the "life-sharing/stealing" stuff, as it can get rather complicated imo, but I kinda doubt reversed/inverted Akiha "Plundered" SHIKI, as there is no mention at all, anywhere, of Akiha having Roa in her body even after it all takes place. All I can say without spoilers of something is that Shiki probably would've needed that life SHIKI had stolen, it's in Kagetsu Tohya. Then again, if Shiki dies if you choose to "Keep the promise" then.. I just don't know, dammit.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels for both SHIKI and Roa, SHIKI more so (for now, I don't really see that changing though), I couldn't even imagine being in that guy's shoes, wow... Life would definitely suck hard. It's funny (not really), how nobody is truly
to blame for all of anyone else's problems, except possibly the roots of course. The True Ancestors are to blame for Arcueid sucking Roa's blood not knowing the consequences (or something to that effect, I think), Roa then started "invading" people/Ciel/SHIKI/Shiki out of confusion/desperation (or something like that), Kohaku for inverting SHIKI (poor guy), Makihisa for messing Kohaku up, his ancestors are to blame just as the True Ancestors are to blame for setting in motion something devastating. If Makihisa's ancestors actually meant for the non-human offspring to be born that is, which I think they probably did for power or something, since they didn't seem too concerned about stopping it, if at all. Could be wrong of course..
Still, none of the characters except Shiki ever really seem to sympathize with Roa or SHIKI at all, although more Roa over SHIKI if I recall, and one could say it was more like coming to understand why he was the way he was, I suppose. SHIKI lost everything he ever had, including his mind. Akiha never even tries to stop him with anything but force (that we saw), not that words or hugs would've worked (probably), just saying it's like it never crossed anyone's mind, but it's possible that it might have. In the manga, SHIKI is even more sad of a character as he demonstrates care for his sister and his camaraderie with Shiki.
Also, Shiki's no retard, in fact, Shiki was awesome in Akiha's route, mostly because he was so "real" to me, that's just how I felt though. Yeah, his hesitation wasn't his highest point, but c'mon, he even beats himself up for hesitating to kill Akiha's real brother
, also taking into account that SHIKI might have held the answers to saving Akiha, even if he didn't reveal them, the possibility was still high, as how he reversed/inverted her is still pretty much a mystery as far as I'm concerned. There might've been more, but I forget. Either way, I think we can all forgive him for this... He was only human.
I also see lots of people claiming Akiha has no "good ending" (the majority so far), but that's probably because her end is like Kohaku's, their True Ending is happy. I don't see what's so depressing about Akiha's True Ending at all, she clearly states she knows Shiki is alive at the very end, I doubt she's lying to herself, and the fact there's no body is more evidence in favor of Shiki being alive imo. I mean, what? It's not very logical to think something/someone like Nero came by and consumed his dead body at the start of Akiha's True Ending or something, or that Shiki was really a non-human, and he dissolved when he died ect ect, over the possibility of Shiki being alive somewhere, somehow. That said, her True Ending is my favorite, currently, Kohaku's second, but I'm not sure I like Roa being inside Akiha there, paired with the fact Shiki still has to rely on someone to keep his body functioning, I believe (if the life Akiha was sharing kept him functioning, then Kohaku this time, I think, like I said, not sure on the whole "life-sharing" stuff), and of course, the fact Akiha "lost" makes all the other ends fail in my eyes :evil: . Kohaku's True Ending needed some more implied harem for the Tohno household (Akiha, Shiki, Kohaku, and Hisui, definetly wouldn't be fair to exclude one of the twins, imo), if Akiha wasn't really implying such things at the end of Kohaku's True Ending that is, otherwise, needs more
implied harem if she was :cry: . Also, Ciel's a cheater dammit, 2 happy endings?!
Supplemental.. Thing..?: Upon thinking about it more, I give up, if reversed/inverted Akiha really did "Plunder" SHIKI during her route (maybe she just didn't have enough time to become like SHIKI or something, even though she just stays like that in her Normal End, possibly forever apparently? Better then the alternative I suppose.. Bleh, her Normal Ending was one of the more crappy endings I've seen, I admit), which would suck, it really doesn't look like it did much if she did, it seems, which still makes me think she most likely didn't.. Still, my statements stand either way.
miszou wrote:less sad person in Tsukihime .... Inui? ^^;;;;
btw, most happy ending?? I think any ending with arc :] ...
After learning more about Inui in KT, I'm not sure I can take his happiness at general face value, although he is probably happy, it would be wrong to make that assumption post-KT. (Then again, that post was probably made before KT was played, but eh...) I'm not so sure there's a least sad, known character in Tsukihime's pre-KT characters (ones we actually see, I mean)... I suppose I could see either Inui or Hisui as that person, but it's hard to tell something like that, I think.
I don't really see how Arc's True Ending was happy, maybe
it's somewhat happy for Arc herself, if she really will have pleasant dreams or something (still don't see how that's much of a happy ending overall. She's going to be living in a damn dream, either forever, or she would only be able to dream of Shiki, but never meet him again... That is, if I remember/interpreted her True Ending correctly).. Her Good Ending also seemed kinda fake/tacked on to me as well, just how seemingly random it was for her to suddenly choose or be able to stay with Shiki and all.. Just my opinion..
As long as I'm talking about the endings, I also really didn't like Hisui's True Ending, not only because of Akiha's fate, but also because Kohaku lays that mega guilt-trip on Shiki with her little, "Oh hi, you have severe memory issues from your childhood and even "died" once, but because you couldn't remember 2 identical twins and their eye colors, I killed everyone including myself, have a nice life." That wasn't really needed... I mean, I see the significance to set the stage for her route and all, but it still was pretty lame imo.
Hisui's constant absence during Kohaku's ending was also kind of disturbing.. If she's drugged by Kohaku or asleep or something then I suppose that's forgivable, but some things are kind of odd in her devotion to her sister's schemes... Especially since I'm fairly sure she knows exactly what's going on, aside from Akiha telling her to keep Kohaku away from Shiki during Kohaku's route and all that. I doubt they really hide anything from each other, since they only really had each other growing up/being twins and all.. Hisui also doesn't even seem to care about her when Akiha dies in Hisui's True Ending either... I like her, but not the part about her that takes a backseat to a lot of things she may have been able to prevent (if she didn't try to at some point "behind the scenes" or something).. I do realize she feels guilty and everything, but still.. It doesn't help anything, because even when Kohaku actually goes through with her plans during the route(s), I think it only made everything worse as the end result, overall..
Sparky wrote:Also Akiha in any of the routes that are not hers is pretty sad as well. She sacrificed a huge part of herself out of love that was never returned, and in some instances to the point of willing madness. Willing to go insane for someone is just :shock: .Though I find it odd how she always calls shiki nii'san no matter what =/
I did wonder if Akiha had not kept everything a secret from the start, if Shiki would've fallen for her canonically (instead of Arc), I think the chances are pretty high that he would've, personally. Though it's no use in saying that, since I'm pretty sure Akiha kicks herself for keeping secrets and lying. If only she knew just how much Shiki was involved from the beginning, and how much he would become involved, she could've probably told him (unless she did know how involved he would become, and just wanted to keep him safe or something, not sure really).. Unless this is one of those things where there's only one type of girl that's always "destined" for the guy, in most cases though, it does usually seem to be the "air-headed" girl in most anime/manga-related things, I believe (unfortunately)... Plus, the name of the game/visual novel is "Tsukihime," after all (Moon Princess, if I'm correct), paired with how the stories in the anime/manga appear to be mostly geared towards Arc as well, it seems :\ (possibly the Melty Blood game(s) as well from what I hear)..
Also, I don't think people can really be "willing" to go insane or mad, lol... If you're referring to Kohaku's route, again, she was also being "possessed," I believe... She calls him "Nii-san" no matter what, because she's trying to keep up the facade (early on)/she got used to it/poor SHIKIx100/he really is her Nii-san, just not blood-related..
Don't really think this is a spoiler for KT, just something I noticed/found funny/interesting, but just incase:
I kind of lol'd at how Akiha and Souka are so similar to Shiki and Arihiko in a lot of ways. As well as Shiki is to Arcueid, as Akiha is to Hanepin.. Damn, why are Shiki and Akiha so made for each other? Sheesh. Only bad thing is if they had a child it would probably be trying to kill itself or something.. Unless the Tohno blood was diluted enough maybe, but that's probably been discussed somewhere..
Hyperbeast wrote:Well as for the part I yelled at the screen at, that would be where Akiha "killed" Kohaku in the school, and regardless of the things Kohaku had done, I really didn't want her to die.
I ended up feeling the most sympathetic to Kohaku of all the characters so far *still haven't done Ciel yet* because of how she is. Her being like a doll and not being happy just made me wish more and more that she would have a happy ending to make up for everything, so when that part came around... I was upset, to say the least.
Well.. Thank god the real ending was adequately happy, although a little strange. I don't think it'd be that easy to make up with someone who tried to kill you >.>
Really late quote (yay, more text), honestly, I gotta join the bandwagon for feeling sorry for Kohaku (though after seeing in detail some of what the church does to Ciel in detail from the manga, I think she may have had it worse, pretty nasty), if only because she doesn't seem to even know what she wants from her future, if she ever even thinks she'll have one.. Her crappy past is another reason, obviously. However, she forgave Akiha because Akiha was "possessed", and she didn't actually want to kill Kohaku, I believe (or anyone for that matter imo), Kohaku even says that Akiha held back or something. The real question is how can Akiha forgive Kohaku for making her real brother insane, and pitting Shiki and Akiha in a fight to the death? (This is interesting though, as she must've had great confidence Shiki would win since she doesn't really want him to die, I'm pretty sure.. Except the weird part of her speech during Hisui's Good Ending I don't know what she would've tried, if anything, had Hisui not stepped in when Kohaku claimed she hated Shiki..) It's true she claims to not be holding any real malice towards anyone, and she claims she doesn't fully know why she does this I think, but it's still pretty hard to swallow when it's all said and done imo (no pun from Hisui's Good Ending intended).
Finally, I might seem to be biased towards Shiki. (I try not be biased towards much of anything, but I suppose I might be driven on an unconscious level or otherwise, to kind of balance what I see as the majority views with a different perspective, so maybe I am, in a way.) A lot of people seem to not care about his hardships and stuff, due to being a harem master, and being surrounded/loved by all those girls ect, losing it/being possessed and whatnot, and/or trying to kill him/make him insane or not. For me though, I really feel for the guy because he seems like a pretty wise and deep guy, and despite his numerous and possibly deadly problems, he maintains a very positive outlook on life, and possibly lives in general, even having eyes that make the life and death of perhaps even the earth itself and most things in it seem so pathetically simple, it's frustrating to him. The fact that he's surrounded/loved by all of those girls is all fine and good, but I'm not entirely sure it's worth it, in exchange for all his bodily problems, and the fact he probably wont even be able to grow old with any of them
(unless they have some kind of power(s)/magic that could keep him alive, but still the same person, it didn't really sound like that in the "Epilogue" though). I don't really see how anyone could blame the guy if he eventually did
sink into despair with that crap alone
\... KT scenarios and general KT weirdness aside.
Anyway, sorry about all of the weird punctuations (though most of those problems are probably from the damn comma splices, or whatever)/parentheses/obsessive-compulsive editing/grammar/spelling/capitalization/spacing/use of slashes (I usually mean and/or by default, when I use them, I think)/various inconsistencies/various consistencies that are annoying, and all of the other possible junk/screw-ups that I forgot to mention, and/or missed, and/or just left out from trying to stop myself from editing my posts more (all of this applies to all of my posts, by the way).
I wish I could say all the editing and stuff makes all of my posts at least near-flawless in correctness (hope I used "correctness" correctly, oh the irony), that I'm actually able to get most of my damn thoughts/afterthoughts conveyed properly (without screwing up what I mean/want to express with the wrong wording, among other things I'm sure, which happens to me a lot), if I'm even able to convey most of my thoughts at all, and that this OCD crap isn't ingrained in me by now, heh.. I'm hardly ever completely sure of anything, as you can see, but very few things are 100% certain in life, compared to those that aren't, I believe, including the views and opinions expressed in my posts, which may or may not change over time (though they probably wont).. However, I felt that I had to add different views to/correct some things said in this topic, rather then just let them die without so much as a single disagreement (I'm pretty sure there were none for most, if not all of them, I can't really remember now though). Things might've also gotten/remained messed up in all of the editing and whatnot too.. Whatever though, I'll try to resist as much as possible from adding/altering/looking at anything more in this forum after I leave this thread, which is in about a couple pages.. Oh, and I'm not really
editing my posts that
many times (again, all of this applies to all of my posts), just more OCD weirdness.. Sigh..
Edit: Alright well, Into the abyss this goes I guess.. I'm out.