Tsukihime Story Discussion - no real spoilers

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Unread postby Message » November 25th, 2006, 5:33 pm

Hyperbeast wrote:Random note: if you do Hisui's story before Akiha's story, you get a special Ciel-Sensei's lesson at one point. Can't remember where though.
It contains dancing.

I don't particularly remember a lessen with dancing, but there are no lessons that are shown conditionally so it shouldn't depend on the order in which you play the routes. ^_^
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Unread postby Question » November 25th, 2006, 5:53 pm

Hyperbeast wrote:Random note: if you do Hisui's story before Akiha's story, you get a special Ciel-Sensei's lesson at one point. Can't remember where though.
It contains dancing.


I definately dont remember this, but then i didnt do it in that order......
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Unread postby Hyperbeast » November 25th, 2006, 6:12 pm

Well it was less dancing and more Neko-Arc carrying on and due to the images changing the way they were it looked like she was dancing.

Well... I assumed it was like that, because I did Hisui's before Akiha's and in the lesson at the "dancing" part, Neko-Arc is saying something along the lines of "Why would you do Hisui before Akiha?! I don't understand! Nyaa, I don't understand!".
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Unread postby Message » November 25th, 2006, 9:31 pm

Hyperbeast wrote:Neko-Arc is saying something along the lines of "Why would you do Hisui before Akiha?! I don't understand! Nyaa, I don't understand!".

That did ring a faint bell somewhere, so I looked it up. It's in s532, the first lesson in the Akiha route:
 さて、三日目の一時間目です。残る授業は秋葉さんだけですねー\
Now, the first period lesson of the third day. The only remaining lessons are about Akiha-san's route.\

「んにゃ? せんせい、どうして秋葉より翡翠の授業の方が早く終わってるの?」
"Nnya? Sensei, why would Hisui's lessons be done before Akiha's?"

 その質問は却下します。
Question denied.

Hisui's lessons are in the 528-531 range while Akiha's are stored in 532-542, so script-wise Akiha's lessons do come after Hisui's. Kohaku's lessons are in 543-544, but they are supplemental lessons. Either way, I can't find any real reason why they would say that ingame, as players never get to see the script numbers in the first place. If someone wants to hazard a guess...
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Unread postby animefanrk2k » November 26th, 2006, 6:14 pm

I'm taking a stab at this one. XD

Well, simply put, Neko-Arc, being the omniscient point of view that she is during Ciel-sensei's lectures, knows the script numbers. It seems that both Ciel-sensei and Neko-Arc know what you did wrong, for the most part, and know how the game works. Hence, Neko-Arc also complains about her lack of appearance in the Far Side of the Moon. *shrugs*

Hopefully, that makes sense. =)
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Unread postby puKKa » December 5th, 2006, 6:43 pm

I was thinking about Shikis and SHIKIS/Roas abilities.
Shiki sees death, does SHIKI see death aswell except that he only sees it on living objects or am I correct if I undertood it that he sees life? As in he sees the life of objects as Ciel explained it with energies of life and how life feeds on life. IMHO this seems reasonable since it can explain why Shiki didnt die from the being stabed by SHIKI, since only his life was destroyed but it could be renewed with the help of Akiha?

I might have missed some info since I havnt played all routes yet so forgive me if it's a stupid question ^__^
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Unread postby Hyperbeast » December 5th, 2006, 10:10 pm

To my understanding, Shiki sees the "death" of things, while Roa/SHIKI sees the "life" of things.
As such, Roa/SHIKI can only see lines on living things, as things such as furniture have no life. I'm not sure why they ended up with different abilities, but as far as I know Shiki is more powerful, as ceasing something's existence *aka death* is more absolute, as something's "life" ending *being cut* is only a small part of death, or something like that.
Kinda confusing, but that's how it was explained to me.
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Unread postby puKKa » December 6th, 2006, 1:17 am

Hyperbeast wrote:To my understanding, Shiki sees the "death" of things, while Roa/SHIKI sees the "life" of things.
As such, Roa/SHIKI can only see lines on living things, as things such as furniture have no life. I'm not sure why they ended up with different abilities, but as far as I know Shiki is more powerful, as ceasing something's existence *aka death* is more absolute, as something's "life" ending *being cut* is only a small part of death, or something like that.
Kinda confusing, but that's how it was explained to me.


Yeah, that's about how I understood it. Why they ended up with different abilities on the other hand I don't really think is strange considering shiki died once and gained his ability while probably SHIKI got it when his inhuman blood overcame him and he killed Shiki. That's at least how I see it..
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Unread postby animefanrk2k » December 6th, 2006, 12:06 pm

SHIKI doesn't see lines. He only sees the dots, that life stealer. XD
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Unread postby Dectilon » December 10th, 2006, 4:17 pm

Message wrote:I do seem to recall saying that you should not post any ending details in this thread.


I'm wondering how people new to the game feel about Satsuki. Love or hate?


I personally like her, being an uncompromising character. She's given into the pain (like most would). The "Id" of a vampire is much stronger than the superego it seems, so it drives her to just take what she wants.

These are supposed to be normal people in abnormal situations, but in the end it seems Satsuki was the only really normal person. She had no powers or blood to begin with, just the random thing that gave her free will from her creator. I honestly think characters in these kind of situations are a little too strong in general. They fight of the vampires gaze, they defy the unnatural Id of the blood, they stand up again after being stabbed in the gut like 2045346 times : P


About Roa's eyes of death, I think it's said in the text that he can see the lines (on living things). It seems more like the other way around to me from what you said animefanrk2k. Stabbing a dot kills instantly, while cutting a line is like cutting butter, no resistance, it just goes clean off.

On the other hand, the writter doesn't even seem convinced himself as he switches this around at times.
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Unread postby animefanrk2k » December 12th, 2006, 12:39 am

Dectilon wrote:I personally like her, being an uncompromising character. She's given into the pain (like most would). The "Id" of a vampire is much stronger than the superego it seems, so it drives her to just take what she wants.

These are supposed to be normal people in abnormal situations, but in the end it seems Satsuki was the only really normal person. She had no powers or blood to begin with, just the random thing that gave her free will from her creator. I honestly think characters in these kind of situations are a little too strong in general. They fight of the vampires gaze, they defy the unnatural Id of the blood, they stand up again after being stabbed in the gut like 2045346 times : P


Agreed. Satsuki is the most character that acts most realistically in the situation. Then again, you have to wonder about her freedom as a vampire. Perhaps there's more to her than meets the eye. o_0

Shiki gets stabbed 2045367 times! XD

Dectilon wrote:About Roa's eyes of death, I think it's said in the text that he can see the lines (on living things). It seems more like the other way around to me from what you said animefanrk2k. Stabbing a dot kills instantly, while cutting a line is like cutting butter, no resistance, it just goes clean off.

On the other hand, the writter doesn't even seem convinced himself as he switches this around at times.


I'm pretty sure Roa/SHIKI's eyes cannot see the death of things like Shiki's can, therefore, they see two different types of dots to begin with. Shiki sees the dot that erases one's existence and the lines to sever the bonds holding that existence together. Roa/SHIKI just doesn't match up to that. I believe Roa/SHIKI punctures Shiki's "dot" at one point, but Shiki doesn't die because he still exists and therefore, even without life, life can be returned to him so he can keep living.

If I'm not mistaken, following Arcueid's route will tell you about Shiki and Roa/SHIKI's difference in ability while you find out about SHIKI's abilities as a part of the Tohno family in the Far Side of the Moon branch. *shrugs*
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Unread postby Question » December 12th, 2006, 5:12 am

I thought SHIKI could only see the lines. Sort of like the Mystic eyes of Life perception.
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Unread postby puKKa » December 12th, 2006, 9:16 pm

Question wrote:I thought SHIKI could only see the lines. Sort of like the Mystic eyes of Life perception.


SHIKI doesnt see lines, he only sees dots as I've understood it.
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Unread postby puKKa » December 14th, 2006, 4:41 am

I've never thought about it before.. but in the anime.. Arcueid runs from Shiki when he tries to kill her. So it makes no sense that she did not defend herself since it wasnt really that much of a suprise attack as it was in the game where he almost instantly killed her the moment she opened the door.
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Unread postby Message » December 14th, 2006, 6:14 am

The anime makes no sense in many ways, that's why so many people hated it.
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Unread postby Question » December 14th, 2006, 5:27 pm

Ive always understood SHIKI to see only the lines......infact i think when SHIKI attacks Shiki in the near side of the moon route......near the mansion i think......its stated there. And SHIKI clearly cant see the dots.
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Unread postby puKKa » December 14th, 2006, 5:51 pm

Quoted from the scene in the hallway in school with SHIKI, Shiki and Arcueid during one of the last days, arc route.
SHIKI wrote:"... Hm? Of course, non-living things don't have any life. Only living things have this 'place' indicating the source of life"


IMHO this clearly states that SHIKI only see dots and no lines. And reading the dialogue once again it pretty much came very clear to me that SHIKI sees life while Shiki sees death. So they don't even see the same dots.
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Unread postby Question » December 16th, 2006, 3:22 pm

I dont think SHIKI can see anything on non-living things at all. He was just making a generalist statement.
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Unread postby puKKa » December 16th, 2006, 3:27 pm

Question wrote:I dont think SHIKI can see anything on non-living things at all. He was just making a generalist statement.


He can't, it's said in the same dialogue.
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Unread postby Question » December 20th, 2006, 7:29 am

Can anyone help me check who's ending is hologram summer?
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